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furrowed
Emu Egg
Joined: Jul 15, 2008
Posts: 2
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 Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject: Can any parents describe how their AS 3-4 year old was like? |
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Hello all, (hope this isn't too long!)
First post. My son is 3.3. I have had some questions about his development for a while. I was hoping some of you out there might be able to help me! I have recently become informed that the "little professor" stereotype of AS is just that, a stereotype, and that AS toddlers don't necessarily behave/speak like little adults.
First, I have had him assessed by some well-respected developmental pediatricians (2 of them) - one was inconclusive, the other "didn't see autism being presented". I have had his speech assessed twice, and on paper comes up ok. I personally don't feel that he talks/connects to the world the same as kids his age.
Will play with Thomas all day if we let him - but won't freak out if we stop him. He stims some - mainly it takes the form of sounds he makes "Boota boota boota" or something similar. He is making some progress with potty training. Has good eye contact, affectionate, likes other kids, loves us and is very affectionate with us. He is very flexible with us at routine changes, less so at school, but not horribly so.
Mainly, what concerns me is this disconnect he has. He expresses very little curiosity about the world around him. I thought little kids were always trying to get your attention - he could sit all day by himself, I think. He has said "I love you" once without prompting. Never asks "why"/ "who is that" questions. Sometimes will "replay" (script?) little segments of old conversations, to himself, not really as a response. Has poor fine motor skills.
What were your kids like at this age? How old are they now? When were they Dx'd AS?
I hope this hasn't been too long. I really would love to hear what your kids were like when they were around this age. I thought autism or maybe PDD-NOS, I am not ruling those out, but just wanted to get some expert input from you guys. I love him for who he is, but just want to make sure that I am doing everything that will benefit him as he grows up.
Thank you all so, so much! |
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equinn
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 652
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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difficulty with transitions
running in open spaces (malls, grocery stores etc)
hiding from teachers
difficulty with reciprocity in friendships
difficulty understanding give and take and concept of friendship
loved/craved adults and did verywell with 1:1 attention from adult
obsessive interests in particular items with an intensity (all consuming)
ex: had to avoid certain aisles that had flashlights, batteries or disposable cameras
extremely articulate (perceived as gifted/very bright)
question after question after question (intense curiousity to absorb as much as possible about one thing even if he was repeating the same question over and over)
ability to tune out world, sit amongst chaos and hperfocus
humming, rocking, repetitive habits (watching same movie repeatedly)
excellent auditory skills (loved stories on tapes)
focused more on objects of interest than people unless he was asking questions
upon entering a room, he scanned, looking for items of interest (funny...he is still this way)
Your son's interest in thomas the tank sounds like a fixating interest. But, honestly, I don't see any other strong indicators of autism. He is flexible, excellent eye contact (big one) and shifts easily and loves interacting with people (is this correct)?
My son rarely looked at anyone when speaking and spoke loudly (still does). His conversations were awkward and very one-sided. He'd jump right into his interest or a question about his interest without saying hello to anyone. He'd also speak very descriptively and precisely about a topic, sounding like an encylopedia.
Still, you could keep an eye out and you'll know by preschool or kindergarten if he's not meshing.
Ironically, I thought my son was just fine and never suspected a thing. It wasn't until he attended Kindergarten that I realized he was either very immature or something else was going on. As time went on, I realized it was definitely something else and not just maturity.
best,
equinn |
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annotated_alice
Snowy Owl
Joined: Mar 26, 2008
Posts: 145
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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I have two sons recently dxed AS and ADHD (they are both 8 ). At 3-4 years old they were:
-intensely focused on special interest (trains!!!), absorbed huge amount of knowledge about trains and wanted to read, play, collect and talk about them all the time (a conversation wasn't "Hi, I'm so and so", it was "Hi! The TGV train runs in France. TGV means "train a grande vitesse", train of great speed. In Japan there is the bullet trains, named Shinkansen...and so on and so on."
