 
Support Wrong Planet Awareness!
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
patrick6
Phoenix
![]()
Joined: Feb 24, 2008
Posts: 1901
Location: London, U.K.
|
 Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:39 pm Post subject: Can 'scientifically-minded' individuals.... |
 |
|
Can 'scientifically-minded' individuals lead substance-filled lives?
Is it possible to believe that there is 'purpose' in life while being a 'scientifically-minded' person? Like, if you believe in the big bang, evolution, etc., is it still possible to believe that there is 'purpose' in life? I've been wondering this for a long time now, and it's been bothering me lately. I've been 'tinkering around' with astronomy for a while now, and it's hard to decide whether or not there can possibly be substance in life. It's got me quite scared to be honest with you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
DeaconBlues
They call Alabama the Crimson Tide - call me...
Joined: Apr 22, 2007
Posts: 1594
Location: Earth, mostly
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have chosen my own purpose in life - to learn as much about the universe, and how it is put together, as possible, and to pass that knowledge to all who come after. It is my impression that most "scientifically-minded individuals", as you put it, find their own reasons for existence.
This should not be frightening, but liberating. You don't have to be told why you're here - you can decide for yourself what your purpose in life is! What greater gift could be given? (Aside from a winning lottery ticket, perhaps...)
_________________
If it can't be expressed in figures, it is not science; it is opinion. - Robert A. Heinlein |
|
| Back to top |
|
Fnord
Metasyntactic Variable
Joined: May 07, 2008
Posts: 3658
Location: Pantopia
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Can 'scientifically-minded' individuals.... |
|
|
| patrick6 wrote: | | Can 'scientifically-minded' individuals lead substance-filled lives? |
This depends on your definition of 'substance'.
| patrick6 wrote: | | Is it possible to believe that there is 'purpose' in life while being a 'scientifically-minded' person? |
Absolutely. In my case, my 'scientifically-minded' reasoning has led me to choose my purposes in life. The default purpose for every one, of course, is to be used as a bad example for others.
| patrick6 wrote: | | Like, if you believe in the big bang, evolution, etc., is it still possible to believe that there is 'purpose' in life? |
Yes. Religionists are inclined to believe in determinism or 'predestination', while science-minded people are more inclined to believe in free will. Thus, people are free to choose their purpose. Of course, they must also have the ability to realize this purpose.
| patrick6 wrote: | | I've been wondering this for a long time now, and it's been bothering me lately. I've been 'tinkering around' with astronomy for a while now, and it's hard to decide whether or not there can possibly be substance in life. It's got me quite scared to be honest with you. |
You're a little vague on your concept of 'substance'. If you mean 'wealth' then professional astronomy may not be for you. If you mean 'fulfilment' then it depends on what you make of your choices. And if you mean 'spiritual enlightenment' then you'd be better off entering a monastery. As for fear...
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain." -- Frank Herbert, "Dune" - Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear
_________________
The leaders of the American automobile industry have been amazingly consistent in their management philosophy, in that they have never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Drakilor
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Sep 15, 2006
Posts: 186
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 2:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Those two subjects aren't even related to each other. Why are you trying to combine them?
_________________
"Love looks not with the eyes, but with the mind; And therefore is winged Cupid painted blind." |
|
| Back to top |
|
lau
Quinquaginta Novem! Male Gee-knee-us + silly bits.
Joined: Jun 18, 2006
Age: 59
Posts: 7448
Location: Somerset UK
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I agree with DeaconBlues. There is no "purpose", in the limited sense you seem to ask for. It is up to you to make your choice. I choose thought.
_________________
Phases of a project: (1) Exultation. (2) Disenchantment. (3) Confusion. (4) Search for the Guilty. (5) Punishment for the Innocent. (6) Distinction for the Uninvolved. |
|
| Back to top |
|
carturo222
Polymath wannabe
Joined: Aug 04, 2008
Age: 25
Posts: 1137
Location: Colombia
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
No, life (as in The Life) has no purpose of itself. But there's no reason why it should.
Your life, on the other hand, is yours to shape and follow whatever purpose you set to it. It's your decision. Your life. Yours only to decide.
Most religious people are unwilling to face the overwhelming responsibility of being accountable only to themselves for every tiny decision they make. You must choose your own purpose, and be careful to make decisions you can live with. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Fnord
Metasyntactic Variable
Joined: May 07, 2008
Posts: 3658
Location: Pantopia
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| carturo222 wrote: | | Most religious people are unwilling to face the overwhelming responsibility of being accountable only to themselves for every tiny decision they make. You must choose your own purpose, and be careful to make decisions you can live with. |
Thus, the belief in Predestination, which is the abdication of personal responsibility, and accounability for one's own actions; as in, "It was God's will for me to smite thee."
