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Tahitiii
Deinonychus
Joined: Jul 02, 2008
Age: 52
Posts: 353
Location: NJ, USA
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 Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:31 pm Post subject: Give me drugs so that I won’t be afraid. |
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Give me drugs so that I won’t be afraid to floor it and ram this baby into that brick wall. Again.
I’ve been reading lately about memories of bullying. Here’s a good one:
http://specialchildren.about.com/od/booksonaspergersyndrome/gr/ASandbullying.htm
There’s plenty of other things to read on the subject, but that one is a good start.
“Oh,” you say, “I get it.” Well, no, you don’t get it. If you still believe that forcing your child to go to school is a good idea, then you certainly DO NOT GET IT. You need to read it. All. Yes, it is painful to read. But not nearly as painful as what your inarticulate child goes through every day. And unlike your child’s school attendance, your education in this matter is necessary and will serve a purpose.
In the literature, when they talk about various forms of child abuse, I just go down the list. “Been there, done that...” They will talk about Physical Abuse, Sexual Abuse, Posttraumatic Stress, Dissociative Identity Disorder (compartmentalizing, derealization), Conduct “Disorder” (damn right I was defiant), Anhedonia (inability to experience pleasure), Reactive Attachment “Disorder,” the list goes on. What they don’t mention is the methods of CONTROL and power games in common use, particularly with Aspies, that are far more harmful than all of the others combined. They are only hard to describe because no one wants to hear it. It is a six-hundred-pound gorilla in the middle of the room. Which part don’t you get? A day in school is worse than physical or sexual abuse.
I had it all. But the worst part, worse than all of the others combined, was the power game, which is not even on the list. I got it both at home and at school. When I was almost sixteen and decided the time had come for my emancipation, I used my history of sexual abuse as a weapon. A handy little greenade, all packed up and ready to use. I actually felt dishonest using it. The sexual abuse was so trivial, by comparison. But I knew that it was the only thing the police would understand.
I am 52 years old, and I still say that dropping out of school was the smartest thing I ever did. We have plenty of alternative routes that are faster, easier, cheaper and better. Yes, I went to college and beyond. I got me a degree in Special Education. I had some vague notion of coming back and fixing what was wrong.
Even for the “normal” kids, most public schools are not much more than glorified babysitters, and the kids are not getting much of an education anyway. In addition to it being a colossal waste of time, your Autistic kid is being harmed in ways that you cannot imagine.
Does your kid hate school? Maybe there’s a reason.
Should you force him to go anyway? Why?
At my age, I can pick my battles. A blood test really freaks me out, but I can see a pay-off.
Hanging out with a crazy sister-in-law who consciously uses every opportunity to abuse me and will never consider stopping? No one on the planet benefits from that, and the cost is astronomical. So I skip it.
My tolerance is a kind of currency. I spend it when I have a reasonable expectation of some benefit, to someone (not necessarily a benefit to me).
Ask not, “What lies can I tell the kid to make him go,” but “What is the point?” Really. Make a list.
Do you want an official piece of paper saying that he got an education? We have plenty of alternative routes. He will not miss anything of value.
You can’t afford private school or home schooling? Anything at all would be better than what most public schools offer. A high school kid will get more of an education sitting on the computer all day, surfing subjects that interest him. A younger child would be better off baking cookies with grandma. Even with the occasional spanking.
Do you believe that you can beat the Autism out of him? You can’t, and the attempt will make him worse, and LESS able to function in the adult world.
Do you want to trust it to the professionals? You can’t. They have a vested interest in lying to you. And they believe that the bullying is a good thing. The teachers themselves are bullies, and actively encourage the students to do the same.
Do you want to pretend or want the neighbors to believe that the kid is normal? Stop being a pig.
If I drive too fast and RISK running into obstacles that MIGHT or might not be there, you could reasonably call that “risky” and “dangerous.” I should be AFRAID of something that MIGHT happen.
If I position myself in front of a brick wall and press the pedal to the floor, that is not “risky” or “dangerous.” That would be suicide. My aversion to such behavior is not “fear.” It is knowledge.
Social Anxiety “Disorder”??? How is that a disorder? That is sanity.
He does not want to go because they hurt him. All the time.
"Hold still so I can hit you some more. It hurts my feelings when you try to shield yourself like that."
