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LePetitPrince
Feminist activist O_o
Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Age: 26
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Location: Beirut , Lebanon
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MR
Deinonychus
Joined: Jun 25, 2008
Age: 39
Posts: 392
Location: USA
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 Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:43 am Post subject: |
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I don't have time to sit though a 57 minute video to see if I agree with what the video itself says, or not, or only partly. But the label for the video is just silly. Way too over the top to be true. In fact, that's not even possible, because, even if it started that way, if it's a successful fraud, then you got the people who are deceived, and the idea is out there and perpetuated without the fraud. Sometimes people are just wrong but well meaning.
I think ADHD could use a good dose of rethinking from the psychiatric establishment. But the "100% fraud" thing is silly hype.
Last edited by MR on Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Greyhound
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 10, 2008
Posts: 507
Location: Birmingham, UK
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:20 am Post subject: |
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To many people who have ADHD, that's probably as stupid and hurtful as saying 'autism is 100% psychiatric* fraud' to a person with autism.
*Or neurological or whatever.
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I don't have Aspergers, I'm just socially inept
Diagnosed: Tourette syndrome
Suspected: auditory processing disorder, synaesthesia
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anna-banana
and yet it moves!
Joined: Aug 31, 2008
Age: 25
Posts: 1728
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:36 am Post subject: |
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I didn't watch it but it's from 1998 so I guess it's worthless out-of-date information anyway.
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2ukenkerl
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 4860
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| anna-banana wrote: | | I didn't watch it but it's from 1998 so I guess it's worthless out-of-date information anyway. |
If you are discussing it, based on its content, I guess the info ISN'T dated! I mean you are talking about it NOW, and it says it isn't worth talking about.
So what was it about? It was about having tangible PROOF that ADHD was a real disease! The salient information was basically:
1. Why is a person with 5 matches normal, and suddenly diseased at 6? They got applause for that.
2. Ritalin is ADDICTIVE!
3. The makers of Ritalin are big LOBBYISTS
4. People are QUICK to diagnose. They said it was 5 MILLION, and showed a chart showing a STEEP climb over several years.
5. They CLAIM ADHD brains averaged 10% smaller, but glossed over the fact that it was meaningless for TWO reasons! 1. Brains varied in size ANYWAY! 2. They were on ritalin for years, so such claims are distorted.
6. They ADMIT there is no proof, etc...
Basically, the point is to NOT diagnose so quickly, and ralize that NORMAL has more variants. BTW they said ritalin had about 3000 recorded complications and, I believe, almost 600 were MAJOR with like 180 of them being DEATHS! |
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Callista
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 04, 2006
Age: 25
Posts: 1663
Location: Central USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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Tylenol causes 450 deaths each year--not counting overdose.
The arbitrary "normal at 5, ADHD at 6" cutoff is the same way every other psychiatric condition is diagnosed.
Ritalin has to be snorted or injected for a "high". It is not addictive in pill form.
Like autism, ADHD is a "new" diagnosis whose true rates are not yet known.
Every drug company has lobbyists. Ritalin is not unusual in that respect.
Any increase in anything can be shown to be "steep" (or insignificant) if the chart is constructed in different ways.
In 1998, there might not have been physical evidence; but long before then, children with "minimal brain dysfunction" were observed to be so distractible that they could not finish their schoolwork or focus on anything that was not extremely stimulating. There is no "physical evidence" for many psychological diagnoses--except for the dysfunction experienced by people who have them!
10 years later, with fMRI imaging available, we now know that ADHD brains do indeed function differently.
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LePetitPrince
Feminist activist O_o
Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Age: 26
Posts: 3458
Location: Beirut , Lebanon
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Callista wrote: | Tylenol causes 450 deaths each year--not counting overdose.
The arbitrary "normal at 5, ADHD at 6" cutoff is the same way every other psychiatric condition is diagnosed.
Ritalin has to be snorted or injected for a "high". It is not addictive in pill form.
Like autism, ADHD is a "new" diagnosis whose true rates are not yet known.
Every drug company has lobbyists. Ritalin is not unusual in that respect.
Any increase in anything can be shown to be "steep" (or insignificant) if the chart is constructed in different ways.
In 1998, there might not have been physical evidence; but long before then, children with "minimal brain dysfunction" were observed to be so distractible that they could not finish their schoolwork or focus on anything that was not extremely stimulating. There is no "physical evidence" for many psychological diagnoses--except for the dysfunction experienced by people who have them!
10 years later, with fMRI imaging available, we now know that ADHD brains do indeed function differently. |
The fMRI scans prove nothing since 93% of subjects "with ADHD" had been exposed to stimulants. There's no single organic proof for ADHD. I hope that HF/AS is not also another psychiatric lie that we just succumbed into it (yet, after many readings, I am starting to see that too). |
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Callista
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 04, 2006
Age: 25
Posts: 1663
Location: Central USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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They tested that, too, actually:
1. Find people with subclinical ADHD traits (who haven't been on medication); test them.
2. Find people without ADHD who used amphetamines; test them.
I guess you could go through a population of kids who aren't on anything and see if there's a match between brain scans and ADHD symptoms; but I haven't seen anything like that yet. It'd be expensive to do because you'd have to scan hundreds of kids for every undetected ADHD case.
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2ukenkerl
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 4860
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| LePetitPrince wrote: | | Callista wrote: | Tylenol causes 450 deaths each year--not counting overdose.
The arbitrary "normal at 5, ADHD at 6" cutoff is the same way every other psychiatric condition is diagnosed.
Ritalin has to be snorted or injected for a "high". It is not addictive in pill form.
