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alex
Developer
Joined: Jun 14, 2004
Age: 22
Posts: 6312
Location: DC Metro Area (No. VA)
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 Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:17 pm Post subject: hate speech against autistics on the internet? |
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Hey all, have any of you been told that hopefully there won't be many autistic people in the world in the coming years? Doesn't that mindset seem scary?
found on the autism speaks message board:
| Quote: | Thank goodness -- thank goodness -- thank goodness we live in a country where parentalism, recovery and hope for a cure can be used in the same sentence. Thank goodness our mentality is one that offers hope for even the most severist person on the parentalist spectrum. Thank goodnes our Early Intervention advocac is powerful and will change the face of parentalism in this next generation and most likely lower the numbers of those on the spectrum.
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emphasis mine |
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Mage
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 11, 2006
Posts: 839
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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I think the problem with Autism Speaks users are that they tend to confuse "high-functioning" with "cured". They assume that if a kid gets early intervention, learns to walk, talk, and eventually goes to school with the "normal" kids, they are "cured", and not just high-functioning.
Hence the reason they don't consider high-functioning adults on the spectrum to be "real" autistics. |
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Nan
Phoenix
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Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 3158
Location: left coast
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Mage wrote: | I think the problem with Autism Speaks users are that they tend to confuse "high-functioning" with "cured". They assume that if a kid gets early intervention, learns to walk, talk, and eventually goes to school with the "normal" kids, they are "cured", and not just high-functioning.
Hence the reason they don't consider high-functioning adults on the spectrum to be "real" autistics. |
Probably right, there. The wiring may be tampered with somewhat, but it'll never be precisely as NT. Then again, are all NTs wired the same, anyway? Odd to think that they don't realize that some of us figured out how to rewire ourselves. So many people seem to assume there ~always~ has to be an outside force or "science" or "medicine" involved. And that all modifications are good (even those that move one toward the "norm" are not necessarily "good" in the grander scheme). Always the outside agent.... Sometimes yes, of course. But so many don't seem to see that there are other options, other results, for other people. How very strange.
I'd worry less about what people say, and more about what people do. Most of the talkers are NOT do-ers.
Folks who come across as the equivalent of the obnoxious, overbearing versions of religious fundamentalists (for comparison's sake) - those who are rabid, rigid, and intolerant - tend to show by example what they are made of. And they hamstring themselves ... they lose credibility in the larger world (though they rarely seem to realize that). Best to just let them talk, and let them show themselves for who they are. Watch, but don't invest a lot of effort into arguing or dealing with them.
Carefully cultivate a different image. If they begin to act, you will have studied them for long enough to pretty much know what steps they'll be planning to take. You can then take countermeasures to derail their plans. And you'll have the image/street cred to do so.
In the meantime, they just dig their own graves a bit at a time, as the saying goes.
[Why do I keep thinking of the Polish Cavalry's last heroic charge?  ]
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Novinson's Revolutionary Discovery: When comes the revolution, things will be different - not better, just different. |
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Keith
Guarding my post here
Joined: Aug 13, 2008
Age: 25
Posts: 1012
Location: East Sussex, UK
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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Every thought that NT's were the ones who are abnormal?
It seems the majority of one makes the other not normal. So if there were more females than males, then being male is abnormal? Both are required to continue.
Humans have all sorts of traits such as autism more than the animal kingdom for one simple reason. We look deeper and care for everyone. The animal kingdom seeks and supports the strongest therefore the stronger genes are carried on and continued. If this were the same with people then stuff such as autism would be long gone...
Just something I've been thinking about for a long time and never really sourced the info online anywhere. |
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Danielismyname
Troglodyte descended
Joined: Apr 03, 2007
Posts: 5926
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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One thing many parents should realise is that people with Autistic Disorder improve in most of the cases; the "severe" symptoms that many talk about in children vanish as they grow (nonverbal, aggressive behaviour, etcetera). Sure, they'll most likely be reliant on family/government aid/housing, but with the right support for the majority of them, it's possible for them to work and form relationships if they so desire [and even live independently without much assistance in the "best" cases].