-mild to moderate dysfluency
-very little eye contact
-great difficulty with transitions
-no interest in other kids
-tuned out surroundings (thought they may have hearing problems, but hearing was fine)
-intense meltdowns
-poor coordination (difficulty learning to throw and catch, cut with scissors etc.)
-slept much less than other kids their age
-learned to read quickly, had large vocabs (little professors)
-were very loud and into everything (terrors!!!  ), but then at other times would focus quietly for hours at a time
-when we took them out, they were much more interested in exploring new environments (inanimate objects) than the people we would see
I did not think there was anything "wrong" with them (still don't!!). I did notice differences between them and other children, but I just thought they were particularly bright and sensitive and the other kids were kind of dull. I was really shocked when they got into school, and did so poorly there. They were either completely shutting down, or having tantrums (overwhelmed) and little of their wonderful intelligence, imagination or spirit was coming through. The teachers thought it was social immaturity and nothing to worry about. They had good teachers and settled in and did OK after awhile. It wasn't until late in Grade 1 that I was convinced that there was more to it than that, and not until Grade 2 that teachers and doctors agreed.
My sons were extremely curious about the world around them, just more so about how things work, machines, animals, and imaginary characters, than people. They were both responsive and affectionate towards family members (sometimes seeming to have little or no sense of personal boundaries and almost too insistently demonstrative), but did not tend to seek out attention or approval from teachers or their peers the way other children do.
Your son is still very young. Just keep an eye on him, and see where the next few years take you. He may just be a little slow to mature in certain areas. |
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MaryB69
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Jul 13, 2008
Age: 39
Posts: 28
Location: western North Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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When you all are describing your kids at 3-4, it sounds like you are describing my 3 year old son. I guess I know what's coming as far as a diagnosis.
_________________
Mary
stay at home mom of Chip, Josh and Nevaeh
wife of Cody |
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rachel46
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: May 07, 2007
Posts: 178
Location: Midwest US
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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My son (now 11) had a HUGE Thomas the Tank engine preoccupation around 3 and 4 and 5. We had every single engine, book, game, video imaginable - but he loved it. he would do other things too but that was his favorite.
My son was/is very verbal, very curious. But, not about people - about things, books, objects, animals. He was able to play with kids but when he wasn't interested he could take them or leave them. As he gets older he is wanting to a little more about people.
He went to preschool and LOVED to learn - was/is a little professor. His vocabulary, thinking has always been ahead of his peers.
He did hand flapping but as he wasn't diagnosed until age 9 we didn't know what it was -he always did it when he was excited so we thought it was a cute, excited kid thing.
I don't know how many 3/4 year olds spontaneously say "I love you" ? I wouldn't really worry about that.
It's hard to know at this age what is spectrum stuff and what is typical preschool age stuff.
Don't worry too much - you keep watching and reading this board and you'll get a lot of info.
P.S. I don't think my son would have been diagnosed with anything at that age either. His AS didn't present a problem until 3rd grade and then the fun began! Long story short - we pulled him out of public school and we homeschool now. It's the best decision we ever made. |
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MaryB69
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Jul 13, 2008
Age: 39
Posts: 28
Location: western North Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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My son has MAJOR meltdowns in public places. He can't stand being around a big group of people at all. If it's more than 10 people then he's having a major meltdown. Yesterday I took him to the library and it was a HUGE mistake. There was about 30 kids in the room and he had to be taken out cause he was having such a meltdown. Once he was with about 5 kids or so then he was doing fine. He still keeps to himself for the most part though. He does give me hugs and kisses, but has never told me that he loves me, even when prompted. He's very obsessed with computers, bugs, and racecars. He insists on watching the same show over and over and over. He's very smart though and loves to point out letters that he recozniges. He knows lots about bugs and the computer. It's so hard to see what he goes through when we have somewhere that we have to take him. He doesn't mind grocery shopping because he gets to ride in the cart and we try to get the ones that look like a racecar so that helps lots. I love him so much and it's hard seeing him go through the meltdowns. Yesterday the one he had was so bad his nose started bleeding!! UUUUUUUUUUGGHHHHHH!!
