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Perambulator
Snowy Owl
Joined: Feb 10, 2008
Age: 24
Posts: 140
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 Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:32 am Post subject: This recession could be a boon for Aspies |
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I think the Fates work in mysterious ways, what wonders the universe will unravel next only time will tell. If we look over the past century more has changed recently than ever before. Communism has come and gone, a proven failure. Capitalism has scaled dizzy heights and is now dramatically unravelling from excess. Some time soon we will probably find a more happy medium and I guess the worst thing to be said about that is it'll be more dull, because, yes, it'll be safer and cosier.
I'm not loyal to any particular political party nor ideology. There is good and bad in everyone and everything. Yet as time moves on I think gradually things keep on getting better, it's just because things work in mysterious ways it can not always seem that way. Most people today agree that the past of housing thousands of people in insane asylums is incredibly cruel. It's ironic that we have capitalists and their respective conservative political representatives to thank for that more than we do socialists and social democrats. It was Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan who led the world into deinstitutionalisation and care in the community.
There are various reasons this recession could ultimately be a good thing for us Aspies. One of them is that the shortage of oil is leading to a more communal society, and as we've had such an overwhelmingly individualistic society lately there's been little time to notice people who are different and need support like Autistics. Of course there are social workers, charities and so on but the general public on the ground, day by day do not on the whole face the reality of what our lives are like. On the whole we are unemployed, isolated and people barely know who we are. That is because so many employed people - through I guess no fault of their own since our culture has encouraged it - live their lives almost completely in their car, their office and then their home. Most of us have hardly lived in a community for the past few years.
More investment and use of public transport may change that. People might start noticing the more isolated membes of society and at some point it's likely a chain of events will take place that earn us more rights and respect. It's also the case that a society that is booming ecomonically as it has been in the past but no longer is a society in which selfishness natually begins to grow in the weaker characters. As hardship grows for all, kindness and tolerance become ever so more important.
The recession will also lead to slower lifestyles and healthier ones. For example, when the economy was booming McDonald's was at its height. Now it is struggling and no doubt the further along the bust bites, its fortunes will further diminish. Of course it's not the only junk food outlet and many others will suffer too. As they should -- who needs a heart attack in a box? For too long people have indulged in mindless sensory pleasure. We've all done it. It's like a hypnotic disease. Deep down I think we all can't wait 'til the day we have time and restore a more traditional meal in the home.
Further changes will be that unnecessary luxuries and sometimes harmful vices will be more difficult to fund and be given the cold shoulder as we all focus on buying our food, paying our rent and our bills which are all rising. People able to afford prostitution, gambling, alcoholism, drug addiction, pornography will reduce drastically. The end of the era of cheap flights as fuel prices rise will bring hope to sexual slaves in countries like Vietnam and Indonesia where opportunistic sex fiends have been flying out to buy cheap sex, often with children who most people would define as too young to be having sex.
Learning the lessons will involve improving education so that the best minds get the best jobs, whether or not that mind belongs to a person who lives in a poor community or has a disability. In turn this will improve capitalism and help rid it of many of its smooth-talking, greasy, socially charming yet utterly destructive hangers on.
That is why there is hope for us. |
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Loborojo
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 20, 2008
Age: 49
Posts: 931
Location: wherever I lay my head (now in Ecuador)
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Ishmael
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 08, 2008
Posts: 1170
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:07 am Post subject: |
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Man is but a beast... for so long as said beast is sated it lies content; greedily consuming and producing without regard. As those with plenty find themselves lost to their former lives, they will savagely and willfully take from others to recieve their believed due.
Survival is brutal - not utopian. Survival with sentience is an ideal; ranges and food given way to power and resources. Brutal still.
This recession could serve as a boon for those asperger; removed from a self destructive society - as opposed to your argument further attention be paid to us. Were it that such would occur, we should undoubtedly be hated and hunted.
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Oh, well, fancy that! Isn't that neat, eh? |
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2ukenkerl
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 4860
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:51 am Post subject: |
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It is interesting that you oversimplify things, but it is based on a premise that you complicate!
