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Liverbird
Using my evil powers for good!
Joined: Jun 14, 2007
Posts: 1108
Location: My heart belongs to Anfield
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 Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:21 pm Post subject: Size 7 in mouth disease |
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Okay, I'm pretty good with this whole AS thing most of the time. I'm in harmony with it and I can function in semi-obliviousness most of the time.
So, yesterday there was a huge problem with a student that I have and a funding agency with his financial aid which needs to be in place in two weeks when he goes to school. The other agency was asking me to correct a form in a way that it was not possible to correct the form. So, I ask them if they've ever even filled out that form because it was obvious to me that if they had filled out that form that they never would have asked me to make this impossible correction.
Just to compound the situation the supervisor at the other agency is my ex supervisor and we never really got along very well. So, she calls me and I explain to her that I can't make that correction in the way that they are asking me too and she was all well...just come get this form and then we'll have it filled out again.
So, I come in today and my new supervisor, who is aware that I'm AS asks me what happened and says that my ex supervisor told him that I was rude and offensive. Now, I'm painfully aware that I have this wonderful ability to be rude and offensive, but I didn't really think that it applied here. I told him what I said and he told me that it could have indeed been taken as offensive. I agreed and then he said I had to make an apology which I'm also bad at. So, he helped me to write an apology letter.
What I'm feeling upset about is that I hate it when I make these little tact mistakes. I don't have a picture card for that situation and so I don't ever know how to deal with them. I certainly have no ability to fix it or to stop it.
I explained to my now supervisor that when he asks me how I'm going to resolve the situation (which apparently works on NT employees), my brain goes into defensive lock down mode. My experience is that by the time that I've figured out that a situation is so messed up that I actually get that it's messed up, it's WAY out of my control to fix it in any way, shape, or form. So, I'm feeling depressed because all the NT people around me just get this social crap and I have to work so hard at it. It just irritates me that I have to work so hard at it and it really just doesn't seem worth it to work at when that means that when something like this happens I wish I could just stand in the corner and drool. I feel so powerless in these situations because I know that I'm so easy to beat up over these things. I DON'T get it. I WON'T ever get it. It's not EVER magickally just gonna hit me over the head one day.
So, social dysfunction is SO not my strong point. Especially when I'm somehow at the middle of it and I don't know how to not be in the middle of it. Or be perceived as the problem. It doesn't help that the stress of the whole thing makes me freak out and act even weirder than I already do.
I'm hitting myself over the head because I feel like I tend to blend in pretty well, and this definitely blows me out of flying under the radar status. I hate it when I make these mistakes and I hate it when people get to point it out to me.
Any one else?
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"All those things that you taught me to fear
I've got them in my garden now
And you're not welcome here" ---Poe
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Ancalagon
Sea Gull
Joined: Dec 26, 2007
Posts: 243
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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What was supposedly so rude? Disagreeing with your old boss?
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"If you can't explain something to a six-year-old, you really don't understand it yourself." -Einstein
"Don't think outside the box - find the box" -Andy Hunt & Dave Thomas |
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Liverbird
Using my evil powers for good!
Joined: Jun 14, 2007
Posts: 1108
Location: My heart belongs to Anfield
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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Apparently what was so rude was that I informed her of her stupidity. I told her that obviously she had never filled out this particular form before or she would know that I couldn't input the information that she was asking me to input. Evidently, it's rude to point out that it's impossible to do something that it's impossible to do.
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"All those things that you taught me to fear
I've got them in my garden now
And you're not welcome here" ---Poe
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krex
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 21, 2006
Age: 45
Posts: 4995
Location: Village of the Damned
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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No solutions, but I can relate to...... logic being perceived as rude. I had a boss write a very insulting comment in a staff log saying that if I reported a machine broken "that I should have been able to fix", I would have to pay for the people who charged to come out and fix it.
I responded, that "I was never trained to diagnose or repair the machine and if I had been able to diagnose what was wrong and repair it myself, I would obviously would have done so" . It caused a lot of tension between us, but I can't let myself feel responsible for what I see as her "perception problem" . Reality was, that she attacked and tried to "shame me" and I refused to allow it. This is exactly the kind of thing that makes a simple job into a nightmare because some people seem incapable of using their logic and are ruled by emotion. The actual problem with the machine was underneath a thousand pound machine and it should have been obvious that I could not just flip it over and fix it without the training or the tools. She was just pissed about having to pay someone $100.00 to have someone come replace what was basically a screw but that was hardly my fault.
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Ancalagon
Sea Gull
Joined: Dec 26, 2007
Posts: 243
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Liverbird wrote: | | Apparently what was so rude was that I informed her of her stupidity. I told her that obviously she had never filled out this particular form before or she would know that I couldn't input the information that she was asking me to input. Evidently, it's rude to point out that it's impossible to do something that it's impossible to do. |
It's hard to tell if you were actually rude or not. You might want to make a mental note to avoid your ex-boss, if that's possible.