_________________
Mary
stay at home mom of Chip, Josh and Nevaeh
wife of Cody |
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PunkyKat
Phoenix
Joined: May 15, 2008
Posts: 578
Location: Twlight Zone
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| I'll try to get my mom to post here in a few days. |
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No_YOU_get_over_it
Toucan
Joined: Jun 29, 2008
Posts: 255
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: Can any parents describe how their AS 3-4 year old was l |
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Hi Furrowed,
this is based on my experience of my little brother - he was born when I was 18. Hope sib input is OK.
AS toddlers don't necessarily behave/speak like little adults.
My brother didn't talk at all as a toddler, then at some point started in full sentences and didn't shut up. He didn't get 'professorial' until later.
"didn't see autism being presented"
Did this doctor give details about her/his criteria, on what basis s/he felt confident ruling out AHA/AS?
don't feel that he talks/connects to the world the same as kids his age.
This could be attachment issues, or any number of things.
Will play with Thomas
Sorry, what/who's Thomas?
He stims some - mainly it takes the form of sounds he makes "Boota boota boota" or something similar.
My bro noticed when a church bell playing some tune was off key. He couldn't imitate it, but it irritated him. He also made up words and repeated them, some of which the rest of the family adopted. Not sure if making funny sounds is an absolute indicator though.
likes other kids
Yet you've got the feeling he's not connecting with his environment the way you'd expect. What differences do you notice in the way he interacts, compared to other kids his age? Sorry if I'm a bit thick - I'm not quite understanding where you're picking up on his 'otherness.'
Mainly, what concerns me is this disconnect he has.
Does this change at all when he's in a new situation?
He expresses very little curiosity about the world around him.
Could you share some concrete examples?
I thought little kids were always trying to get your attention - he could sit all day by himself
Smiling here ... sounds very familiar. Is he playing during this time, or just staring at the wall? If given a 'boundary', my brother could play by himself for hours. He was happy for company, and would sometimes request it.
He has said "I love you" once without prompting.
Oh dear - this is something NT kids say just b/c they sense it's expected. Which is not good.
Never asks "why"/ "who is that" questions.
In what kind of situations would you expect this?
"replay" (script?) little segments of old conversations, to himself,
Do you notice whether there's an emotional component to this? My brother did this if something had upset him.
Has poor fine motor skills.
This could be a lot of things.
You said you'd had him "assessed" - did this include standard neuro screenings?
You sound like you're aware of what's going on with him, but it sounds like a lot of this could be typical variants of normal development. Little kids get fixated on one thing for a while.
Does he seem at all frustrated with his interactions?
_________________
- NYGOI
NB: contents of above post represent my opinion at time of post only. YMMV, NAYY, and most importantly, IALBTC! |
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9CatMom
Ailurophile
Joined: Jan 02, 2007
Posts: 5541
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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At 3-4 years of age I was fascinated with animals. My favorite story was one about a Siamese cat. I loved music and books.
At 43 years of age-I'm still the same! I still love cats, still love books and love to listen to music. |
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mom2bax
Sea Gull
Joined: Oct 12, 2007
Posts: 213
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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my son was Dx in October this paast year and will be 5 in october.
other than numbers and now possibly webkinz he has not really ahd a special area of focus althought he was and still is very bright for his age.
he is doing multiplication and division becasue he's moved on from addition and subtraction. he can also read when he was assessed it was at an 8 year old level.
he does often speak like a little adult.
he would make eye contact but very breifly and usually only when reminded or asked to.
he is very snuggly and will come and cuddle when he wants.
he cannot blow his nose we just have to wipe it.when he gets excited he jumps and flaps his hands.
he just doesn't get many social things and why he can't say or do a certain thing.
he si an amazing little man. but that's just it he is in many ways a little man so i guess he fits the little professor stereotype.
he would have rather played by himself or done a workbook than been with other kids but after a year of preschool he really gets in there sometimes although you can tell his comprehension of games is a little less than his peers
and often you have to play the game just the way HE wants it done or he gets upset.