TRUE communism can't work because it is based on altruism. The idea that the likes of the USSR, cuba, etc... were/are communistic is pretty stupid. They were/are oligarchies and/or dictatorships. All they have in common is that they "work" together, the "country owns the businesses, and they are driven by fear/misinformation. In short, they came into existance because they were once capatalist in a way and that meant rich/free and poor/slaves. The people were promised they could be equal/free and ended up being slaves that merely survived. Part of the reason is because people wanted to live like the rich. But SOMEONE must work. THIS is why the USSR made such low quality stuff, and it was so rare.
Likewise, some people in Capitalistic societies want to be free with NO work. Some, like Bill Gates, luck out, and others fail. SOME want to take short cuts by STEALING. Where communism works on the assumption that people are altruistic, capitalism works on the idea that they can be enticed by getting paid for their services. The idea is that everyone has the chance to become more free.
And people don't understand how the securities work. I can't understand why. It is really pretty simple. The poor ****THINK**** they don't care which way it goes, but that is STUPID! They REALLY want it to stay SOMEWHAT near the yearly high, and tend to be stable, or maybe go higher. SOME of the rich want it to tend to go higher. If it tends LOWER, the rich DO lose money, but businesses can be bought, shut down, people can be put out of work, and investments will COLLAPSE!!!!! Eventually, most of society could be wiped out. Eventually, the currency(basically backed by such things) can COLLAPSE!!!!!! So EVEN if you have a trillion dollars, or a trillion pounds, in your mattress, you can be POOR! THAT is why the US just increased the national debt by almost 10%!!!!!!! They want to avoid such an extreme. |
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ToughDiamond
Velociraptor
Joined: Sep 16, 2008
Age: 55
Posts: 459
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:00 am Post subject: |
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I don't want to dampen your spirits, but I've lived through a recession before and didn't notice any good side at all. The poor suffered even more poverty which embittered them and caused them to snatch from each other. It's called a depression for a good reason - that's what it does to most folks. Social security benefits get cut back while more people have to chase after them. People are ruined, dreams broken. The winners are the antisocial Scrooges who concentrate obsessively on buying cheap and selling dear - legalised theft.
I don't say that a drop in living standards always leads to more hate - I believe WWII saw an improvement in social cohesion, but that was down to there being a potent common purpose (without a genuine common purpose, no group can thrive socially). Scarce commodities were rationed, and though there was some cheating, the distribution was radically fair compared to the usual competitive picture. Capitalism itself was in some ways suspended.
Engels reckoned that there was once a time when it was all a community could do just to keep itself fed. Without surplus value, exploitation was impossible, because if you exploit somebody in those circumstances, they just die! The common purpose was to stop the group starving to death, which demanded a powerful kind of co-operativity.
So I agree that returning to a more Spartan existence could improve human bonding wonderfully, but I don't think we'll see much of that under divisive capitalism, except in small pockets where everybody sees they're in the same boat and MUST co-operate or go to the wall.
I understand the lack of hope for communism, which so far has always been betrayed by its leaders, and turned into corrupt state capitalism or worse. Socialism needs a new fusion with safeguards built in so that next time the leaders can't screw it up. Leaders should be treated more like criminals from the start - potential public enemies who must be watched very carefully, and chastised often till they realise there's no point in trying to pull a fast one. Or use a leaderless method where all citizens participate fully in their own governance. I don't have any guaranteed solution, but I refuse to accept that capitalism is the only answer. |
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tomboy4good
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 15, 2008
Posts: 628
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:49 am Post subject: |
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I think the opposite is true. The tougher things get, the tougher it is to be different! At least that's been my observation over the 46 years I have been around. Just look at pre-WWII Germany. Things were economically depressed & Hitler picked on anyone he could use as a scapegoat for how bad things were. Most of us know how that turned out, & it wasn't just the Jewish people who suffered (though they were the main subjects of Hitler's finger pointing). He also singled out homosexuals, social deviants, & other people who didn't conform to his ideals. I think we need to be on guard to prevent history from repeating itself.
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You can't change your genes, but you can learn to wear them better!
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LostInSpace
Queen of the Gargoyles
Joined: Apr 17, 2007
Age: 24
Posts: 2127
Location: New York
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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I doubt a recession will benefit Aspies, either now or later. Recession= fewer jobs. Aspies might have an especially tough time finding jobs because they may not make a good impression during the job interview. So I would think that a recession might make it doubly hard for an Aspie to find work. In a good economy, if an employer is desperate to hire someone because of business growth, or is hiring many people, they are probably more forgiving if someone seems slightly odd.
