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Stimshieme
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Nov 16, 2007
Posts: 176
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 Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:36 pm Post subject: Why arethe Israelis allowed to get away with such injustice? |
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This is very disturbing...
Link: FOOTAGE OF ISRAELIS ATTACKING PALESTINIANS
They seem to shoot Palestinians this report says. But the thing that disturbs me is the lack of justice involved in aiding the Middle East peace process.
The Israelis claim that the Bible says it is "their" land. But that is total nonsense. You can't base that on a 2000 year old book. Does that give them the right to kill Palestinians? Why are such religious fanatics allowed to get away with murder?
Clearly if the Israelis are always invading and stealing Palestinian land and building NEW settlements why does this let them get away with murder?
I mean aren't the Israelis hypocrites? After World War 2 did they not learn anything from the murders of Hitler or the pogroms of Russia? It seems very disturbing that they are using the God excuse to get their own ways. It's like they are insulting the memory of their people.
_________________
Free Palestinians. They are the new Jews of the 1930s.
"Idiots are fun. It's no wonder every village wants one." - House.
"They wish to cure us...and I say we are the cure" - Magneto |
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PilotPirx
Deinonychus
Joined: May 09, 2008
Age: 38
Posts: 300
Location: Amsterdam, NL
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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I agree, that the situations of Palestinians is bad and that Israel should treat them different and protect them against such attacks.
But there are a few wrong points in your statement.
The Jews actually bought a large part of the area that's today Israel from Arabs, they where not stealing it. Other parts where occupied after being attacked by neighbor countries.
The Palestinians didn't behave any better. Actually they started the violence.
By far not all Israelis are religious fanatics and base their claims on those old scriptures. They're simply born in this country and defend their lives against people attacking them.
After that many years of more or les permanent war it doesn't make much sense to ask who started that war or who is doing wrong. People live there, they have to handle that situation.
After all: The Jews managed to built a country and stable society against all odds.
The Palestinians would have done far better, if at any point in time they would have started to built schools instead of bombs.
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Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing,
Doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before (E.A.Poe)
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lelia
Pika
Joined: Apr 12, 2007
Age: 56
Posts: 1497
Location: Vancouver not BC, Washington not DC
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Israel gave back Gaza, and now missiles from Gaza land randomly in Israel every day. |
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Mudboy
Velociraptor
Joined: May 20, 2007
Posts: 412
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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Stimshieme,
Go live there for a while and get to know the people. You would learn what really goes on, and whose fault it is that it continues.
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When I lose an obsession, I feel lost until I find another. |
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SeaBright
Chargé d'affaires Attaché
Joined: Aug 16, 2006
Posts: 1398
Location: Halfway back
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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Ouch...
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"I'm sorry Katya, my dear, but where we come from, your what's known as a pet; a not quite human novelty. It's why we brought you.... It's nothing to be ashamed of, my dear, but here you are and here you'll sit." |
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ValMikeSmith
Velociraptor
Joined: May 19, 2008
Posts: 488
Location: Stranger in a strange land
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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I'm no history expert this is just my opinion.
Israel actually seems to show incredible restraint and mercy.
Imagine if native americans started launching missiles at the United States
to take it back... I'd think half the people would talk about blasting away their
reserved land. I don't know anything about the situation with the Australian aborigines
(Except vaguely from the lyrics of the 1980's band Midnight Oil).
But I'm very surprised that Canada returned it's northern part to the "eskimoes"
especially because of the huge ratio of actual land area to actual persons,
so much that I'd think that none of them would even walk the perimeter of
their own lot, if it were actually divided that way. I'm not aware of any violence there;
it seemed like maybe they just had to say "PLEASE?". |
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computerlove
emos and goths, please die.
Joined: Jul 11, 2006
Posts: 3531
Location: Male, Mexico, Graphic Design
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.wbumpus.com/?q=node/95
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One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. |
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ASPowerations
Emu Egg
Joined: Dec 09, 2006
Age: 20
Posts: 8
Location: Manhattan, NY
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:33 pm Post subject: A moderate Jew's perspective |
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First, I shall discuss the inaccuracies in stimshieme's description of the situation.
"The Israelis claim that the Bible says it is "their" land. But that is total nonsense. You can't base that on a 2000 year old book."
You're right that it is total nonsense. But most Israelis don't reference the Bible in their justification of Israel's existence. The UN resolution of 1947 and the peace treaties signed by both sides after Israel's war of independence are the justifications for the existence of Israel in the pre-1967 borders. The presence of the settlements in the West Bank is quite controversial, and there is a movement to move the Israeli civillians back across the green line, keeping only a military presence as a police force against radical Palestinians making and storing bombs.
"Does that give them the right to kill Palestinians? Why are such religious fanatics allowed to get away with murder?"
No, it does not. But you must understand that the atrocities in this video are the exception, not the rule, and that the Israeli government does take action to prevent these events.
In my opinion, there are several things Israel needs to do in the name of justice.
1) Remove all illegal settlements east of the green line (not all settlements are illegal.) Maintain a military presence to prevent missiles from being stored or launched into Israel.
2) Provide monetary compensation for Palestinian families in return for their forfeit of a right to return.
3) Lighten the terms of the sentences of Palestinian prisoners.