Last edited by Tahitiii on Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:00 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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SIXLUCY
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 14, 2008
Age: 30
Posts: 895
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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Apart from partner who died being abused as a child was by far my worst experience. It didnt matter what the outside world did to me, nothing could be worst than being at home.
I hated school but strangley I love being there and felt so depressed at the thought of having to go home.
Certainly every ones experience is different but I dont think Ive made any abuse experiences as an excuse. To be honest Ive always been so confused as to what to think.
It's only been a year or so back that through a course thearpy I became to the realisation of how much abuse messed me up.
Until this time I was like, well what is all the fuss..?
When it hit me it hit me bad but I'm glad to say Im finially getting over it and leaving the past behind where it belongs. |
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Tahitiii
Deinonychus
Joined: Jul 02, 2008
Age: 52
Posts: 353
Location: NJ, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| True. The best person to ask is the child. |
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SIXLUCY
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 14, 2008
Age: 30
Posts: 895
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Sadly, people did ask me. I was always in the counsellors office because Teachers reckoned their must have been abuse at home. I really wanted to say something but I was too scared.
When I finially did, I was 15 much older and I never been so scared. I couldnt stop crying and shaking for days on end.
Til this day my family still holds it against me that 'Im not all there'
I hate it I really do |
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2ukenkerl
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 4376
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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First of all, THANKS Tahitti for AGAIN calling attention to this conspiracy of silence. This is one reason I loss respect for almost every person on the planet. There is a culture with its own rules.
In my day, at least, ALL the boys knew about it! Indications are that the girls did ALSO. The generation before mine HAD to know about it, because it was in TV series! Name ONE family series covering even the slightest aspect of kid socialization or school life that didn't have it!!!! Even just ONE! Make room for daddy, the dick van dyke show, I love lucy, Leave it to beaver, they ALL had it! Even revenge of the nerds, animal house, and american pie! HAPPY DAYS! They ALL had it! It is what keeps the gangs on the streets going!
So where is the conspiracy of silence? NOBODY acknowledges the culture! Every now and then ******NOW****** they talk about a video on youtube, or some other thing, like this a a new phenomenon. Everyone associated with such a broadcast should be SHOT! They are insulting all of humanity, and littering the airwaves with stuff everyone knows, and claiming it is news ONLY because everyone has ignored it, is ignoring it, and plans to keep ignoring it. Where was that when I was in school? Where was it when my parents were in school? There is evidence that this has been going on for THOUSANDS of years. It is even indicated in the BIBLE!(old and new testaments!)
It is the bully/passive culture. HERE are the rules!
1. NOBODY in authority is to do anything meaningful to the bully to hurt his position.
2. The passive person is not allowed to say ANYTHING about the bully's bullying.
3. NOBODY else is allowed to say ANYTHING about the bullying of the passive person.
4. If rules 2 or 3 is broken, the bully may do anything he wants to the passive person.
5. If rule 1 or 4 is broken, the bully may even act worse.
6. It is HIGHLY unlikely that number 1 will ever be broken but, if it is, the bully may then get together with other bullies to start a gang, even if they are jailed.
Rule #1 is practically codified into LAW now! There are SO many rules to protect it. It is interesting that parents will OFTEN break #3 EVEN though they should know about this culture. I don't know WHY bullies want to bully. They feel SAFE though, because of #1!
Frankly, if there is reason to believe a person is a bully, the person should be put into a school with NO recess, lower quality education, and with similar people. If THAT happened, maybe they would wise up. If not, OH WELL.... The passives would become their BOSSES! |
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menameslaura
Raven
Joined: May 24, 2007
Age: 38
Posts: 124
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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Tahitiii,
Wow...I knoe it may not be much, but after reading YOUR original post to your thread is all I can say is ... "well said".
And.... you too, are in my prayers tonight.
You've been through a whole hell of alot. I would never even be able to comprehend the pain you've been through....but, it's people such as yourself, posting on this great website that give us (NT's) a glimpse of the pain and strife you go through, and I sympathize and empathize with you, sincerely.
Our son who is 7 has always been so lucky to have us and our family network of love and understanding to be enveloped in, but, I honestly wonder sometimes if we REALLY know him. Try as we may.
I pray alot, and I talk through things with him as much as possible.....and try to keep an open mind to what HE'S saying....even if it takes what would have taken me 5 minutes to explain takes him 15 minutes to explain.
I love him. That's it.
