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| Should voting be obligatory? |
| Yes |
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25% |
[ 10 ] |
| No |
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61% |
[ 24 ] |
| Other answer |
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12% |
[ 5 ] |
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| Total Votes : 39 |
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Message |
crackedpleasures
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 14, 2007
Posts: 1689
Location: travelling (currently Berlin, longing for the Middle East)
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 Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:35 pm Post subject: Right to vote -versus- duty to vote |
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I am not sure about the American situation but here in Europe the tendency is that countries allow their citizens to vote without any obligation.
Two EU countries, Belgium and Greece, still have voting duties. Although people failing to show up to vote are rarely punished, there is legal duty to vote for every mature citizen of Belgium and Greece. Other EU countries all use the right to vote without obligations.
I happen to have grown up in one of those two remaining countries obliging to vote, and the debate often re-occurs if the law needs to change.
Proponents of right to vote argue that people without political interest now just vote without knowing the proper agenda of whom they're voting for, vote for the most well-known faces without realising the consequences of their vote, vote randomly just to be out of the voting room as quickly as possibly, or are driven into the arms of far right parties (seeing a vote for them as a protest, while if voting was not obligatory those parties would score much lower because only those interested in politics would bother to vote).
Proponents of the duty to vote say that only by letting everybody vote you can get a proper opinion that represents the entire population, and by forcing people to vote you can make decisions based upon the results reflecting the entire population.
What are your opinions? Should voting be obligatory or should voting be a right rather than a duty?
Also, in the margins of this question:
- should underaged people aged 16 and older have the right to vote, or should voting only be allowed once legal adulthood has been reached ?
- should non-nationals residing in the country be allowed to vote? (here in the EU, European laws say non-nationals of other EU countries are entitled to vote in regional elections, but countries are free to also let non-EU nationals participate if they wish to do so)
- should nationals of a country residing abroad be entitled to vote or should they not be involved with elections of a country they are no longer residing in?
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Orwell
Outer Party Member
Joined: Aug 09, 2007
Age: 18
Posts: 3714
Location: Room 101
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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Right. We should definitely force every philistine with no interest in political affairs and no ability to actually come to an informed decision to participate in national decision-making. 
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WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH |
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 2033
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Orwell wrote: | | Right. We should definitely force every philistine with no interest in political affairs and no ability to actually come to an informed decision to participate in national decision-making. |
The rolley-eyes emoticon is cross-eyed. I am not sure if it's my browser but it makes your comment hysterical.
Edit: Now it looks smug.
Anyways, voting. Hmm. I'm done with voting, so I guess no. 
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I'm no democRAT, I'm a republiCAN! |
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Orwell
Outer Party Member
Joined: Aug 09, 2007
Age: 18
Posts: 3714
Location: Room 101
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| oscuria wrote: | | Anyways, voting. Hmm. I'm done with voting, so I guess no. |
So your preferred method of political participation is "Hulk crush?" 
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silentbob15
Snowy Owl
Joined: Mar 16, 2008
Age: 32
Posts: 170
Location: Bowness, Alberta
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| I have found people who complain the most about politics and how its all a corrupt process never bother to vote. |
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Awesomelyglorious
Destroyer of worlds, reaver of souls
Joined: Dec 18, 2005
Posts: 5725
Location: United States
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, that would make sense. If you think that the system is screwed up to the point where you can do nothing to fix it. You won't make an effort. |
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Orwell
Outer Party Member
Joined: Aug 09, 2007
Age: 18
Posts: 3714
Location: Room 101
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| silentbob15 wrote: | | I have found people who complain the most about politics and how its all a corrupt process never bother to vote. |
Um... duh. The act of voting assumes the process to be honest and fair. If you believe the process to be corrupt, isn't it the height of foolishness to participate as though it were not? If the process is corrupt, then voting is futile. I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make here.
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WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH |
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velodog
Gold Supporter
Joined: Mar 16, 2008
Posts: 1251
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:30 am Post subject: |
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| Orwell wrote: | | Right. We should definitely force every philistine with no interest in political affairs and no ability to actually come to an informed decision to participate in national decision-making. |
Good Post. |
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Speckles
Velociraptor
Joined: May 03, 2008
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:35 am Post subject: |
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Well, part of my feelings on the issue is that it's a lot easier to whine about the state of affairs then to actually go out and do something about it. If you are just presenting your views for the simple intellectual joy of it, then I can respect your choice to not vote. But frankly if you are so defeatist that you are unwilling to invest capital to support your viewpoint, such as an afternoon to vote, then why should I invest my time learning your point of view? You get what you pay for, and nothing rarely gets you very much.