_________________
The leaders of the American automobile industry have been amazingly consistent in their management philosophy, in that they have never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity. |
|
| Back to top |
|
ValMikeSmith
Velociraptor
Joined: May 19, 2008
Posts: 488
Location: Stranger in a strange land
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Scientists that assume proof of the futility of life go insane.
For example I once heard a scientist freaking out because he thought that everything
is chemicals - THEREFORE - everything is pointless. I immediately said, "Hey you're
right, I never realized it's true that everything is chemicals, BUT that doesn't make
everything pointless. What do you think pointful stuff should be made of?"
I have abilities and the point of my life is to use them.
People without any abilities can still experience the wonders of living on this planet.
So the point is to be what you are and do what you can do while you are here.
All you do will fade away and you'll be forgotten but it's not pointless if you enjoyed it.
If you believe in God then you also believe you will leave this planet
and live happily ever after in paradise.
And if there's no God, then you won't have any time to find out and be sad about it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Fnord
Metasyntactic Variable
Joined: May 07, 2008
Posts: 3658
Location: Pantopia
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ValMikeSmith wrote: | Scientists that assume proof of the futility of life go insane.
For example I once heard a scientist freaking out because he thought that everything
is chemicals - THEREFORE - everything is pointless... |
But everything is pointless! For it is written:
| King Solomon, son of King David, in Jerusalem wrote: | | "Meaningless! Meaningless!" says the Teacher. "Utterly meaningless! Everything is meaningless. What does man gain from all his labor at which he toils under the sun? Generations come and generations go, but the Earth remains forever. The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. The wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course. All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again. All things are wearisome, more than one can say. The eye never has enough of seeing, nor the ear its fill of hearing. What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun. Is there anything of which one can say, "Look! This is something new"? It was here already, long ago; it was here before our time. There is no remembrance of men of old, and even those who are yet to come will not be remembered by those who follow." |
Now, doesn't that make sense to you?
_________________
The leaders of the American automobile industry have been amazingly consistent in their management philosophy, in that they have never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity. |
|
| Back to top |
|
ValMikeSmith
Velociraptor
Joined: May 19, 2008
Posts: 488
Location: Stranger in a strange land
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Now, doesn't that make sense to you? |
Yes. Most of Ecclesiastes is about thinking everything is meaningless.
At the end of the-whole-thing he says it tires the mind,
and God will judge the meaningfulness of everything. |
|
| Back to top |
|
carturo222
Polymath wannabe
Joined: Aug 04, 2008
Age: 25
Posts: 1137
Location: Colombia
|
|
| Back to top |
|
NeantHumain
Phoenix
![]()
Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 3717
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: Can 'scientifically-minded' individuals.... |
|
|
| Fnord wrote: | | Yes. Religionists are inclined to believe in determinism or 'predestination', while science-minded people are more inclined to believe in free will. Thus, people are free to choose their purpose. Of course, they must also have the ability to realize this purpose. |
I think you're mistaken about this. Free will is more typical of religionists, who take it to be the choice to sin or to follow God's will, while some form of determinism is more common among atheists, who see it as a way of describing actions as physically inevitable in the same way that a cue ball colliding with a billiard ball inevitably leads to a physical reaction. |
|
| Back to top |
|
carturo222
Polymath wannabe
Joined: Aug 04, 2008
Age: 25
Posts: 1137
Location: Colombia
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| In fact, both Islam and Calvinism are radical examples of determinism, while secular humanism stresses personal responsibility. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Fnord
Metasyntactic Variable
Joined: May 07, 2008
Posts: 3658
Location: Pantopia
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| carturo222 wrote: | | In fact, both Islam and Calvinism are radical examples of determinism, while secular humanism stresses personal responsibility. |
Both of the religious traditions you mentioned have some form of predeterminist philosophy, in which a divine being has scripted out every thought and action of every being in the universe, thus damning a large portion of beings before they are even born because "God wanted it that way." So, if a Islamist or Calvinist kills someone, their conscience is clear because the death was "part of God's plan."
Secular Humanism actually stresses ethical conduct, of which personal responsibility is only one factor. The 'Six Pillars of Character' of the 'Josephson Institute of Ethics' are:- Trustworthiness (Honesty, Integrity, Loyalty, and Reliability).
- Respect (Civility, Courtesy and Decency; Dignity and Autonomy; and Tolerance and Acceptance).
- Responsibility (Accountability, Pursuit of Excellence, and Self-Restraint).
- Fairness (Process, Impartiality, and Equity).
- Caring.
- Citizenship.
Now, why can't Christian churches teach these things?
_________________
The leaders of the American automobile industry have been amazingly consistent in their management philosophy, in that they have never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity. |
|
| Back to top |
|
ValMikeSmith
Velociraptor
Joined: May 19, 2008
Posts: 488
Location: Stranger in a strange land
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Now, why can't Christian churches teach these things? |
Because they don't read their bibles. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