You should probably mostly focus on doing your job well (which I assume you do already), and getting along w/ your current boss. You might try to indicate to your current boss that you want to avoid problems in the future by asking if there's some other way he/she would have liked you to handle that sort of thing. Or ask if he/she would like a heads up if your ex-boss gets upset with you again.
I try to stay as far away from office politics as I possibly can. Even so, my motives tend to get totally misinterpreted more often than not.
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"If you can't explain something to a six-year-old, you really don't understand it yourself." -Einstein
"Don't think outside the box - find the box" -Andy Hunt & Dave Thomas |
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rifler39
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Mar 17, 2008
Age: 69
Posts: 198
Location: Moses Lake, WA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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I have been there so often. I have learned to act dense in such a situation. Ask the person to take you through the steps to do the task she is asking for. Keep asking for clarification until the other person begins to see the fallacy of what they are asking. After all, it is the super's job to teach, is it not?  
WORST CASE: the other will get so frustrated, she will call your supervisor and HE can tell her she is stupid.
Pops
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Tools are dangerous only while being controlled by a human.
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nobodyzdream
Whistling in the dark...
Joined: Apr 24, 2007
Age: 28
Posts: 1935
Location: St. Charles, MO-USA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:38 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, I've noticed people tend to not like it when you ask them questions that they cannot answer, or when you point out something that makes them wrong. I don't know why it's seen as rude, as often it is just fact. But they still don't like it.
I've also noticed it isn't so bad if they can find a scapegoat, though. If they can find someone nearby to blame it on, they'll accept it a lot easier, lol. I don't get people.
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Followthereaper90
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 30, 2008
Age: 18
Posts: 993
Location: finland
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:09 am Post subject: |
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weird 
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Liverbird
Using my evil powers for good!
Joined: Jun 14, 2007
Posts: 1108
Location: My heart belongs to Anfield
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:13 am Post subject: |
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The upside of all of this is that my current supervisor is excellent. He sat down and explained to me why they thought it was offensive. Then he asked if I knew how to fix the situation. He knows about the AS, so he said that it was okay if I really didn't know. Then he told me what he thought would be an appropriate step. I told him that I was going to have difficulty not sounding like a sarcastic bitch in an email, so he came over and helped me to write the email.
Then he asked me to think about it a little and then write him an email (he knows that I communicate much better in writing) and tell him why the situation was so awkward for me and why it upset me so much. So a little while later, I did write that email and explained to him why these situations are difficult for me. I.E. It was painfully obvious to me that they'd never done this form or they would know they can't do what they wanted me to do, I just pointed out that they were stupid. Since I felt like it was obvious, I didn't really see it as rude pointing it out to them how stupid it was. I was just honest, not rude. I also told him that it's difficult to apologise for something that you don't know what you did wrong and especially when you feel that it should really be the other person apologising to you. He agreed that I was owed an apology but also explained that I wasn't going to get it. Which is fine, I guess.
Really, he said, it's just a big game and so next time something comes up that I think might be potentially problematic, to come to him and he'll help me with it. He said that if something happens that I don't have time to come to him about, then to do the best I can, and he'll help me fix the problems, later.
I like my boss. He really tries hard. He asks me lots of questions about AS and really tries to understand why I think so much differently. He also doesn't think about problems as how can he keep his glaring inadequacies from popping up to the forefront, but how can we keep that from being the problem and still do the best job we can for our clients.
It always amazes me how an agency like Vocational Rehabilitation that spends so much of their time working with people with disabilities really can't work with people with disabilities. At least not in other agencies. It's okay for my clients to have disabilities, but not for me. Weird, huh?
_________________
"All those things that you taught me to fear
I've got them in my garden now
And you're not welcome here" ---Poe
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anbuend
Oak-Type Autie
Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 3302
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah similar situation here. I'm going to describe what's worked for me in dealing with the situations after the fact:
One thing a friend told me that's been really helpful, is that if someone is upset with me about something, I need to ask them what's wrong, instead of leaping into justifying whatever I was doing that upset them.
And then when I ask them, I can get the information on what it is exactly that I did. And often it's something that was a problem even if I didn't intend it to be a problem.
And then the thing to do is apologize, a real apology like "I'm sorry," or "I'm sorry I did this," not a conditional apology like "I'm sorry if ______" or "I'm sorry you feel ______" that makes it sound like it's their problem if they're upset by it, and also as if the biggest problem is their feelings rather than the effect I had on them in general -- sometimes the problem is hurt feelings but often the feelings are because I've done something that is problematic beyond just feelings.
Anyway, the real apology should be preferably acknowledging that I was being rude, tactless, insensitive, thoughtless, whatever, acknowledging what the consequences were for others, and not going over-far into excusing whatever it is I did (explaining is sometimes not out of place but it has to be done carefully to avoid making it all about you).
This article How to say you're sorry: A refresher course has great information on how to do a good apology, and how not to do one, with lots of examples of both good and bad apologies.
I know that doesn't solve how I did it in the first place, but it seems to be a good general description of the social skills involved in dealing with things and making amends after having screwed up.
