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LOOKING FOR ANSWERS BROTHER MIGHT HAVE ASPERGERS
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Trinna
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:58 pm    Post subject: LOOKING FOR ANSWERS BROTHER MIGHT HAVE ASPERGERS Reply with quote

Hello Everyone,

Thanks for taking the time to read this post. I’ll try to be as brief as possible. I am 39 yrs old and I have a brother who is 37 and we, his family, believe that he has Asperger’s Syndrome or something very similar. I am writing this post to get any opinions or information on the matter.

My brother was the product of a 2 ½ day labor, why my mother’s labor was not induced is not known but we suspect my brother suffered some amount of oxygen deprivation. He spoke late and has always been clumsy and had no friends and kept to himself as a child. He was terribly bullied in middle and high school and was in special education and had speech therapy. For a short time he was sent to a school for children with serious discipline and aggression problems but my parents had him removed from there since he was not aggressive and only acted out in self defense to merciless bullying. He is dyslexic and also has generalized anxiety and occasional panic attacks. He also has times when he is very, very happy singing opera all over the house and then has times when his mood is very flat and he is quiet and he can stay in his room for days at a time.

Our father has a son from a previous marriage who is socially awkward and inappropriate at times, a low achiever, has had a string of low paying odd jobs and is currently supported by a girlfriend. Our uncle (our father’s brother) also has a son with learning disabilities and does not work and lives with his parents, he is in his late 20’s. I fear there is a family connection to all of this.

My parents wanted him to get some type of vocational training but he had serious problems learning, although verbally he is really advanced and is very articulate and can read very well. He worked at fast food places and had problems like not following directions completely and breaking things, not only from dropping things but also from trying to force things into places they did not fit and then breaking them. To this day if he is given something that has parts or has to be put together he frustrates easily and often just forces things into the place he thinks it goes and usually breaks it or damages it. He was also always being taken advantage of by other co-workers who would make him do their jobs because he did not know how to assert and protect himself.

He can add very well and very fast but can not figure out the sales tax on a small item and often drops money on the street because he crumples them up in his pockets. He can be very forgetful and you need to repeat something a million times to him and he will still complete some part of the task wrong if at all.

If you did not know my brother and saw him walking down the street you would not know anything was wrong with him. If he spoke with you there would also be a good chance that you would not detect anything wrong. It would take various meetings with him before you noticed something was wrong and it would probably have to do with some social awkwardness.

The other day he was singing while bumping the gas of our mother’s car. Some people around him looked uncomfortable. He was whistling the tune to “Living La Vida Loca” and then sing the lines to the chorus of the song and then he would switch off and start singing the 80’s country song “My Baby is American Made” and he kept switching between these songs until he was finished bumping the gas and he never noticed the people around him looking at him strangely.

He is very clumsy and can not drive a car. He likes television shows like Judge Judy and Sabrina the Teenage Witch. He has 3 cats and plays with them all the time but does so in the way a child would. He expresses attraction to women but is afraid of them and shies away from talking to them. He has a crush on Oprah, certain local tv broadcasters and lots of different soap opera actresses.

It may seem like I am painting a very juvenile picture of my brother but this is what we find so complex about his situation. He is everything that I have stated above but he also can read his local paper or Smithsonian magazine, memorizes street directions perfectly after only being someplace once and can diagnose most automotive problems. Since a small child he was fixated on cars and trucks and can tell you all about the body, the parts, years, models etc….but he can not drive one. And if you asked him to change your oil he would either drain out the wrong fluid or bend some part trying to force it to fit into place.

Our family has never heard of Aspergers until a documentary we saw last week. The young man in the film was a lot like my brother. What also makes this painful is that my brother knows something is wrong with him and he often asks my mother what he could do to help himself. He recently asked our mom if eating only organic foods would help him think better. So for now he is eating lots of homemade mashed potatoes, cabbage, corn on the cob and lots of fresh raw fruits. He is also afraid of cancer and he read that apricots prevent cancer so he had me go out and get him lots of them.

My father retired to a small town 12 years ago with my mom and my brother. There is no employment there and my parents knew his pattern by then and decided to just keep him around the house because with only 1 fast food restaurant in town it would not be long before my brother was fired anyway, so he basically spends his days with my parents doing supervised chores around the house or yard and going out with them into town to buy groceries or other stuff like that.

If any of this sounds familiar or possibly like Aspergers I would love to hear from all of you. This is the first step we are taking on the matter. Our father recently died and I am the executor of his will and have been very busy so it would be at least 3-6 months before I would have any time to take him to see someone, a specialist that is. But that certainly is one of our goals for him. I thought this would be a good place to start.