Like autism, ADHD is a "new" diagnosis whose true rates are not yet known.
Every drug company has lobbyists. Ritalin is not unusual in that respect.
Any increase in anything can be shown to be "steep" (or insignificant) if the chart is constructed in different ways.
In 1998, there might not have been physical evidence; but long before then, children with "minimal brain dysfunction" were observed to be so distractible that they could not finish their schoolwork or focus on anything that was not extremely stimulating. There is no "physical evidence" for many psychological diagnoses--except for the dysfunction experienced by people who have them!
10 years later, with fMRI imaging available, we now know that ADHD brains do indeed function differently. |
The fMRI scans prove nothing since 93% of subjects "with ADHD" had been exposed to stimulants. There's no single organic proof for ADHD. I hope that HF/AS is not also another psychiatric lie that we just succumbed into it (yet, after many readings, I am starting to see that too). |
HF/AS is often a bit different than ADHD. In fact, ASD includes ADD.
I, and many here, spoke of how we just figured we were "weird". Who is to say WHAT is normal? I mean less than 1/2 the world, at least if you exclude china, is male. Whites are probably a minority. Light eyes are a minority. I'm already starting to sound a bit unusual, and I haven't even started.
I wouldn't believe AS, except that so many things that it describes, that are considered WEIRD, fit me. So I know the observations are real. Is it a MALADY? Are they all the same? Is it simply something like blue eyes? WHO KNOWS? Likewise, ADHD as an observation may be correct, etc.... It is simply the idea that it is a malady, has 10% smaller brain, and needs ritalin, etc..... |
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Callista
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 04, 2006
Age: 25
Posts: 1663
Location: Central USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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Remember that deviance from the norm isn't the exclusive criterion for a psychological diagnosis. There also has to be dysfunction and/or distress caused by the condition. No matter how far off the norm you are, if you aren't unhappy, hurting anybody else, or hindered by the condition, you can't be diagnosed. Lots of perfectly sane eccentrics can't be diagnosed with anything.
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Female. Engineering student. Gamer. Christian. Asexual. Information Addict. Deal with it!
Reports from a Resident Alien:
http://chaoticidealism.livejournal.com |
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MR
Deinonychus
Joined: Jun 25, 2008
Age: 39
Posts: 392
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| 2ukenkerl wrote: | So what was it about? It was about having tangible PROOF that ADHD was a real disease! The salient information was basically:
1. Why is a person with 5 matches normal, and suddenly diseased at 6? They got applause for that.
2. Ritalin is ADDICTIVE!
3. The makers of Ritalin are big LOBBYISTS
4. People are QUICK to diagnose. They said it was 5 MILLION, and showed a chart showing a STEEP climb over several years.
5. They CLAIM ADHD brains averaged 10% smaller, but glossed over the fact that it was meaningless for TWO reasons! 1. Brains varied in size ANYWAY! 2. They were on ritalin for years, so such claims are distorted.
6. They ADMIT there is no proof, etc...
Basically, the point is to NOT diagnose so quickly, and ralize that NORMAL has more variants. BTW they said ritalin had about 3000 recorded complications and, I believe, almost 600 were MAJOR with like 180 of them being DEATHS! |
Seems to me if that's all the point, and if it's a solid point, they should say, with an appropriate label, instead of saying it's "100% fraud", which, as I said, is definitely B.S. Whoever gave that video the "100% fraud" label has shown that their viewpoint is not one I can trust
I do, though, reallty dislike the idea of drugs for ADD/ADHD. Yeah, instead of accepting someone's difference and letting them be who they are, let's give them a drug to make them normal. I'll pass. |
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Callista
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 04, 2006
Age: 25
Posts: 1663
Location: Central USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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Ritalin doesn't seem to change personality, though... nor does it make them normal even when they're on it. All the ADHD people I've met just seemed a little calmer on their meds. (I don't know about me, because medication doesn't work for me, though I've thought maybe a really tiny dose might.)
I wholeheartedly agree with not automatically medicating ADHD. In many cases, meds aren't necessary because the kid can be taught how to self-regulate better; and if you need meds, you're definitely going to benefit a lot more if you are taught those coping skills, because you've probably got bad habits from when you tried to live without a lot of attention regulation.
Best possible ADHD treatment: Medication plus counseling that involves the kid's family. (That means not just teaching Junior how to organize his homework, but teaching his mom to stop nagging him as she has been for years, and start supporting him, being really consistent with the rules, being nicer about honest mistakes.... ADHD apparently raises the difficulty of parenting a child, and on top of that many parents are impatient thanks to their own ADHD!)
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Female. Engineering student. Gamer. Christian. Asexual. Information Addict. Deal with it!
Reports from a Resident Alien:
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Amitiel
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Sep 14, 2008
Posts: 57
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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I watched a minute or two at the beginning of the video. The guy is presenting his opinion and backing it up with factual data - looks really interesting.
I will look again later.
Thanks. |
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lexis
Raven
Joined: Sep 28, 2008
Age: 18
Posts: 106
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| I understand there is a problem in america with over-diagnosis, however, in many other countries it is actually very difficult to get diagnosed with ADHD. |
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anna-banana
and yet it moves!
Joined: Aug 31, 2008
Age: 25
Posts: 1728
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| lexis wrote: | | I understand there is a problem in america with over-diagnosis, however, in many other countries it is actually very difficult to get diagnosed with ADHD. |
it took 3 different doctors and a lifetime of concentration problems for me to get diagnosed with ADD. and now I don't need it that much since I've already struggled my way through education. so yeah, I'd say it might not be such a bad idea to be quick (AND accurate) with the diagnosis.
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