This of course really doesn't apply in some situations, such as when someone's knowingly and falsely accusing you of doing something wrong in order to manipulate you or people around you. In which case it can be good to get the opinion of someone you trust -- not someone who'll just say "yes" to you, but also not someone who'll just say "no" to you. Someone you can trust to be honest about things.
Because there are always people out there who will perform all kinds of weird social maneuvering by attempting to say you've done something wrong when you haven't. For instance, I once politely turned down a guy's invitation to go out with him, and he ran around telling everyone I did it because of his skin color (actually I'm just not into guys, and while I didn't quite understand that yet, I also didn't feel ready for dating of any kind at that time), presumably so he didn't lose some kind of status either in his head or around other people by admitting he'd been rejected by a girl. And in other cases, I've had people walk up to me and accuse me of things that had even less to do with reality, the equivalent of if this guy had said all that when I hadn't even turned him down for any reason.
And in those cases it's different, and it's important to be wary of those things. I've seen a lot of office politics in agencies that provide me services, and I've seen people lie about each other in order to get ahead. While I've heard human service agencies have more drama than most other fields, I'm still sure that happens in a lot of companies. I've heard a lot of similar stories from a lot of different people.
But at the same time, not knowing you did something wrong doesn't necessarily excuse you if you did do something wrong. And if you unknowingly did something that does turn out to be wrong, it's a good idea to apologize for being inconsiderate or thoughtless. For instance, I once asked someone to do something that was very difficult for them, when there was someone else around to do it. Sure, I just forgot, but my just forgetting had real consequences for the people involved. And I genuinely do feel bad about having done something that had those consequences, so of course I'm sorry I did it, and not meaning to doesn't much come into the matter (nor does dwelling on it very long tend to help).
There are of course exceptions to all this, some of which I've mentioned already, but in general I think it's good to be able to figure out what to do when you screw up this way.
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makuranososhi
Purple Monkey Dishwasher
Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 2256
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting... I appear to be halfway between in that I have learned to ask instead of explain; however, unless it is something for which was my responsibility, my apologies are qualified and conditional. Thanks for the information.
M.
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From my heart and from my hand, why don't people understand my intentions...?
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krex
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 21, 2006
Age: 45
Posts: 4995
Location: Village of the Damned
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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I still struggle to apologize if I feel that I have not done anything wrong...even if the other person thinks I did something wrong. As example...I had a friend who wanted an apology because I yawned several times when we went out for coffee. She said I "yawned at her, which iplyed that I found her boring". I explained to her that I had a very bad case of broncitus at the time and was not getting enough oxygen, thus the yawn, (I was also extreamly tired at the time and had agreed to go out with her anyway.) She talked to her psychologist, who she said also agreed that I owed her an apology. I said...."Well, I'm glad you found some one you can pay to support you in your dellussions"...and stopped being her friend.
I can not apologize when I feel I am being falsly accused of something any more then I can lie in general. I think it has something to do with feeling "lost" when things are not logical...it really, really bothers me.....like agreeing with someone that 2+2=5.
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anbuend
Oak-Type Autie
Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 3302
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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The thing that I finally realized was, apologizing is saying you're sorry you did something. It isn't saying "I did this with intent to harm you". For instance, you can bump into someone by accident and say "I'm sorry" even though you didn't actually mean to bump into them.
So if I do something that accidentally affects someone badly (within reason, anyway -- if someone tells me out of nowhere that my drinking tea affects them badly because it proves I'm part of a plot to harm them, I'm not going to apologize for drinking tea) apologizing to the people it affects isn't lying. It's saying I'm sorry I did it, even if I didn't know at the time that it would cause the problem. And as soon as I realized that it was like bumping into someone unintentionally, it all made sense.
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"We may seem in the gutter from up there where you are but maybe you don't know we still see the same stars." -Donna Williams |
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Liverbird
Using my evil powers for good!
Joined: Jun 14, 2007
Posts: 1108
Location: My heart belongs to Anfield
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:35 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, that's exactly it. It's difficult to remember that when I'm in the middle of stuff with people sometimes, though. Especially with someone as stupid as my ex boss. I just always find it somewhat hilarious that the queen of tact finds it necessary to chastise me for tactless behaviour.
Fortuneately, my new supervisor realises that my ex supervisor is an idiot. I realised that the entire apology was more like a way for my department to stay on good terms with the agency that is responsible for 90% of our funding. I realise that my ex supervisor has nothing to do with whether or not we get our funding. But the other agency is good at trying to make my department believe that the immediate office is actually in charge of our funding. They aren't. We are actually funded through the State in charge of the agency. Every one likes to pretend they have more power than they do.
As long as I don't point this out to anyone, everything seems fine. Funny how ignoring the obvious and pretending it doesn't exist makes everyone feel better.
_________________
"All those things that you taught me to fear
I've got them in my garden now
And you're not welcome here" ---Poe
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rifler39
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Mar 17, 2008
Age: 69
Posts: 198
Location: Moses Lake, WA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Funny how ignoring the obvious and pretending it doesn't exist makes everyone feel better. |
Pick only those battles which can be won.
Pops
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