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Beano
Emu Egg
Joined: Sep 07, 2008
Posts: 3
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 Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:01 pm Post subject: Desperate advice needed |
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| My son was recently diagnosed with AS. He is 17 and we have been living under the diagnosis of ADHD since 3rd grade. I always felt that it was something else. No medicines have ever worked. He has been stealing since he was little. Pencils, batteries, remotes, lighters, cell phones, knives, pens, underwear, keys, credit cards and now a laptop. I can always tell when he has done something wrong as he gets very moody and when the item is discovered, he is euphoric. Also, he doesn't really hide the items that he takes. He is within weeks of his 18th birthday which means he will be arrested if this continues. We were going to have him hospitalized this week and when the mental hospital didn't have room, he asked if he could drive home. His language doesn't match the situation. He was even making comments on our driving skills as we were headed for the hospital. It makes no sense. I don't know where to turn. Should we do a "scared straight" type of deal at the juvenile detention center? Is this AS or a conduct disorder? He is generally a sweet kid but has no friends. He is flunking at school and this latest incident has gotten him suspended with recommendations for an alternate school (the type of school where they send the druggie kids). We are at a crossroads. If the school kicks him out where do we go? We both work so home school isn't the answer. I have an IEP meeting on Friday with some experts coming in. He has gotten into no trouble at school and has been doing fine this semester. The incident happened at his Co-op job that we did not want him placed in but the school did it anyway. What should we do? This is totally destroying the entire family. I feel like I may have a nervous breakdown. What is this stealing coming from? |
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DW_a_mom
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 1251
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:04 pm Post subject: Re: Desperate advice needed |
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| Beano wrote: |
Should we do a "scared straight" type of deal at the juvenile detention center? Is this AS or a conduct disorder? |
NO, NO and NO.
You cannot "scare straight" an AS child, because the source of the behavior is most likely totally different.
My guess? He's crying out for help. He's crying, "please, pay attention to me. Please, someone, understand me. I am so confused, I don't understand the world around me. Will you help me?" When you find what he has stolen, he may be smiling because he has affirmation that someone paid attention enough to figure it out.
AS individuals react to the stresses in their lives. He is experiencing stress, doesn't know how to cope, and somewhere along the line he found this as his way of expressing it.
AS individuals are stressed by so many things that seem odd to us. My son was deathly afraid of automatic flush toilets for a while. Some AS hear the electricity humming through the walls and can't stand it. He may not know himself, but someone needs to finally ASK. All these years he may have buried his own feelings about things that bothered him because they didn't seem to bother anyone else, and he was afraid of being called nuts.
AS is NOT a mental health issue. It is NOT a behavior issue (although it certainly can lead to behavior issues). These individuals have NEEDS that are very different from our own and that are very difficult for the world we live in to meet.
| Beano wrote: |
What should we do? This is totally destroying the entire family. I feel like I may have a nervous breakdown. What is this stealing coming from? |
I have a suggestion that you won't like, but I want you to think about it. Your parenting instincts are good, you always knew the ADHD didn't fit, and what I think your son needs now is your undivided attention. I work, too, and I know how quickly we get tied to our obligations, but what I think your son needs is YOU. Is there any way that you could arrange a 6 month leave of absence from your job? To sit down and TALK to your son, find out what he is REALLY thinking and feeling, and for him to know that you REALLY DO want to know, and will BELIEVE him even if his answers seem crazy. To shadow him through his day and notice his reactions to various things going on around him. To help him negotiate the waters of life. For him to know, by your actions and attention, just how important it is to you for him to feel comfortable, safe, and understood by someone.
Not to say he shouldn't have limits and consequences, but because he NEEDS this. And understanding him better will help you set more effective limits and consequences. Did you know that AS can be so literal that they don't understand why they would be punished for lying if you asked if they had cleaned their room, and they answered yes because they cleaned it last week, but not today? Funny things like that probably need to get straightened out between the two of you, as well.
You say yourself that you feel you are running out of time. 6 months probably isn't enough, but I think it will send a real message to your son, and give you both some space to establish better patterns for trust and communication with each other. After that, the next steps may become clearer.
Read all you can by the adults and teens on this forum, understand how they think. Get to know your son in a way that he has not felt he could effectively share with you.
Please, don't pawn this off on someone else. A mental health hospital is NOT the answer. So many on this forum admit to having gone that route, and mostly it seems to have deepened their anger and distrust of the world. That isn't what you want.