These people can offer a view on humanity that humanity as a whole can't see; being detached from the group/collective via feelings and the many forms of communication (most of which are nonverbal), will create this alternative, but just as valid view on life.
We'll never be "normal", but if everyone were "normal", humanity would be quite stagnant (I believe Heinlein touches on this very fact in the novel Starship Troopers with the human colony that doesn't receive hardly any solar radiation at all, hence, there'll be no mutations due to such). |
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Averick
Calculateurre of Chaos
Joined: Mar 06, 2007
Age: 29
Posts: 2127
Location: in the trenches..
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Autism Sqeaks will do nothing but make more glum, super-intelligent savants who end up despising their organization in the long run because of militant childhoods that they have been forced to live. So don't worry, the cycle will of course repeat itself naturally... |
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Asterisp
Deinonychus
Joined: Dec 16, 2007
Posts: 379
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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A bit less black/white could be used in such a discussion. It is becoming too much a dogma.
Pushing children can help them, but only to a certain limit. Pushing too far will result in traumas and hate, not pushing will result in children not using their potentials. I think a little pushing works, but only in with enough help and a proper environment. Expecting the children to be geniuses and winners will certainly work not! But labelling them as guaranteed losers won't help either.
But all children should be loved and valued, even if their talents are not always visible. |
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westernwild
Toucan
Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 255
Location: The wild, wild West
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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The FAAAS Fascists are even worse both on their website content and on their message boards. The amount of misinformation, disinformation, inaccuracy, cruelty, selfishness and plain pure hate is just unbelievable. And the worst thing about it is that ONLY family members are permitted, absolutely no one with AS/ASD. So they can say whatever the hell they want and there's no one to counter it or to try to explain what things are like for AS/ASD adults, how exhausting everyday life can be, that they're NOT automatic ogres while those poor, long-suffering family are all saints no matter what. If they had their way, they'd wipe us all from the face of the earth.
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Queen of the anti-FAAAS. FAAAS does NOT speak for me and many other families!!
Life is not about waiting out storms, but learning to dance in the rain-Anonymous |
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Ishmael
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 08, 2008
Posts: 1170
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:10 am Post subject: |
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Hey, look, ma! I dhone be lyke evrybuddy else, now! Yee-haaw, I is normals now! I done be curied by magic peoples with them there machines 'n such like. I is gonna sleep wit ma sister, ah-hyuck.
Yeah, sorry, but I dislike the concept of "let's make 'em just like us". These people who promote "cures" are... for lack of better terms, gullible, backwards idiots. Actually, perhaps those are the best terms... Ah, retrospect...
I laugh when they trot out a so-called "cured" autistic person, and compare them to a "recovering" Autistic.
The "recovering" Autistics are always much younger, lower-functioning.
The "cured" Autistics are somwhat older and higher-functioning.
When will these jackasses realise they HAVE NO RIGHT TO SPEAK FOR US! They have no right to try and promote the mentality that fewer of us would be a good thing! We've words for that: Genocide, and them's fightin' words.
Personally; my research endeavours to stabilise the autistic mutation - which, at least apparently, seems to be happening naturally - but not fast enough. I can't wait ten thousand years; not with "pro-cure" idiots about.
By stabilising the gene; the detrimental characteristics of Autism will not be present, whilst the more constructive elements will be.
I know, playing "god", trying to accelerate an occuring process, but, hey - I don't believe in god, so I'll do whatever I want.
The difference: My approach is optional to people who desire it, and can articulate that THEMSELVES.
NOT something to be forced on all!