God Bless,
Laura |
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marieclaire
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Jul 18, 2008
Posts: 197
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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| I agree, very well said!! |
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pakled
"Bless his Heart"
Joined: Nov 13, 2007
Age: 50
Posts: 2547
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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wow...someone actually my age (nearly)...
I don't know, I've seen it from both sides. I went through college (and picked up an AS -Associate of Science) after that. If your schooling was like mine (and actually...it probably wasn't. If there's one thing I heard over and over, it was how 'different' we were from students a couple years older...but enough of that... then we weren't even considering the idea that you could drop out of school.
AS wasn't anything but a psychological curiosity at the time, not even a recognized diagnosis (this would be the 70s for me). Specialized tutoring, tracking (we had two; college, or trade) wasnt' set up...heck, we didn't even have short busses yet. If you had AS, you were just weird.
I got my share of lumps in high school. Bullying, even a race riot once. I was luckier than most in that I had a good friend who wasn't that intellectually-gifted, but was humungous. That helped.
Now my stepdaughter, she has learning disabilities of a different kind (no relation, but not AS).
However, being of the 'no child left behind' generation, she made it to 8th grade. She'd been held back twice (which is pretty much a guarantee of her dropping out), and the teachers actually told her that 'she could drop out when she was 16. So you can imagine what she did. They told us there was nothing we or they could (actually would) do.
The idea (from the schools' point of view) is that if she's on the books, she counts 'against' the success of the kids. If she drops out on her own, well, the school didn't fail her. And they can collect that yummy gov't money because they're only counting the survivors.
Now some people can be successful without education; you've proved that. However, as a general rule, I think the opportunity should be there. What we do with our kids is our business, but I for one would want to support my kids as much as I can. But, the rules have changed. |
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Tahitiii
Deinonychus
Joined: Jul 02, 2008
Age: 52
Posts: 353
Location: NJ, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| pakled wrote: | ...The teachers actually told her that she could drop out when she was 16...
...if she's on the books, she counts 'against' the success of the...school...
...the school didn't fail her... |
I can understand the impulse to be stubborn and stay with public education.
Letting them get away with that just seems so wrong... On the other hand...
I had no first-hand experience with the forced bussing of the 1960's, or the block-busters,
moving a black family into a white neighborhood that clearly did not want them.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3945/is_200104/ai_n8934574
Those families were brave, yes. But I would not do that to my own child. I could attend a demonstration and carry a sign, but if I know that they will try to hurt my child, I would leave him home.
We lucked out and found a charter school that ran through the eighth grade. And now that we are back, the new management in the local school has given me a reason to believe that something has changed. It's worth a try, at least, until I learn differently.
| pakled wrote: | | ...Now, some people can be successful without education; you've proved that. |
Sorry, but no, I have not. It didn't work that way. I DID have a full college education, and I have NOT been successful, due to job descrimination.
` |
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SIXLUCY
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 14, 2008
Age: 30
Posts: 895
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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I feel for you 
ITS NOT FAIR ITS NOT FAIR  |
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marieclaire
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Jul 18, 2008
Posts: 197
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Tahitiii
Sorry, but no, I have not. It didn't work that way. I DID have a full college education, and I have NOT been successful, due to job descrimination.
`[/quote]
I'm sorry to hear this -- can you be determined to just keep fighting.
In what way do they discriminate. I find it very hard to get through the interview process, also at work I tend to rely on antianxiety medications. |
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Triangular_Trees
What is right is sometimes found on the left.
Joined: Jul 18, 2007
Posts: 1722
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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I know an aspie who went to 33 job interviews before he got hired. And he ended up becoming the CEO of the company
I'm not sure if they do this for other professions, but there are always several large job fairs where people across the country come to interview prospective teachers. I went to them starting 2 years before I graduated. After the interview was over, the interviewers told me what I did wrong, and what I could do to improve. That helped me become much more comfortable in this area. And if not for the fact I decided I no longer want to be an elementary teacher (and was nervous about moving to a new state), I'd have a permanent position right now |
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rachel46
Snowy Owl
Joined: May 07, 2007
Posts: 172
Location: Midwest US
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:24 am Post subject: |
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Your post was very moving and just reiterates what I've been thinking since I pulled my now 11 yr. old son out.
I read a newspaper article in which the reporter found homeschooling an odd choice when she saw the "bounty" offered in public school. A "bounty" of what? Has she been to a public school lately?
