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Janissy
Phoenix
Joined: May 06, 2009
Age: 43
Posts: 1104
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 Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:06 am Post subject: |
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[ | Quote: | quote="idiocratik
There's a lot of attractive people in the world (physically), and I can see it even in the people I don't personally find attractive. I think most people see someone who is "hot" and immediately try to talk to them. For me, I skip over typical beauty and look for unique qualities. My celebrity crushes have always been over the outcast character: Christina Ricci, Thora Birch, Janeane Garofalo, Ellen Page, etc.
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As I read through your list of attractive women, I pictured each of them in my mind. Then I noticed it isn't just their outsiderness that they have in common. They all have the same shape of face, round on the top with a somewhat pointy chin: a heart-shaped face. I googled pictures to make sure I wasn't just imagining it. Then I googled two other women commonly considered attractive, Angelina Jolie and Paris Hilton. They both have a very different shape of face, both have a jaw line that is far more square than pointy.
What am I saying? That even when you try just as hard as you can to only look at personality and convince yourself that it's personality only that you are attracted to, everybody has a template of what they consider compellingly attractive. If somebody is objectively attractive (Angelina Jolie) but doesn't quite fit your personal template, you can acknowledge the attractiveness objectively but won't feel drawn to it. Everybody's got their something. This is not just an NT thing. Pull up pictures of all the women on your list and then pull up pictures of Angelina Jolie and Paris Hilton and look just at the shape of their faces and you'll see what I mean. |
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idiocratik
Deinonychus
Joined: Aug 13, 2009
Age: 28
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| Janissy wrote: |
As I read through your list of attractive women, I pictured each of them in my mind. Then I noticed it isn't just their outsiderness that they have in common. They all have the same shape of face, round on the top with a somewhat pointy chin: a heart-shaped face. I googled pictures to make sure I wasn't just imagining it. Then I googled two other women commonly considered attractive, Angelina Jolie and Paris Hilton. They both have a very different shape of face, both have a jaw line that is far more square than pointy.
What am I saying? That even when you try just as hard as you can to only look at personality and convince yourself that it's personality only that you are attracted to, everybody has a template of what they consider compellingly attractive. If somebody is objectively attractive (Angelina Jolie) but doesn't quite fit your personal template, you can acknowledge the attractiveness objectively but won't feel drawn to it. Everybody's got their something. This is not just an NT thing. Pull up pictures of all the women on your list and then pull up pictures of Angelina Jolie and Paris Hilton and look just at the shape of their faces and you'll see what I mean. |
There's nothing about Angelina Jolie or Paris Hilton that I like, but I do see what you mean.
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"Everything is backwards. Everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information, and religion destroys spirituality." |
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Yupa
Avatar of Evil
Joined: May 15, 2005
Age: 19
Posts: 1404
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:14 am Post subject: |
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A bit late to the club here, but my take on the issue is that most self-proclaimed "nice guys" are actually not, in fact, nice guys, but people with severely destructive personality flaws trying to make themselves out to seem like more suitable partners than they actually are.
If a man calls himself a "nice guy," he is, in all probability, lying. |
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idiocratik
Deinonychus
Joined: Aug 13, 2009
Age: 28
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| Yupa wrote: | A bit late to the club here, but my take on the issue is that most self-proclaimed "nice guys" are actually not, in fact, nice guys, but people with severely destructive personality flaws trying to make themselves out to seem like more suitable partners than they actually are.
If a man calls himself a "nice guy," he is, in all probability, lying. |
Maybe in many cases, but I don't lie about myself, so I don't fit in with that assessment. I'm nice, and I don't have to try to be, or pretend to be. I may be aloof a lot of the time, but that's all.
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"Everything is backwards. Everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information, and religion destroys spirituality." |
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MikeH106
Phoenix
Joined: May 20, 2006
Age: 26
Posts: 1103
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| Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| Yupa wrote: | | A bit late to the club here, but my take on the issue is that most self-proclaimed "nice guys" are actually not, in fact, nice guys, but people with severely destructive personality flaws trying to make themselves out to seem like more suitable partners than they actually are. |
A few pages back, I made a remark based on a comment by Friedrich Nietzsche that I'll expound on here.
"What do they really want? At least to represent justice, love, wisdom, superiority -- that is the ambition of the 'lowest,' the sick. And how skillful such an ambition makes them! Admire above all the forger's skill with which the stamp of virtue, even the ring, the golden-sounding ring of virtue, is here counterfeited. They monopolize virtue, these weak, hopelessly sick people..." -Nietzsche
In a nutshell, sick people are nice. But is it an unavoidable fact that all nice people are sick (or flawed, or unattractive)? We can't infer that so readily.
Various passages of the Genealogy of Morals give me the impression that Nietzsche has drawn a picture of man as a sadistic species and then pointed, saying, "That's who we are." There is no fallacy, according to Nietzsche, because what sadists do, they do out of necessity and human nature. But there is a fallacy if he attempts to argue merely from past human actions that man must continue to be sadistic.