Our kids can be amazing gifts to us and to the world. AS tends to be marked by areas of genius, and also areas of real impairment. Because AS can seem so bright, when not diagnosed, they can spend a life being told they are lazy, not trying, able to do things they really cannot. Put yourself in that position and imagine how frustrated you would be, and confused. That is where your son is at.
Invest in him. It will be hard, it will be a sacrifice, but I honestly believe it will make all the difference. You will be so glad you did.
Just a personal thing: my son had a negative preschool experience and I felt so locked in by my work and obligations that I couldn't see my way clear to getting him out of that place. I still regret it. I was fortunate that he was young and I found this fantastic nanny who helped him a lot, and that once we got to K things changed completely and he has had good school experiences since, but I do wish I had seen my way to putting him first, and figuring out all this about AS sooner. I know how I feel about that small opportunity that was lost. If I lost a bigger one, the kind you are facing ... well ... please don't. Sometimes events happen that tell you it's time to seize the moment. Perhaps the thing with the mental hospital was that event. Listen to your heart, and do what you know inside needs to be done, no matter how impossible it seems.
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Last edited by DW_a_mom on Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:18 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Hands
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Aug 08, 2008
Age: 18
Posts: 53
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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It could be that he has AS and conduct disorder. My sister has a conduct disorder and she stole things that she didn't need or particularly want, she also made no attempt to hide them. I never understood her reaction when we found the stolen items, she seemed happy that my parents were yelling at her again. The only reason all this stopped is because she went to a special school, I think the reason she changed is because she was threatened with possbily going to a residential school which would have meant moving away from home obviously. She still lies, but she no longer steals so that's something I suppose.
I can't give you any advice as to what to do, sorry. I think your situation is a lot different from my sisters. |
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ouinon
chemical reaction
Joined: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 3444
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Hands wrote: | | My sister stole things that she didn't need or particularly want, she also made no attempt to hide them. |
A friend of mine who I strongly suspect of being AS went through a period of stealing totally useless things that she didn't want or need, ( at a time of isolation, in a foreign country, living alone, with intense financial and academic pressures), and was eventually caught, which frightened her very much, and just confirmed that something was very wrong and that she needed help, support, ( not arrest or imprisonment).
"Luckily" she "bumped" into someone who became her partner with whom she still lives happily years later, who "heard" her, and understood the way she lives and thinks, unlike her parents or most people she knew ( I had been one who did, but circumstances had separated us, and I was in a hypo-manic space at the time, high on alcohol and dope in an effort to cope with similar/AS difficulties, so wouldn't have been any use anyway) , and she never stole anything again.
.
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Last edited by ouinon on Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ster
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 24, 2005
Posts: 2398
Location: new england
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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he needs help NOW before it escalates...........who knows what he's done that he hasn't gotten caught for.....
it's definitely worth having him re-evaluated. therapy would also be beneficial. and as far as alternate schools go, i'd look for one which deals with varying disorders educationally classified as ED. My son goes to a therapeutic school along with kids who are severely depressed, bipolar, schizophrenic, etc....good kids who need a different environment in order to succeed.
good luck. it's a bumpy road |
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rifler39
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Mar 17, 2008
Age: 69
Posts: 198
Location: Moses Lake, WA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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Not all "alternative" schools are "bad." Yes, they have a lot of the druggies and such in attendance, but that does not have to be damaging to your son.
His problem with schooling might be boredom. I remember being bored to death in school, because of my compulsion to LEARN. I would finish the course work for the year in the first few weeks and want to move on to something else.
Had I had the discipline to push my school officials, I would probably been advanced in grade levels and pushed out of high school and into college early. Instead, I would just wander off on my own, researching and delving into subjects as they caught my interest. I remember having discussions with teachers outside of school on subjects of college level and beyond, while in my freshman year in high school. But, I never turned in the work in class and didn't bother to display my knowledge of the class work, so I was listed on paper as "slow."
This is not intended to be a "Gee, I was great" post, but to give you something to look for. My eldest son was tested while in 7th grade, and scored in the 90th percentile on a college graduate test. His teachers and the administration at school still labeled him "slow." Just having the knowledge is not enough for them, because they want all kids to conform to a mold. It makes their reports to the public look so much better.
