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Deinonychus
Joined: Sep 17, 2006
Age: 20
Posts: 374
Location: Untied States
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 Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:48 pm Post subject: Writing a whole song |
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| Has anyone else had problems writing an entire, cohesive song (instead of just a part or two)? It seems like I just have all these isolated riffs laying around and nothing to do with them... Also, any tips for coming up with good chord progressions? Musicians, your thoughts would be appreciated... |
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ShawnWilliam
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Joined: Aug 27, 2008
Posts: 1462
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:25 am Post subject: |
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Hey mate.. as for chord progressions, well.. I gues that's the most important part of songwriting.. you say you have a lot of riffs lieing around and it's probably because you can't make sense out of it songwise.. in the end it's really all about chord progression.. If yo come up with that first, you can doodle around enough to make it seem like a riff later on.
mind you I dont know what kind of song you want to write.. I've written a lot of songs and it only seems possible to write something if i have something in my head.. or you try making up vocal melody while you're experimenting with chords, that way you dont shoot yourself in the foot, and in draws everything together easier.
My recomendation is to start out simple.. let the song grow.. start out with chords and sing along to it, and let the song turn into something else.. that will be a reference point for the future and a gateway to good songwriting.
also probably the best peice of advice is don't play what you think people want to hear.. if it sounds good to you then it must be good.. create your own world. |
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Aradford
Velociraptor
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Joined: Jul 27, 2007
Posts: 444
Location: Canada
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Dasha
Blue Jay
Joined: Jan 09, 2008
Posts: 89
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:43 am Post subject: Re: Writing a whole song |
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| - wrote: | | Has anyone else had problems writing an entire, cohesive song (instead of just a part or two)? It seems like I just have all these isolated riffs laying around and nothing to do with them... Also, any tips for coming up with good chord progressions? Musicians, your thoughts would be appreciated... |
Put them all in slips of paper, draw them out of a hat, write the parts down in that order and name the song "Trouble writing."
You'll have your song in finished in no time  |
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Jonny
Velociraptor
Joined: Feb 10, 2005
Posts: 462
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:00 am Post subject: |
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Yup I have this problem all the time. I just cant seem to flesh out my ideas.
I think knowledge of music theory will help with this to some degree.
It might be useful to sit down and plan out how the song will progress rather than doodle on an instrument for new riffs. |
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JohnHopkins
In no way offensive to anybody. Honest.
Joined: Nov 20, 2007
Age: 20
Posts: 2059
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:42 am Post subject: |
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I never really stop writing, so I get this problem sometimes.
I have two solutions:
Dadaism. Take two fragments, cut them up and piece them back together randomly, making one song. Seems tricky? Well it worked for David Bowie in 1972, cause that's how he wrote Ziggy Stardust.
Stitch together two songs of similar themes. You just end up having two kind of orchestral movements within 3 minutes instead of. |
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ShawnWilliam
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 27, 2008
Posts: 1462
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Jonny wrote: | Yup I have this problem all the time. I just cant seem to flesh out my ideas.
I think knowledge of music theory will help with this to some degree.
It might be useful to sit down and plan out how the song will progress rather than doodle on an instrument for new riffs. |
music theory wont take you so far.. you'll probably get bored.. but what doesnt work for one person might for another..
practice makes perfect, thats all there is to it.. dont talk it, walk it |
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JohnHopkins
In no way offensive to anybody. Honest.
Joined: Nov 20, 2007
Age: 20
Posts: 2059
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Theory is useful, though. I try to use it as little as possible - or rather, use it so I can counteract it - but knowing it in the first place is useful. Knowing what chords sound good together, etc. |
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ShawnWilliam
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Joined: Aug 27, 2008
Posts: 1462
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| knowing what chords sound good together comes from playing them lots and learning with your ears.. you cant write a song without hearing what sounds good to you personally, but i agree with learning new chords and things like that.. |
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Jonny
Velociraptor
Joined: Feb 10, 2005
Posts: 462
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with what you are saying, practice does make perfect and a lot of talented artists out there who dont know music theory.
But was just wondering, are you are fan of classical music? |
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JohnHopkins
In no way offensive to anybody. Honest.
Joined: Nov 20, 2007
Age: 20
Posts: 2059
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Learning theory is ALWAYS useful. Learning why things go together, etc. The trick is to just not get locked into it. |
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ShawnWilliam
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 27, 2008
Posts: 1462
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Jonny wrote: | I agree with what you are saying, practice does make perfect and a lot of talented artists out there who dont know music theory.
But was just wondering, are you are fan of classical music? |
I like classical music.. i can pick up an acoustic and write a random classical song. . it's always come really easy to me. . but it's not the kind of music that i write normally because it's almost too easy to write.. i used to write spanish sounding stuff too but they are very similar when it comes to acoustics..
im assuming you mean orchestra type stuff though, and yeah i do |
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ShawnWilliam
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 27, 2008
Posts: 1462
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| JohnHopkins wrote: | | Learning theory is ALWAYS useful. Learning why things go together, etc. The trick is to just not get locked into it. |
yeah, for me just learning new chords does the trick for me, but i suppose it depends what kind of music you're trying to play.. ive learned lots of music theory in bits and peices but that was only from experience, learning cover songs and things of that nature. |
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mariag
Blue Jay
Joined: May 29, 2007
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah i agree with that too. I had theory lessons for 4 years when younger and got quite bored really didnt seem to "understand" music cos all i did was reading sheets and learning notes by heart...and thru practice of course. But thats the way it works for classical training, you have to study for too many year before you start understanding how music really works: that is, mainly CHORDS!!!
I wished i was taught that from the very beginning, i would be mozart by now! !LOL (just kidding)
The thing is i stopped my lessons, due to different reasons when i was 15, and because i though it is "impossible " to learn music on your own!?!?!?  why the hell did i think that back then???
So i didnt play piano for about 14 years, till last year when thaks to a friend and youtube, made me change my mind and helped me see how easy it is to learn and understand music just by watching other ppl doing covers, tutorials and i have learnt so much over this year, wayyy wayyy more than all 4 years when i was having lessons..
Now i can say i understand music, still a lot to learn of course, but in 6 moths i learned how to play blues, boogie some jazz songs, easy ones of course, latin music...things i woud never ever imagined i could learn and all by my self!!! free!!!!!!!!!!!!!yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh
Thanks to Saint Youtube!!!!!!!
Anyone uploading videos, covers or tutorials in youtube?? plz let us know it would be nice to see and learn from each other. |
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crackedpleasures
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 14, 2007
Posts: 1777
Location: In between the bright lights and the far unlit unknown, CZ
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| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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I only write lyrics/poems so I cannot comment on writing actual music, but also in terms of lyrics it happens quite often that I come up with a few really good lines and then have troubles to find inspiration to complete the poem/lyric. A good chorus is a start, but if you run out of inspiration to write the rest of the lyrics without losing quality then there is problems. I usually solve this by writing the part I really like down and then put it aside, sometimes a few days later I suddenly get the inspiration for the rest of the lyrics and complete the song. Some well known musicians wrote their biggest hits over the course of several days by the way, Nirvana being a good example, Lithium was written in 3 or 4 days...
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You did it again, yes, you in the mirror
You put your faith in a cruel world...
All my dead friends come to haunt, harm and hinder
Never letting go, here to drag me down to hell
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