If a government turns a country into a violent nightmare of war and cruelty, then the people who are left weak, starving, and wounded might be 'the nice ones,' and even the only nice ones, but you can't generalize to the infinite future and proclaim that being nice, as a trait alone, in every society and at all times, goes hand-in-hand with being sick.
Maybe, one day, we will come to the noble realization of an obvious fact: that other people, like us, have a property called consciousness, which is no mere organ but a feeling of being someone, of having a point of view. To acknowledge that someone else's point of view coexists with your own is to make an intellectual leap worthy of the highest praise.
Edit: I just want to add that I haven't read enough of Nietzsche to conclude that he believes man is sadistic, but he at least writes that man is a 'bird of prey,' which may not always be the case.
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SINsister
the towering inferno
Joined: May 26, 2005
Posts: 1297
Location: six feet over
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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My definition of a "nice" guy is one who's respectful, trustworthy, and honest.
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LePetitPrince
Phoenix
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Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Posts: 5130
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:37 am Post subject: |
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Deeplove55
Not true about us being jerks is why we date them. Nothing to do with that. There are a lot of men young men out there who do not want a relationship or anything serious like a woman wants early on. we are just different like that so there are very few guys out there that do want something real like we do but hard to find. Which is why we date jerks we are used to them being seen and around and mostly pupulating every where we go. Its a habit like any other that we complain about but don't know - A month ago
Answerer Deeplove55:
You make absolutely no sense: you contradicted yourself 3 times in 1 paragraph.
What kinds of real things do you want, and do you expect to find it on Fling.com?
You're a perfect example of what I mean: women can do no wrong, men are to blame for all the bad in relationships.
B.S. That's sexist and discriminatory. - A month ago
Deeplove55
How to get away from it because of the bait. jerks, losers, bad guys have excitememnt and confidence and machoness about that turns us on compared to a nice guy who is boring. we want the good guy with exciting qualities, not too nice because we like a little agression. good guys are so hard to find and the very few we may lukily find aren't exciting or physically attractive. Jerks just don't treat us right but they have the look and the attitude we love in men. Good guys treat us right but we are not used to - A month ago
Answerer Deeplove55:
Once again, you're contradicting yourself, refusing to answer direct questions, and making zero sense. - A month ago
Deeplove55
Used to it and don't know how to handle it or think its too good too be true and its scary to finally get something good when for so long treated bad. Afraid we will lose this good guy so we stay in our comfortr zones but some of us learn that we have to just take that chance. Abe patient and wait. We learn if we want something fast and easy, you will get a jerk. if you want something real and right, you will get a good guy which will not be easy. - A month ago
Deeplove55
What is up with you, manafon? and this fling thing? I been off that site for like 3 months now and its off subject. We are not talking about me here. So y sound like your mad at me? you don't even know me. So what's the problem? ok, you don't understand me because you are so quick to judge. Can you get off the fling thing? that was a very long time ago. - A month ago
Answerer Deeplove55:
You use words from the English language, but arrange them in a way that makes absolutely no sense. I'm not being a smartass. I simply cannot understand what you mean. You contract yourself and you ignore the questions and points of others as if they don't exist.
Have you been diagnosed with a psychiatric or neurological disorder? - A month ago
Answerer Deeplove55:
Okay, back on topic. This is a yes/no question:
Do you believe that some women can act like jerks in some situations?
Yes or no? - A month ago
Deeplove55
But you couldn't answer my questions to you. Something is wrong with you or going on in your life because just your response to this question was mean to say that us girls are jerks to be dating jerks. ignorant answer ever seriously and for some words mispelled, I'm typing fast at times and don't go back to correct. Anyone with common sense unlike you can guess what I meant to say but obviously your intellect is low. Second, This is a forum for discussions and debates of all sorts, no certain rule on - A month ago
Answerer Deeplove55:
I guessed it was a waste of my time to try squeezing a simple, straightforward answer from you.
Oh well. I tried.
Sigh.
Good luck.
God bless. - A month ago
http://www.girlsaskguys.com/Behavior-Questions/107317-why-do-girls-tend-to-fall-for-jerks.html
not only the aspie guys complaint about this issue..
Last edited by LePetitPrince on Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Maggiedoll
Loon
Joined: Jun 05, 2009
Age: 25
Posts: 1649
Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| MrLoony wrote: | | If you're a "nice guy," then shouldn't you be caring about the quality of the emotional side of the relationship? Girls who go for jerks and whatnot care considerably less about the emotional side than the girls who go for nice guys. Nice guys are rare, but something that isn't quite as well known is that nice girls are rare as well. Nice guys get discouraged because they never seem to meet the nice girls. It just takes a while. |
QFT
And again, people keep getting confused on what it means to be "nice." This goes for guys and girls. Being nice does NOT mean being a pushover.