I am open to any and all comments.

Thank you all for taking the time to read this and God bless,

Trinna
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2ukenkerl
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You aren't really describing AS. It sounds like HFA or something else. And I doubt very much that oxygen deprivation has anything to do with Autism.

Last edited by 2ukenkerl on Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your brother really suffered oxygen to his brain, sounds like brain damage then so I can't say if he might have AS or be on the spectrum because brain damage can also mimic the symptoms. Only the specialists would know if he has autism or not because they know what to separate.
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lionesss
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have a history of speech delay, then it would be HFA, not AS. If that were the case I would probably have been dx'ed with AS and the reason I was not is because of my late speech development and besides.. I still don't have enough symptoms for AS. And my son inhaled meconium at birth and we thought that he lost oxygen for a brief time but he didn't. The did an MRI on his brain and there were no signs of any damage. He is HFA and I think more than anything, genetics played a role because so am I.
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I was told that I have PDD-NOS and ADHD- in other words, mild AS with a history of speech delay. I personally think its best to say that I am just plain under the spectrum!
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, a lot of people on the spectrum had difficult births with a short amount of oxygen deprivation. I don't know if one is related to the other, or if it's a coincidence, but it definitely is interesting. I had this experience. My son did. My two autistic cousins did. My three godchildren did. Several of my students did. All are on the spectrum. So, if it's not connected, that's a hell of a coincidence.

Sounds like your brother is definitely somewhere on the spectrum to me. If you live in the states and you want to get him evaluated, social security and/or the Bureau of developmental disabilities will evaluate him in order to determine if he's eligible for services. Also, once he's evaluated for services, there are day services, social services, and recreational services for people on the spectrum. There also is vocational rehabilitation which will also evaluate and pay for services.

I don't know about how these things work in other countries, but I do know how it works in the states.
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Liverbird
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, history of speech delay is no longer an indicator to differentiate between HFA and AS. I know lots of AS boys with a marked history of speech issues. My boy is one of them. I'm a girl and have no speech problems. I have students who are diagnosed on both sides of the HFA and AS line and have speech delays or not interchangeably. There's no pattern.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Liverbird wrote:
Also, history of speech delay is no longer an indicator to differentiate between HFA and AS.

Then what is?

I didn't even know there were any other indicators.
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Mage
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HFA is not a diagnostic term at all in the united states, I use it simply because it's easier to explain than PDD-NOS.

For the OP, the answers you seek will be found through lengthy interviews between your brother and a professional who is trained specifically to diagnose autism in adults. Any possible guesses people write here are guesses, and nothing more.
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Liverbird
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, there are indicators when doing retrospective diagnosis (especially for older people). What I see from my students and their diagnoses is that the speech issues aren't being used as the big indicator as much. They are looking more at habits and routines. They look at eating habits and sensory issues a lot, it seems as well.
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Liverbird
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mage wrote:
HFA is not a diagnostic term at all in the united states, I use it simply because it's easier to explain than PDD-NOS.

For the OP, the answers you seek will be found through lengthy interviews between your brother and a professional who is trained specifically to diagnose autism in adults. Any possible guesses people write here are guesses, and nothing more.


That's not true Mage, they are using HFA in the US. I have several kids that have HFA diagnoses. They tend to be either my lower functioning AS kids or my PDD kids on the upper end.

I also agree that our answers are mostly guesses. Some of them might actually be pretty educated guesses. But still guesses.
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2ukenkerl
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Liverbird wrote:
Also, history of speech delay is no longer an indicator to differentiate between HFA and AS. I know lots of AS boys with a marked history of speech issues. My boy is one of them. I'm a girl and have no speech problems. I have students who are diagnosed on both sides of the HFA and AS line and have speech delays or not interchangeably. There's no pattern.


Actually, that isn't correct. It is made more tolerant of a delay, but NOT a real long one. As for WHEN that happened, some have ALWAYS had that even as a requirement, even if not in the DSM.

Many here have spoken of how so many psychiatrists have had crazy opinions, and even stated their decisions were based on info TOTALLY contrary to the DSM.

The fact that you said "There's no pattern." SCREAMS that!

dougn,

It has gotten SO bad that AS people could EASILY be considered HFA, and some HFA people could be declared AS. The fact that things are ignored, and the AS definition is being made more tolerant, means that perhaps all HFA people could be called AS! That isn't correct, or reasonable, but it is still being done.