Find subjects which interest him and task him to master them. Make sure he can demonstrate more than rote knowledge, but can use the information constructively. Give him tasks to do for you which are meaningful and productive and PRAISE him when he completes them.
Just an idea from my experience of AS in self, father, grandfather and two sons. It would have been so much easier had we known then what we know now.
Pops
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Nan
Phoenix
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Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 3158
Location: left coast
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:29 pm Post subject: Re: Desperate advice needed |
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| Beano wrote: | | My son was recently diagnosed with AS. He is 17 and we have been living under the diagnosis of ADHD since 3rd grade. I always felt that it was something else. No medicines have ever worked. He has been stealing since he was little. Pencils, batteries, remotes, lighters, cell phones, knives, pens, underwear, keys, credit cards and now a laptop. I can always tell when he has done something wrong as he gets very moody and when the item is discovered, he is euphoric. Also, he doesn't really hide the items that he takes. He is within weeks of his 18th birthday which means he will be arrested if this continues. We were going to have him hospitalized this week and when the mental hospital didn't have room, he asked if he could drive home. His language doesn't match the situation. He was even making comments on our driving skills as we were headed for the hospital. It makes no sense. I don't know where to turn. Should we do a "scared straight" type of deal at the juvenile detention center? Is this AS or a conduct disorder? He is generally a sweet kid but has no friends. He is flunking at school and this latest incident has gotten him suspended with recommendations for an alternate school (the type of school where they send the druggie kids). We are at a crossroads. If the school kicks him out where do we go? We both work so home school isn't the answer. I have an IEP meeting on Friday with some experts coming in. He has gotten into no trouble at school and has been doing fine this semester. The incident happened at his Co-op job that we did not want him placed in but the school did it anyway. What should we do? This is totally destroying the entire family. I feel like I may have a nervous breakdown. What is this stealing coming from? |
Wow, that's a tough one. Since you didn't sort this out when he was young, there've been years and years for it to become an ingrained part of his personality. He's doing it for a reason - the hard part (especially this late on) is to find out what need it's filling for him. Assuming he hasn't already been in intensive one-on-one therapy with a truly competent psychologist to try to sort this out, you could give that a stab. Since you're talking about a commitment, I assume you've already gone down that road. My gut feeling is that this is an emotional problem, not an AS problem (strictly speaking).
At some point you're going to have to let go of him and move on with your life. If you truly think you've done all you can, at that point he's on his own. You can be supportive of his positive behaviors and not reinforce (either positively or negatively) the "bad" ones, but once he's an adult there's really not a hell of a lot you can do unless he wants to have it done (legally speaking). Since he's de facto an adult at 17 anyway, there may not be a lot you can do at this point - it's in his hands. It may well be that the law of "actions have logical consequences" may be the only thing that gets his attention.
Wish I could give you more and better advice, but you need a professional here, I think. My very best wishes to you and your family....
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Novinson's Revolutionary Discovery: When comes the revolution, things will be different - not better, just different. |
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Babtor24
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Mar 29, 2007
Age: 27
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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One I would get him taken out of the co op job that he is placed in because the behavior he is doing sounds like something I would do if I was not so great behaviorlly. Except for me I would be smashing things or attacking people, I wasn't exactly nice when I was younger.
However something people have to understand is you can't just make someone with Autism, in any form, do something they don't want to do. And it sounds to me like your son does not want to do this job.
Plus the advice everyone else has given is really good and hopefully I can read through it later. |
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blueroses
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Feb 11, 2007
Age: 25
Posts: 64
Location: PA, USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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I think DW a Mom's advice was excellent and I don't have too much to add. I hope you will reconsider an in-patient approach to getting therapy for your son.
I have AS myself and also happen to be a social worker. I had a young man with AS come to my program looking for housing recently who was pretty much a shell of a person. Besides being in and out of jail twice, he was also hospitalized several times before ending up on the street. His family had taken a "tough love" approach and kicked him out. It really didn't work. It broke my heart.
Those of us with AS tend to need stability and some of us need it a great deal. I go into a sort of shock if I even have to spend the night in a bed other than my own--the whole new sensory experience is just too much to take in. A lot of change burns me out.
The young man I was talking about seemed to be suffering from something similar. It wouldn't have mattered how excellent the therapy he received was because he was too frazzled to absorb it or fully participate in it.