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idiocratik
Deinonychus
Joined: Aug 13, 2009
Age: 28
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| Maggiedoll wrote: |
And again, people keep getting confused on what it means to be "nice." This goes for guys and girls. Being nice does NOT mean being a pushover. |
Amen, cos that's the last thing I am. I take no bullshit, and I do not tolerate mind games. I know honesty when I hear it, and I know bullshit when I hear it. I may have been easily taken advantage of as a child, but I had many years to learn my lesson.
I'm nice in the sense of respect, courtesy, and generosity. Once I feel that someone is trying to take advantage of me, it all stops, and I break all contact with the person. I think this might be part of why they say people with AS have problems keeping friends. It's because these "friends" are frauds and we see through it.
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"Everything is backwards. Everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information, and religion destroys spirituality." |
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Shebakoby
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 06, 2009
Age: 36
Posts: 648
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps the 'nice' guys that are scared off by girls taking the initiative are scared for some other reasons;
-perhaps they KNOW of a dealbreaker that they are positive will make them incompatible with that particular girl. But instead of talking to the person about it, they simply run because they are not comfortable discussing such things.
-Additionally, they may have another girl in mind and are waiting for the one they have in mind to take interest, running scared from the one that actually approaches because that is not the one they want.
-they may have been taught that women pursuing men is 'wrong' and thus their belief system causes them to reject any girl that shows signs of taking initiative. A corrollary to that is, they're afraid that a girl who takes the initiative will try to run his life.
-they may already have a girlfriend and just don't want to say. |
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kingtut3
Snowy Owl
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
Posts: 139
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| What women look for in a guy varies from woman to woman. I know that guys with AS tend to attract girls once they get on the first date. Getting the first date is hard. There are two things I am doing, building up confidence and learning how to ask a girl out. I have two people who are supporting me. One is a guy and one is a girl. It's nice to have perspectives from both genders. |
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ttqs84
Snowy Owl
Joined: Dec 07, 2008
Age: 25
Posts: 130
Location: Down in the dumps
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| SINsister wrote: | | My definition of a "nice" guy is one who's respectful, trustworthy, and honest. |
point well taken!
i think the women who date bad boys are just being stupid. they just don't realize what they're getting themselves into and they'll regret being with them in the end.
Pamela Anderson is a prime example of those kinds of women.
ever watch Tool Academy? yeah, very pathetic indeed. |
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Tim_Tex
Bunnies!!!
Joined: Jul 03, 2004
Age: 29
Posts: 30814
Location: To Be Determined
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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^^ Seconded.
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If he caught him, there wouldn't be any more Road Runner. You wouldn't like that, would you? |
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Hector
Frankie Teardrop
Joined: Mar 11, 2008
Age: 23
Posts: 2010
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:44 am Post subject: |
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| kingtut3 wrote: | | I know that guys with AS tend to attract girls once they get on the first date. |
Not quite, in my experience. |
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Anonamess
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Sep 23, 2009
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| ttqs84 wrote: | | SINsister wrote: | | My definition of a "nice" guy is one who's respectful, trustworthy, and honest. |
point well taken!
i think the women who date bad boys are just being stupid. they just don't realize what they're getting themselves into and they'll regret being with them in the end.
Pamela Anderson is a prime example of those kinds of women.
ever watch Tool Academy? yeah, very pathetic indeed. |
I think it's more of a subconscious biological instinct. In a strictly animalistic sense, the female is the caregiver and bearer of children. The male is the protector and provider. In the same way that a (human) male is often attracted to a shapely woman (curvy hips indicating an ability to bear children, ample breasts indicating ability to nurse/feed the children) women are attracted to "bad boys". The "bad boy" stands out indicating that he is an alpha male or leader. The "bad boy" tendency to not conform to the socialy and be a risk-taker indicates that he is fearless and agressive. This translates to him being a good protector and hunter (provider).
Where the problem comes in is that, of all the creatures in the animal kingdom, humans seem to be the species that have strayed the most from our basic animalistic nature as it pertains to interpersonal relations and societal strucure. It's when these instincts and impulses make their way to the surface that we have trouble. Even if we consciously know that a curvy woman isn't necessarily more fertile or capable of caring for young (or even necessarily interested in procreating at all), she is still perceived as more attractive to/by men. Likewise, we may know consciously that the "bad boy" will quite possibly not be a good mate, he is nonetheless attractive and intriguing.
Personally, I like the shy sweet guys. In my experience, they are actually only calm/shy/reserved on the surface. These seem to be the guys who, once you draw them out of their shell are quite fiery, passionate, and exciting. Their quietness has a mystic allure that draws me in every time. I guess I get a kick out of knowing that there is soooo much more to that guy that everyone passes off as "just shy" and that his secret is safe with me. hehe |
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