You can even see some posts on here that have, and my step mother that worked to fund special needs programs has, talked about how HFA kids require more, or get more, funding because of greater needs. That is because AS seems to apparently be mostly sensory and social, and HFA is affected more in other areas. GRANTED it is more involved than that, but things won't get as much funding if they aren't as apparent to others.

Mage,

I'm pretty sure the DSM DOES have a note under kanners defining a floor for HFA.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems to me that your brother could be on the spectrum with co-morbid bi-polar. He sounds simultaneously fun and frustrating. I think I would like him very much until he broke something I cared about.
I wish your parents would hook him up with vocational rehabilitation. It seems like he could do a job of evaluating car prices or detailing cars or keeping a car lot clean or a gas station attendant or....
Maybe he's not bored, but I would be with nothing to do. Even a volunteer job would give him a chance to meet other people, hopefully those who won't take advantage of him or bully him. Can he sing in a church choir or community choirs? Maybe he could join a local actor's group and be one of the background singers.
Have you looking into your local ARC to see what services they might have that your brother could use. He needs to learn how to live away from your parents before they die. Grieving and moving into who knows what would be very frightening. I made sure my wookie daughter got her own home in her late twenties. The first year was absolute hell on all of us, but now she is very happy with her home and her companion care provider, and I am happy to be retired from frustrating her and being beaten. We moved three blocks away from her house and we babysit from time to time and make sure the house parts are all working.
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lionesss
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Liverbird wrote:
Also, history of speech delay is no longer an indicator to differentiate between HFA and AS. I know lots of AS boys with a marked history of speech issues. My boy is one of them. I'm a girl and have no speech problems. I have students who are diagnosed on both sides of the HFA and AS line and have speech delays or not interchangeably. There's no pattern.


Not that it matters all that much (well for some reason to me it does) since I am under the spectrum anyway but I am wondering if I should get a second opinion about this. I have a lot more AS traits than autistic, thats for sure. My psych dx'ed me with PDD-NOS because of my late speech history AND the fact that I am overall quite social (but I wasn't always that way! I observed and learned)
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dougn
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2ukenkerl wrote:
It has gotten SO bad that AS people could EASILY be considered HFA, and some HFA people could be declared AS. The fact that things are ignored, and the AS definition is being made more tolerant, means that perhaps all HFA people could be called AS! That isn't correct, or reasonable, but it is still being done.

I thought the difference between Asperger's and autism was that people with Asperger's never have mental retardation and didn't have a speech delay.

High-functioning autists don't have mental retardation... Doesn't that only leave the speech delay?

At least, this is what I got from reading the DSM-IV and ICD-10 criteria. There must be other criteria out there I'm not aware of.

lionesss wrote:
Not that it matters all that much (well for some reason to me it does) since I am under the spectrum anyway but I am wondering if I should get a second opinion about this. I have a lot more AS traits than autistic, thats for sure.

Aren't all Asperger's traits also autistic traits? It seems to me it's the same list of traits, except the Asperger's list is shorter.
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2ukenkerl
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dougn wrote:
2ukenkerl wrote:
It has gotten SO bad that AS people could EASILY be considered HFA, and some HFA people could be declared AS. The fact that things are ignored, and the AS definition is being made more tolerant, means that perhaps all HFA people could be called AS! That isn't correct, or reasonable, but it is still being done.

I thought the difference between Asperger's and autism was that people with Asperger's never have mental retardation and didn't have a speech delay.

High-functioning autists don't have mental retardation... Doesn't that only leave the speech delay?

At least, this is what I got from reading the DSM-IV and ICD-10 criteria. There must be other criteria out there I'm not aware of.


Dougn said AS people NEVER have MR. HFA at least USED to have a lower floor. As for the speech delay, that was changed so that most now fit. It is almost like if a kid is heard to mutter one word by 3yo, they are AS. Of course, now even THAT isn't observed. BTW this milestone, for NORMAL kids, is supposed to be 50% intelligible sentences by 2yo.

dougn wrote:
lionesss wrote:
Not that it matters all that much (well for some reason to me it does) since I am under the spectrum anyway but I am wondering if I should get a second opinion about this. I have a lot more AS traits than autistic, thats for sure.

Aren't all Asperger's traits also autistic traits? It seems to me it's the same list of traits, except the Asperger's list is shorter.


Yeah, it IS interesting. The IDEA about AS was obviously to define a more benign(as far as the public is concerned) type of autism. Although it DOES have social and possibly physical problems that Kanner's can have, it doesn't have many of the other problems that Kanner's can have. It SPECIFICALLY excludes many problems, like self help skills. Sadly, some "professionals" don't see that and have blurred the line so that people are debating whether a distinction should even exist!
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