And I don't see us developing a communal society just because of a recession. What about the recession in the 70s, or the Great Depression? I don't think we're going to learn anything from it, and if anything, I think it will promote an environment of "every man for himself." I also haven't seen any signs of the people in charge realizing that we need to support education and social services. Especially not if we end up with another Republican.
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"We are all more human than anything else."
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NeantHumain
Phoenix
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Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 3717
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting post, and I think it contains many interesting hopes, so I hope you don't mind my playing devil's advocate here:
- If McDonald's and other fast-food chains are losing revenue, it is probably proportionally less than what the quick-service and especially sit-down restaurants are losing.
- For many people, donating to charitable causes and volunteering their time are luxuries that they may not be able to afford in an economic downturn, which could actually result in less attention for people in need.
- Many people fall prey to addictions and other noxious vices during times of personal trouble, and a recession can cause that for many.
Will aspies see a collective advantage? I doubt it. |
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Berk
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Sep 17, 2008
Posts: 52
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm, for those of us who are already marginalised by society, frankly things can only get worse. People are going to be squeezed by the hard times so they are going to be in even less of a mood to 'empathise' with those who don't fit with their ideals, and those who are trying to get the cash out your pocket are going to be even more determined and uncomprimising as their money lust will become more competative. Also, imagine how hard it is going to be for someone with AS looking for a job in a climate where there is going to be a sharp increase in competition for a shrinking amount of jobs. As if it was'nt hard enough before!
I admire your optimism but IMO nothing will change within this sick, superficial society in the long run. These economic collapses are telegraphed and manipulated, just as the rises are. Once everyone has been through a tough patch where they have to get real and the debts start to be recovered things will once again start to 'improve'. A good deal of people will probably say, "I'll never let things get into that state again". Give it time though and soon enough people will go back to being stupid and materialistic, buying things they don't need with money they don't have, people don't worry about the consequences of their greed when things are going well. This is how the 'debt trap' works, people's complacency is exploited to a point where it can simply no longer be maintained and 'pop' the bubble bursts. The property boom is a prime example, especially here in the UK - folk were so dangerously obsessed by it and so driven by greed (buying for development/rental - pushing up prices and causing a shortage) they did'nt forsee an end to the boom. It has left a lot of people with nothing (some deserve that of course).
As I've posted in other threads, these recessions are the unltimate manifestation of extreme blind greed and there will be money to be made even in times like these because debt means big profits for the super rich - the banking giants who create the debts. In fact the same is true of War. If you look beyond the sanitized version of history we are fed (those who don't want you to look beyond this version OWN the media) the truth is far worse reading. WWII is alot more complicated than 'Hitler hated Jews and wanted to kill everyone'. The real reasons behind the rise of the Nazis and outbreak of the war are mind boggling as are the mechanics of fractional reserve banking, which create the boom/bust cycles and see greedy vultures gamble other people's money to amass disgusting profits.
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The media is the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power, because they control the minds of the masses - Malcom X |
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2ukenkerl
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 4860
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Berk wrote: | | As I've posted in other threads, these recessions are the unltimate manifestation of extreme blind greed and there will be money to be made even in times like these because debt means big profits for the super rich - the banking giants who create the debts. In fact the same is true of War. If you look beyond the sanitized version of history we are fed (those who don't want you to look beyond this version OWN the media) the truth is far worse reading. WWII is alot more complicated than 'Hitler hated Jews and wanted to kill everyone'. The real reasons behind the rise of the Nazis and outbreak of the war are mind boggling as are the mechanics of fractional reserve banking, which create the boom/bust cycles and see greedy vultures gamble other people's money to amass disgusting profits. |
One reason for the NAZIs, a ****BIG**** reason, and THE reason for the NAZI party even existing is a poor economy. Economies get worse during depressions. |
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Berk
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Sep 17, 2008
Posts: 52
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| 2ukenkerl wrote: | | Berk wrote: | | As I've posted in other threads, these recessions are the unltimate manifestation of extreme blind greed and there will be money to be made even in times like these because debt means big profits for the super rich - the banking giants who create the debts. In fact the same is true of War. If you look beyond the sanitized version of history we are fed (those who don't want you to look beyond this version OWN the media) the truth is far worse reading. WWII is alot more complicated than 'Hitler hated Jews and wanted to kill everyone'. The real reasons behind the rise of the Nazis and outbreak of the war are mind boggling as are the mechanics of fractional reserve banking, which create the boom/bust cycles and see greedy vultures gamble other people's money to amass disgusting profits. |
One reason for the NAZIs, a ****BIG**** reason, and THE reason for the NAZI party even existing is a poor economy. Economies get worse during depressions. |
Correct, this is true for the existance of many horrible regimes and in many cases there has also been external meddling like there was in Germany.
