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Postperson The Daughter of Indifference

Joined: Jul 10, 2004 Age: 51 Posts: 2904 Location: Uz
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:46 pm Post subject: Cheating now acceptable in school exams. |
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What do people think of this stuff? The only advantage I had over NTs at school was that I could pass exams easily. Now it seems they want to make things easier for NTs with 'phone a friend' exams. Or is it just the general dumbing down of the education system.
This is from http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/phone-a-friend-in-school-exams/2008/08/19/1218911717490.html
Phone a friend in exams
Anna Patty Education Editor
August 20, 2008
Latest related coverage
Your Say: Is using the internet during an exam cheating?
A SYDNEY girls' school is redefining the concept of cheating by allowing students to "phone a friend" and use the internet and i-Pods during exams.
Presbyterian Ladies' College at Croydon is giving the assessment method a trial run with year 9 English students and plans to expand it to all subjects by the end of the year.
An English teacher, Dierdre Coleman, who is dean of students in years 7 to 9, is co-ordinating the pilot which she believes has the potential to change the way the Higher School Certificate examinations are run.
The Board of Studies is looking at ways it could incorporate the use of computers in the exams.
Ms Coleman said her students were being encouraged to access information from the internet, their mobile phones and podcasts played on mp3s as part of a series of 40-minute tasks. But to discourage plagiarism, they are required to cite all sources they use.
"In terms of preparing them for the world, we need to redefine our attitudes towards traditional ideas of 'cheating'," Ms Coleman said. "Unless the students have a conceptual understanding of the topic or what they are working on, they can't access bits and pieces of information to support them in a task effectively.
"In their working lives they will never need to carry enormous amounts of information around in their heads. What they will need to do is access information from all their sources quickly and they will need to check the reliability of their information."
A year 9 PLC student, Emily Waight, said she was apprehensive about the new approach when it was introduced.
"I was a bit hesitant because I didn't know how it could help us," she said. "But I don't think it is cheating after having done it twice. It just helps you find information to answer the question appropriately."
A fellow student, Annie Achie, aged 15, said she loved the new method. "Phoning a friend really helped," she said. "It was good to have someone else to talk to and brainstorm some ideas with.
"I phoned my aunty who is pretty good at English. I asked her about the Olympic Games and whether it was a waste of finances. She gave me the idea that they use the money for infrastructure instead of for China's people. I expanded on that idea."
Ms Coleman said the assessment task was set after students had read Martin Luther King's "I have a dream" speech and Dickens' book, A Christmas Carol, as studies in persuasive language.
"They weren't marked on their information about the Olympic Games but on whether they used persuasive language effectively to make their argument."
PLC's headmaster, William McKeith, was inspired to stretch the open-book exam to new technological heights after hearing the views of an international education consultant, Marc Prensky.
Mr Prensky threw out the following challenge to educators in a British Educational Communications and Technology Agency publication: "What if we allowed the use of mobile phones and instant messaging to collect information during exams, redefining such activity from 'cheating' to 'using our tools and including the world in our knowledge base'?
"Our kids already see this on television. 'You can use a lifeline to win $1 million,' said one. 'Why not to pass a stupid test?' I have begun advocating the use of open phone tests … Being able to find and apply the right information becomes more important than having it all in your head." |
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Quatermass Deranged scientist

Joined: Apr 28, 2006 Posts: 17246 Location: The Crucible
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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Citing stuff is fine, in an assignment or an open book exam at Uni, but in school? I mean, come on, if they can't do it, then either the teachers are defective, or the students are. _________________ People and planets and stars will become dust. And the dust will become atoms and the atoms will become... nothing. This is my ultimate victory, Doctor! The destruction of reality itself! |
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deadeyexx Snowy Owl


Joined: Sep 11, 2007 Age: 27 Posts: 128
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm not sure it's cheating. Just questions that would require research. The smarter students do better on open book tests too. |
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n4mwd Phoenix


Joined: Jun 08, 2008 Posts: 663 Location: Palm Beach, FL
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sure there is more to it than the teachers are letting on. I have had open book tests, open notes tests, cheat sheet allowed tests, and even take home tests. The reality is that the questions are considerably more difficult for a take home test than for a proctored test.
For example, on a proctored test, the question might be "True or False" or "Multiple Choice" whereas a take home test might require an essay. I strongly suspect that the "Phone a friend" tests are similar. |
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alex Developer


Joined: Jun 14, 2004 Age: 22 Posts: 6312 Location: DC Metro Area (No. VA)
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| yeah. since when is having an open book test cheating? That article was ridiculous. |
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Postperson The Daughter of Indifference

Joined: Jul 10, 2004 Age: 51 Posts: 2904 Location: Uz
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| PHONE A FRIEND? |
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Warsie OG Balla Representin' Da Souf Sydeeee of Chi-City

Joined: Apr 04, 2008 Age: 17 Posts: 1634 Location: Chicago, IL, USA
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Postperson wrote: | | PHONE A FRIEND? |
in jobs people work in groups and the same idea applies; people in groups helping each other and brainstorming? And looking over things/researching? Isn't it the same? _________________ I am a Star Wars Fan, Warsie here.
9/11 was an inside job
http://www.911truth.org/
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Postperson The Daughter of Indifference