he can be flexible but it is always better to give him some notice of transitions.
maybe it's becasue we've never been the structured scheduled type of family.
not sure if this helps or not but i hope it does.
in gemera; he just seems a bit off from his peers and has some strange quirks some of which i only noticed after his little sister was born and bigger and they playd together.
maybe it's just a very mild form, becasue it is a spectrum, or maybe he' s just introverted.
just keep watching and in time it will either become more pronounced or he'll just grow out of it. |
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wisteria
Blue Jay
Joined: Mar 16, 2008
Posts: 96
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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huge meltdowns
terrible at transitioning
tactile defensive
would not allow his head, face or nails to be touched
fear of water
obsessive interests (dinosaurs and computers)
non-verbal
poor eater
low muscle tone, couldn't "do sports" or run/ jump
could read (well) before he could speak
but, he had good eye contact, or at least it seemed to me he did
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This machine will, will not communicate. |
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gbollard
the oncoming storm
Joined: Oct 06, 2007
Age: 39
Posts: 3081
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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3.3 is a little too early to make any kind of conclusive diagnosis. Your son sounds like he's progressing well in other areas so, unless it's causing him (not you) undue concern, leave it for a little while.
As far as aspergers is concerned, it's a given that the condition is hereditary and that the likelihood of it passing down a male line is much higher than a female line (but certainly not impossible as then number of female aspies on this site will attest to). Anyway, my advice would be for you to direct your attentions elsewhere and try to spot the aspie in the (relatively) immediate family. If you find one - and if they score well? on the aspie quiz, then you can start chasing for a diagnosis on your son.
Be careful though, as many doctors feel threatened by patients who come in and claim a specific condition and may reject and self-diagnosis out of hand.
_________________
Gavin.
http://life-with-aspergers.blogspot.com/ |
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MaryB69
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Jul 13, 2008
Age: 39
Posts: 28
Location: western North Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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My husband has an older son who is autistic so I know the tendancy is already there, but I wasn't looking for it. It kinda popped out at me. I'm not going to say what I think is going on when I take my son to the doc. I'm just going to say that I suspect something is going on and explain the symptoms.
_________________
Mary
stay at home mom of Chip, Josh and Nevaeh
wife of Cody |
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furrowed
Emu Egg
Joined: Jul 15, 2008
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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I have been out of town, but just wanted to thank everyone for all of your wonderful and thoughtful input. I am trying to relax a little, and make sure I am not over-reacting, but everyone sites the importance of early-intervention, so I just want to be able to tell myself that I have done everything for him. So sometimes I feel uneasy about sitting back and taking things easy and with him... Catch 22 
Just to clarify a little about him and my concerns:
I do my best not to compare him to other ids, but we have freinds with similar aged kids, and whenever I drop him off or pick him up from daycare, I am SWARMED by kids trying to show me/ sharing things they have, they are doing, that they can do. He doesn't do this even at home. I have read this is quite a red flag for little children.
I have read that 3 is sufficiently old for a Dx of autism, but generally AS isn't Dx'd until 7ish or older, but that enough signs should be present at 3 to determine PDD-NOS (which could change to AS at age 7). We went over the DSM creiteria with our dev ped at the time.
I am still concerned about all this, but just wanted to thank you all for answering. I will keep watching this board and getting insight, and will feel comfortable asking again after all of your warm replies. Thanks so much. |
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gbollard
the oncoming storm
Joined: Oct 06, 2007
Age: 39
Posts: 3081
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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Furrowed,
I think you've got the right idea. Early intervention is certainly the best thing but the signs aren't always clear. You've identified a possible genetic source so there's now enough "concern" to warrant observation. Talk to the preschool about your concerns and ask them to be on the lookout. They should be able to keep you informed since they'd be reasonably familiar with how aspergers presents (unless they're all new teachers).
When you have something from the preschool, you might want to approach a paediatrician.
_________________
Gavin.
http://life-with-aspergers.blogspot.com/ |
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