Maybe that's unfair, but that's my feelings on the issue. Though I don't really think people should be forced to vote. I sometimes wonder if people should have to pay somehow for the privilege, like engaging in x number of hours of community service.
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I have seen the truth and it makes no sense. |
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 2033
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| silentbob15 wrote: | | I have found people who complain the most about politics and how its all a corrupt process never bother to vote. |
So if I vote, can I then complain? God bless those Zimbabweans!
Wait, did they complain after voting, or before voting?
| Orwell wrote: |
Um... duh. The act of voting assumes the process to be honest and fair. If you believe the process to be corrupt, isn't it the height of foolishness to participate as though it were not? If the process is corrupt, then voting is futile. I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make here. |
If only another several million people who did not vote had voted for the other guy, we wouldn't be in this mess!!
Elect Hulk! He doesn't discriminate if you vote or not.
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I'm no democRAT, I'm a republiCAN! |
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oscuria
Verbal Guerrilla
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 2033
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| Speckles wrote: | Well, part of my feelings on the issue is that it's a lot easier to whine about the state of affairs then to actually go out and do something about it. If you are just presenting your views for the simple intellectual joy of it, then I can respect your choice to not vote. But frankly if you are so defeatist that you are unwilling to invest capital to support your viewpoint, such as an afternoon to vote, then why should I invest my time learning your point of view? You get what you pay for, and nothing rarely gets you very much.
Maybe that's unfair, but that's my feelings on the issue. Though I don't really think people should be forced to vote. I sometimes wonder if people should have to pay somehow for the privilege, like engaging in x number of hours of community service. |
I support a theocracy. Where can I vote for such a state?
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I'm no democRAT, I'm a republiCAN! |
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Griff
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 17, 2006
Posts: 1615
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: |
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Usually, most people in the US don't even vote. However, I think that people should have a right to delegate their vote to trusted representatives.
Good luck putting down your separatist thugs. The right-wing is trying to rear its ugly head here, as well. Lessons from the Holocaust, so eagerly forgotten. Imagine! A bunch of retarded skinheads in control of the government! White, black, or indifferent, we will not construct a government based upon service to some select group of people. Gay, straight, liberal, or conservative, our government must be there for everyone. |
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Speckles
Velociraptor
Joined: May 03, 2008
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| oscuria wrote: | | silentbob15 wrote: | | I have found people who complain the most about politics and how its all a corrupt process never bother to vote. |
So if I vote, can I then complain? God bless those Zimbabweans!
Wait, did they complain after voting, or before voting?
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I don't understand your point here. Your implicit comparison of the apathy of the jaded American non-voter to the sheer oppression faced by the Zimbabweans is ludicrous. If you abstain from voting because otherwise you might be raped or killed, I can respect that you have chosen not to bring legitimacy to the farce of a democracy. If you abstain from voting because it's just too much work to spend an afternoon in line, then I'm going to look at your complaints of oppression with a bit of scepticism. The mere fact that you have HEARD of the Zimbabwe situation is because of the first aborted vote, and the fake second one; Africa is riddled with dictators, but Zimbabwe is the one on the news.
The media attention actually makes Zimbabwe an excellent example of voting making a difference IMO. Look at all the worldwide attention and criticism the vote against Mugabe has created. People are pretty obviously listening to the complaints of the Zimbabweans; the G8 voted to pass sanctions (though China and Russia vetoed the the resolution  those two are very anti-interventionist). Mugabe is going to find it increasingly hard to hold power, since now everyone knows he is a dictator.
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I have seen the truth and it makes no sense. |
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Speckles
Velociraptor
Joined: May 03, 2008
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| oscuria wrote: | | Speckles wrote: | Well, part of my feelings on the issue is that it's a lot easier to whine about the state of affairs then to actually go out and do something about it. If you are just presenting your views for the simple intellectual joy of it, then I can respect your choice to not vote. But frankly if you are so defeatist that you are unwilling to invest capital to support your viewpoint, such as an afternoon to vote, then why should I invest my time learning your point of view? You get what you pay for, and nothing rarely gets you very much.
Maybe that's unfair, but that's my feelings on the issue. Though I don't really think people should be forced to vote. I sometimes wonder if people should have to pay somehow for the privilege, like engaging in x number of hours of community service. |
I support a theocracy. Where can I vote for such a state? |
Join the religious right lobby, and vote republican 
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I have seen the truth and it makes no sense. |
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Awesomelyglorious
Destroyer of worlds, reaver of souls
Joined: Dec 18, 2005
Posts: 5725
Location: United States
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Griff wrote: | | White, black, or indifferent, we will not construct a government based upon service to some select group of people. Gay, straight, liberal, or conservative, our government must be there for everyone. |
Wait, so you want to abolish the government too? |
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