Joined: Jul 10, 2004 Age: 51 Posts: 2904 Location: Uz
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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yeah I know that happens in workplaces, but aspies are strongly disadvantaged in those workplaces.
Unless you're the brainiac everyone wants to phone I don't see this as advantaging aspies either in school or work.
It's a shrinking world for 'what you know' people in favour of 'who you know' people. How does that help us?
The only way I ever got full time work was that there were a few fields where sitting for an exam was the only way in. In my day that was how you got into the public service. there was no interview required. I think even that process has changed. |
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Warsie OG Balla Representin' Da Souf Sydeeee of Chi-City

Joined: Apr 04, 2008 Age: 17 Posts: 1634 Location: Chicago, IL, USA
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Postperson wrote: | | yeah I know that happens in workplaces, but aspies are strongly disadvantaged in those workplaces. |
Doesn't it depend on the workplace? I never had to do a "9 to 5 job" yet; me being 17 and going to community college next week so I'm not sure. Then again given how my mom has complained about some things, arguably there are issues. IIRC aren't some jobs/companies more friendly to Autistic people?
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Unless you're the brainiac everyone wants to phone I don't see this as advantaging aspies either in school or work. |
It does not provide a disad either, the aspie would still have an advantage. Or am I wrong?
| Quote: | It's a shrinking world for 'what you know' people in favour of 'who you know' people. How does that help us?
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you're right. It doesn't. I was thinking that it would be a mutual advantage; everyone supplies some information in collaborative work (like .torrent networks). Then again I forgot that might not happen actually, some people might not like each other, politics and social problems, rank, slackers, etc. I was thinking if they have a similar job (especially if it's a "high-paying" and job requiring degrees, similar people choose similar jobs) it would be easier. Though I seem wrong, sorry.
| Quote: | | The only way I ever got full time work was that there were a few fields where sitting for an exam was the only way in. In my day that was how you got into the public service. there was no interview required. I think even that process has changed. |
yes, just saw your profile; you're 51. You need an interview and have to fit in with all that social stuff, take the hat off at the right time, etc. Yeah it's worse.. _________________ I am a Star Wars Fan, Warsie here.
9/11 was an inside job
http://www.911truth.org/
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catspurr Phoenix


Joined: Jan 16, 2008 Posts: 781
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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homework should be tossed out too. Who really has the time in this day and age to focus on that? Realistically, people when they get jobs don't do homework everyday.
Stop teaching children that honesty is the best policy. It's not realistic in today's society.
Stop teaching about Santa Claus and presents. It's just not up to times.
Phone a friend is very up to date. Kids need to phone a friend during exams because they may one day go on Who Wants to be a Millionaire.
Kids should also have hand held buzzers in class getting ready to respond to questions. They might go on Jeopardy oneday.
There should also be this...gigantic wheel in the middle of english class. Those kids could go onto being wheel of fortune contestants someday. Realistic possibility.
Nothing illogical about this....but what about those who don't have friends and can't bother their parents at work?  |
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claire333 Huh?

Joined: Jun 20, 2008 Posts: 1893 Location: Lost in my own little world.
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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^ Don't forget about the kids who also are not fortunate enough to have cell phones or mp3's with podcast.
Open "book" computer research in class is one thing...but the rest does not seem to level the playing field for a test. _________________ On with the show...This is it. |
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Postperson The Daughter of Indifference

Joined: Jul 10, 2004 Age: 51 Posts: 2904 Location: Uz
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:17 am Post subject: |
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| The particular school this is being trialled in is a middle-class private school in a 'good' suburb of Sydney. Parents would have good incomes. Upper class twits? |
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jrknothead News Junkie

Joined: Aug 04, 2007 Age: 42 Posts: 1110 Location: Tampa Bay, Florida USA
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:22 am Post subject: |
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This type of test would be valuable, not for testing one's knowledge of a subject, but for testing one's ability to quickly research a particular subject. I don't see how the 'phone a friend' option would be useful, because such an option would only test the subject's friend's research skills... _________________ Never let your schooling interfere with your education. - Samuel Clemens |
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tweety_fan Phoenix


Joined: Oct 03, 2007 Posts: 1506
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:27 am Post subject: |
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| me thinks this is just a modern version of the open books tests. designed to test the students ability to gather the required information. it would not be effective if it just tested the friend and not the student taking the test. |
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slowmutant Phoenix


Joined: Feb 14, 2008 Age: 29 Posts: 8640 Location: Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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Public schools keep finding semi-legitimate ways to lower their standards so more kids can graduate.
But that undermines the whole educational process and actually enables kids to be under-achievers. When you're planning to shoot up the place, studying for tests is too much work.
Pretty soon it will only be money-families bribing the schools to cough up diplomas for their sublimely ADD and sugar-addicted spawn.  _________________ Behold, I stand at the door and knock ... |
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