After all, where did the Nazi's money come from?
The Whole situation in Germany after the first world war was used as a sort of playground for investors and bankers. Germany was largely rebuilt with American money (through the Federal Reserve) while the American people toiled! The Nazis were able to rise to prominence partly due to investment from American based (including Jewish) bankers, the party was used as a control tool against a weak German government, to keep them in line. Part of the reason Hitler was such an anti-semite and held credibility amoung the German people was because the Jews (along with many others) profited and gained power from Germany's collapse after WWI, as they had done in the past accross the world from national debts. Of course Hitler was a hypocritical extremeist (as they all are I suppose;)) as the Nazi party went on to embody much of what he claimed to hate in the Jewish people - greed, arrogance, nepotism etc.
_________________
The media is the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power, because they control the minds of the masses - Malcom X
Last edited by Berk on Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kilroy
Establishment knows whats best
Joined: Apr 25, 2007
Posts: 10390
Location: Driving the Last Spike
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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if "aspies" ruled the world
I am going to start a revolution
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Hail Saltandor
supporter for the cure |
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Topaz
Hummingbird
Joined: Jul 28, 2008
Posts: 22
Location: The Blue Mountains, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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Recessions tend to lead to increased unemployment as reduced consumer confidence leads to less consumer spending and then businesses cutting workforces.
Recessions also tend to correlate to reductions in governments' welfare spending and reduced funding for those programs regarded as fringe (such as social skills training). |
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Tahitiii
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 02, 2008
Age: 52
Posts: 741
Location: NJ, USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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What recession? We're looking at total global economic collapse. The big one.
I had a similarly optimistic outlook once. It seems like a lifetime ago.
Then the supreme court went crazy and put a criminal/lunatic in the White House who was never legally elected. Since then, he has murdered 100,000 people in broad daylight, shredded the constitution, openly flaunted his disregard for all of our laws, fabricated excuses for illegal, unjustifiable wars, censored the major media, made us enemies of just about everyone in the world, all but declared marshal law, and some members of congress have said out loud that they are afraid to impeach him because he's too corrupt and dangerous, and that he would retaliate by bombing Iran and cancel the election.
What we have to look forward to in the near future includes food riots, police brutality and various forms of oppression. Oh, and did you notice all those shiny new Halliburton concentration camps? Guess who's going first this time around?
Sleep well, my prince,
_________________
`
Our own government murdered 3,000 people on 9-11. I take it personally.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4429289437231286745
And this mess is so big & so deep & so tall, we cannot pick it up, there is no way at all! |
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2ukenkerl
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 4860
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Tahitiii wrote: | What recession? We're looking at total global economic collapse. The big one.
I had a similarly optimistic outlook once. It seems like a lifetime ago.
Then the supreme court went crazy and put a criminal/lunatic in the White House who was never legally elected. Since then, he has murdered 100,000 people in broad daylight, shredded the constitution, openly flaunted his disregard for all of our laws, fabricated excuses for illegal, unjustifiable wars, censored the major media, made us enemies of just about everyone in the world, all but declared marshal law, and some members of congress have said out loud that they are afraid to impeach him because he's too corrupt and dangerous, and that he would retaliate by bombing Iran and cancel the election.
What we have to look forward to in the near future includes food riots, police brutality and various forms of oppression. Oh, and did you notice all those shiny new Halliburton concentration camps? Guess who's going first this time around?
Sleep well, my prince, |
They DID impeach him! He DID basically cancel the election(hanging chads and all), and he rescinded glass steagall which got us into this garbage! And NOW they pay him each year for his "office", "library", etc.... and his wife is STILL causing trouble! |
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