4) Open up many more checkpoints along the counter-terrorism barrier, allowing better traffic flow. Additionally, they should issue many more permits to Palestinains to cross the green line.
5) Set up an affirmative action program inside Israel to combat the de-facto discrimination against non-Jews.
All the Palestinians need to do is one thing:
1) Don't attempt to kill Israelis. This applies to those on either side of the green line. This applies to Israeli soldiers who aren't attacking them.
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The geeks shall rise!! |
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Stimshieme
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Nov 16, 2007
Posts: 176
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Mudboy wrote: | Stimshieme,
Go live there for a while and get to know the people. You would learn what really goes on, and whose fault it is that it continues. |
I have. I worked in Gaza for the Red Cross for a brief time. It was horrendous. I feel sorry for the Palestinian children. Those air strikes are horrible.
_________________
Free Palestinians. They are the new Jews of the 1930s.
"Idiots are fun. It's no wonder every village wants one." - House.
"They wish to cure us...and I say we are the cure" - Magneto |
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Stimshieme
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Nov 16, 2007
Posts: 176
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| lelia wrote: | | Israel gave back Gaza, and now missiles from Gaza land randomly in Israel every day. |
They didn't "give back Gaza". They never owned it. What are gloriously stupid comment. The army of Israel held the territory and banned any checkpoints for the Palestinians to cross. I should know. I worked there trying to help the mothers of starving babies.
I want to the whole world to know this. This is no different to the what the Israelis experienced in the 1930's Germany: being outscasts.
_________________
Free Palestinians. They are the new Jews of the 1930s.
"Idiots are fun. It's no wonder every village wants one." - House.
"They wish to cure us...and I say we are the cure" - Magneto |
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Stimshieme
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Nov 16, 2007
Posts: 176
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| PilotPirx wrote: | I agree, that the situations of Palestinians is bad and that Israel should treat them different and protect them against such attacks.
But there are a few wrong points in your statement.
The Jews actually bought a large part of the area that's today Israel from Arabs, they where not stealing it. Other parts where occupied after being attacked by neighbor countries.
The Palestinians didn't behave any better. Actually they started the violence.
By far not all Israelis are religious fanatics and base their claims on those old scriptures. They're simply born in this country and defend their lives against people attacking them.
After that many years of more or les permanent war it doesn't make much sense to ask who started that war or who is doing wrong. People live there, they have to handle that situation.
After all: The Jews managed to built a country and stable society against all odds.
The Palestinians would have done far better, if at any point in time they would have started to built schools instead of bombs. |
what is your basis on that? There are so many things wrong with your statement. The Palestinians did not start it. They felt they were being overtaken by invaders.
_________________
Free Palestinians. They are the new Jews of the 1930s.
"Idiots are fun. It's no wonder every village wants one." - House.
"They wish to cure us...and I say we are the cure" - Magneto |
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AspE
Toucan
Joined: Jan 01, 2008
Posts: 250
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Stimshieme wrote: | | lelia wrote: | | Israel gave back Gaza, and now missiles from Gaza land randomly in Israel every day. |
They didn't "give back Gaza". They never owned it. What are gloriously stupid comment. The army of Israel held the territory and banned any checkpoints for the Palestinians to cross. I should know. I worked there trying to help the mothers of starving babies.
I want to the whole world to know this. This is no different to the what the Israelis experienced in the 1930's Germany: being outscasts. |
The Arab leaders acted like Nazis in believing that only Arabs could have any political power in the region. The surrounding Arab nations ganged up on the nascent state of Israel, and instead of succumbing to more genocide, the Jews fought back. They seized lands as a defensive measure, the spoils of war. They didn't have to give back anything.
If the Palestinians want peace, maybe they should end the intifada, how's that working out for them? Palestinian leaders don't care one bit about their people, in fact, their suffering lets them appear the martyr in what amounts to an ethnic cleansing effort on their part. |
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pbcoll
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 15, 2007
Posts: 1799
Location: England
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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I'm no fan of Israel - but since the Palestinians voted for Hamas, I find myself rooting for Israel. Not because the Israelis are all saints, but because, if the tables were turned and Hamas was as powerful as the IDF, would there be any Jews left alive in the place?
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I neither take revenge, nor beg for favours. (Rabindranath Tagore)
I am the steppenwolf that never learned to dance. (Sedaka) |
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pheonixiis
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 02, 2007
Age: 31
Posts: 682
Location: sifting through the ashes
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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And there it is.
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Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself.
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)
-Walt Whitman |
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Berk
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Sep 17, 2008
Posts: 52
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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Pfft. It's a sad situation and one that is never going to go away. The only way I can see it ending is when someone decides to unleash the nukes I'm afriad. Israel was never really going to work in the long run, a blind man could see that, but it was one of the hidden agendas behind the second World War. Give The Jewish people their promised land and then defend it, at any cost. It was decided a looong time ago by the major financial backers of Britain and America.
America's (and unfortunately the UK's) wreckless and costly foreign policy of reccent years has basically been in an effort to protect this state's existance from their enemies - occupy Arab land and set up bases there to defend Israel. The US also plough in billons of US tax payer's money just to keep it afloat. The front page up above says it all, Britain and America are the only reason Israel was created and continues to exist.
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The media is the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power, because they control the minds of the masses - Malcom X |
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