I hope that you can get help for your son in a way that suits his needs and is handled by professionals who have an understanding of AS. Otherwise, it will just be a waste. I know from my own experiences with being misdiagnosed and "treated" by people who were viewing me through a really inaccurate lense.
Please hang in there and keep us posted about how it goes for him and for yourself. |
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DW_a_mom
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 1251
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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Beano, I know you have a lot on your plate, and this thread has given you quite a bit of different angles to think about, but I hope you will come back and let us know what happens.
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schleppenheimer
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 01, 2006
Posts: 970
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know -- does stealing stuff sound very aspie to the rest of you? My experience is that aspies are rule-oriented.
This sounds like a description a friend of mine had about her daughter, just before she found out she was bi-polar.
I sure hope things have improved a bit with this situation -- I hate to hear about children (and parents) struggling like this. |
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DW_a_mom
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 1251
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| schleppenheimer wrote: | I don't know -- does stealing stuff sound very aspie to the rest of you? My experience is that aspies are rule-oriented.
This sounds like a description a friend of mine had about her daughter, just before she found out she was bi-polar.
I sure hope things have improved a bit with this situation -- I hate to hear about children (and parents) struggling like this. |
Rule oriented, yes, but also capable of coming up with really odd ways to express a need for attention. The other day my son hide one shoe from every paid my daughter wears. I am SO glad I figured that out the night before so that she has a pair for the morning rush. Yesterday I found a ton of stuff hidden behind the toilet (gross!). I guess no one had told my son these specific things were against the rules. And well, even if I had, when he wants to break a rule, he can be very creative (to my eyes) in stating why the rule would not apply to what he just did (these are always interesting discussions: "no, I didn't break the rule because ..." and "well, the intent of the rule, as we have discussed, is ... and it will apply because ..." and him again "no, it's different because ...."). There is no way to come up with a set of rules that covers every possible incidence and, so, to lots of Aspies the world is full of loopholes.
Although, sometimes, they just don't care. There have been posts on these forums by those who gave up on the rules because either they didn't make sense or because they saw everyone laying down the rules as hypocrits (not a difficult conclusion to reach, given all the gray areas in the world, even if we would disagree with that conclusion, I can see how some Aspie logic gets there).
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Emen
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Jul 19, 2008
Posts: 39
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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Hi there,
I don't have much more to offer you except to endorse DW a mom's excellent advice - it really does sound as if he's crying out for help and drawing attention to himself in these anti-social ways in a desperate attempt to get help with his difficulties.
Also - please, please avoid bringing him to the notice of the law and the legal system as much as you can. The consequences of trying to 'shock him' out of this behaviour by involving the juvenile justice system may be much more far-reaching and damaging than you imagine, both in terms of his future (he could become a 'marked man' as far as the police are concerned) and in terms of his relationship with you and his trust in you.
I wish you good luck and hope he gets the effective help he, and you, desperately need. |
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prometheuspann
Deinonychus
Joined: Aug 28, 2008
Age: 36
Posts: 320
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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if it was me, I'd calmly inform him that i had noticed he had been stealing and that this is not okay because it hurts other people when he does this and hurts himself over the long term. I'd repeat that several times and make sure it had stuck as a sort of
replacement for spanking. then he'd get home one day and his room would be cleaned out bare. Completely except for just enough to sleep with.
"See? It really doesn't feel so good when people take your things, now does it?"
To get them back, he'd write me a 20 page report on the ethics of stealing.
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prometheuspann
Deinonychus
Joined: Aug 28, 2008
Age: 36
Posts: 320
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Emen wrote: | Hi there,
I don't have much more to offer you except to endorse DW a mom's excellent advice - it really does sound as if he's crying out for help and drawing attention to himself in these anti-social ways in a desperate attempt to get help with his difficulties.
Also - please, please avoid bringing him to the notice of the law and the legal system as much as you can. The consequences of trying to 'shock him' out of this behaviour by involving the juvenile justice system may be much more far-reaching and damaging than you imagine, both in terms of his future (he could become a 'marked man' as far as the police are concerned) and in terms of his relationship with you and his trust in you.
I wish you good luck and hope he gets the effective help he, and you, desperately need. |
| Quote: | | Also - please, please avoid bringing him to the notice of the law and the legal system as much as you can. The consequences of trying to 'shock him' out of this behaviour by involving the juvenile justice system may be much more far- |
 
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