Incidentally, stabilisation will not mean that whoever is already autistic will magically become like Einstein; rather that Kanner's Autistic children would not be born - as evidence SUGGESTS, I won't say that it's a certain thing yet, though I'm still researching - instead, a "better autistic" child would be born: Having the particular mindset and capacity of thought as a savant-type Asperger, without the physical awkwardness, anxiety, depression, etc. Social-skills would be different, of course, but rather than lacking social abilities, they would simply not have been. As it stands; many Aspergers desire socialisation, but lack the capability - much as though it were an amputated thought process. These people would have no interest in socialisation, but the capacity to emulate it if so desired.
Basically, what many of us try to be.
This is not a solution for any perceived notion that current Aspergers and Autistics are any lesser beings; rather, that because many Aspergers - like myself - do not wish to have children, for the risk of what their lives may be like in this world we live in.
This would solve that. If I succeed at this, no guarantee I will, then I can have kids. They won't have to live as I did, as I do.
They would be infinitely happier for that, I should think. Again, it's an optional thing. I really only intend it for myself, but others can have as they will...
But, let's see pricks like that try to spread their "no autistic" propaganda, against the concept of a clearly and visibly equal, yet vastly different, Autistic group? That would be worth a laugh.
Good god, reading back on that, sounds almost like science-fiction...
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Oh, well, fancy that! Isn't that neat, eh? |
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alex
Developer
Joined: Jun 14, 2004
Age: 22
Posts: 6312
Location: DC Metro Area (No. VA)
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:48 am Post subject: |
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Another thing I find eery is that these people who say things like "hopefully there won't be as many of you in the next few decades" claim to be offended by the term "curebie." They'll act all offended and play victim.
It's hypocritical really because they talk about autistics not being able to know what's best and yet they somehow get offended by a single individual or a group of individuals in a disadvantaged minority group using a term like curebie after being mistreated and degraded for years. |
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Ishmael
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 08, 2008
Posts: 1170
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Another thing I find eery is that these people who say things like "hopefully there won't be as many of you in the next few decades" claim to be offended by the term "curebie." They'll act all offended and play victim.
It's hypocritical really because they talk about autistics not being able to know what's best and yet they somehow get offended by a single individual or a group of individuals in a disadvantaged minority group using a term like curebie after being mistreated and degraded for years. |
Rationality, sadly, is not a universal trait.
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Oh, well, fancy that! Isn't that neat, eh? |
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1Oryx2
Toucan
Joined: May 11, 2006
Posts: 265
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| I think Autism Speaks sometimes doesn't really know what they're speaking about. They show really low functioning kids in one vidio but fail to talk about any actual acheivments or positives about Autism. I think in their good intentions, they wound up doing more harm then good. |
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Orwell
Outer Party Member
Joined: Aug 09, 2007
Age: 19
Posts: 4242
Location: Room 101
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| alex wrote: | Another thing I find eery is that these people who say things like "hopefully there won't be as many of you in the next few decades" claim to be offended by the term "curebie." They'll act all offended and play victim.
It's hypocritical really because they talk about autistics not being able to know what's best and yet they somehow get offended by a single individual or a group of individuals in a disadvantaged minority group using a term like curebie after being mistreated and degraded for years. |
And they fail to understand that we would take offense at their stated goal of making sure that no one like us will ever be permitted to exist in the future they envision.
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WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
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LeKiwi
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 27, 2007
Posts: 2589
Location: The murky waters of my mind...
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:50 am Post subject: |
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I just find it ironic that they can go on about 'curing' us and wanting there to not be any of us around in a few decades, yet can you imagine what their reaction would be if someone were to propose the eradication of whatever group they belong to?! I can see it now... "I don't need to be cured!" "Genocide! Genocide!" - uhhh, yeah? Look in the mirror for a change why don't you?!
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We are a fever, we are a fever, we ain't born typical...
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alex
Developer
Joined: Jun 14, 2004
Age: 22
Posts: 6312
Location: DC Metro Area (No. VA)
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:42 am Post subject: |
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LeKiwi,
They get away with that type of thinking because they see us as damaged an incomplete people. It's the same way black people were viewed by many people in the south during the Jim Crow period and before and the same way gay people are viewed by quite a few people in uneducated communities. |
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