If more people really took the time to honestly assess what goes on in public school on a daily basis they would and should be horrified. Public school is not a place where great learning takes place, it is not a place where original thinking is encouraged, it is not a place where individuality is celebrated. It is a warehouse where kids are controlled, monitored and prepared for THE STANDARDIZED TESTS. It is also a place where discipline is metered out far too slowly and ineffectively. |
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Triangular_Trees
What is right is sometimes found on the left.
Joined: Jul 18, 2007
Posts: 1722
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If more people really took the time to honestly assess what goes on in public school on a daily basis they would and should be horrified. Public school is not a place where great learning takes place, it is not a place where original thinking is encouraged, it is not a place where individuality is celebrated. It is a warehouse where kids are controlled, monitored and prepared for THE STANDARDIZED TESTS. It is also a place where discipline is metered out far too slowly and ineffectively. |
That depends on the school. You can't say all schools are this way any more than you can say that all parents whose kids throw temper tantrums in public don't have any clue how to teach their children the proper way to behave.
The best method known for teaching today is constructivism - thats where kids construct their own knowledge through doing something, not sitting there and being told how something is done. Also many schools encourage kids to learn things outside of school and share what they've learned with their classmates. Some even have events to showcase these - and not just the typical once a year science fair either.
If discipline was meterd out far to slowly most schools wouldn't be safe to step a foot in for parents and teachers, as well as students. I have seen one of those schools. Then they changed principals and within a month of her starting you no longer had kids running out of the classroom, throwing things, hitting each other, and threatening to kill teachers. The last principal largely ignored things like fistfights and kids leaving the room without permission.
And the most important thing to remember is schools can't discipline your children alone. If the school tells your child he can't hit someone, and punishes him by losing recess, and you tell your child he should hit anyone who gives him a hard time, and then reward him to make up for losing recess you can't blame the school for not stopping him from fighting though its not difficult at all to find parents who do such things-and yes I know of parents like that - quite a few at the previously mentioned school. One of these that prinicipal did to stop the parents ludicrous behavior was engage in tactics designed to show the parents that the school wanted to work with him - every teacher now has to make 5 positive phone calls home a week to any 5 children in the class, there are monthly rewards ceremonies that include rewards for improving grades that the parents are invited to attend, as well as assemblies. At some of these assemblies every child is given a gift that they can take home and do whatever they please- once a large book of fairy tales. And as just about every child there lives in the housing projects for many thats the only gift they'll get all year from anyone. |
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Tahitiii
Deinonychus
Joined: Jul 02, 2008
Age: 52
Posts: 353
Location: NJ, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:33 am Post subject: |
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Absolutely, some schools are good.
The biggest question is whether your child is happy.
We were lucky and found a charter school where they actively practice Positive Discipline.
My daughter (no special needs) started kindergarten in the regular public school. I could write a book about all of the things that were wrong with the program. Suffice it to say that it was awful. She would cling and cry, and often she refused to go to school at all. I couldn't blame her.
She transferred to the charter school in January of that year and, within days, she was jumping out of the car in the morning and running in to her class without even saying goodbye. Holding hands with Mom? Ancient history.
My son was never recognized as someone with an issue, but I can now see that he is an Aspie. He was a little luckier in that his kindergarten and second grad teachers and the vice principal wanted to do sensible things but were forbidden by the prinipal. (They did a few nice things on the sly anyway.) In third grade in the public school, he was having headaches and being sent home by the nurse.
In fourth grade, in the charter school: As we approached the end of the school year, they were doing projects in small groups. We arrived a few minutes late that morning. As we drove into the parking lot, we found the members of my son's project group standing around on the steps, waiting for us. One of them called out, "Hurry up! We need you! Chop-chop!" My son tried to be cool, but his chest puffed out anyway as he walked into the school.
More importantly than the behavior of the kids, look at the behavior of the teachers.
If the kids are treated like animals from day-one, don't be surprised when they act like animals in middle school.
On the first day of kindergarten, they nearly broke my kid's arm, trying to wrench her from me while trying to prevent me from entering the building myself. They really believed that allowing parents inside was a bad thing. If they habitually and systematically try to belittle and intimidate parents, imagine what's going on AFTER you let them close the door.
If they seem threatened when you want to come in, or try to belittle an honest question, there's a reason.
Forget the behavior of the students. They often have the sense to try to hide their bad behavior, and they are only mirroring what they are taught.
Last edited by Tahitiii on Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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