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LePetitPrince
Feminist activist O_o
Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Age: 26
Posts: 3458
Location: Beirut , Lebanon
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 Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:37 pm Post subject: The subjectivity of psychiatry was exposed long time ago... |
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A well known old experience was done by Rosenhan , David Rosenhan was a American psychologist who exposed the great amount of subjectivity in psychiatric diagnosis . Ok, I am not a medical student and I am aware that all kinds of medical diagnosis might be prone to some subjectivity but not THAT MUCH as psychiatric diagnosis as his experience proved.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment
The pseudopatient experiment
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For the purposes of the study, eight "pseudopatients" (associates of Rosenhan selected to be a group of varied and healthy individuals) attempted to gain admission to psychiatric hospitals. During psychiatric assessment they claimed to be hearing voices that were often unclear, but which seemed to pronounce the words "empty," "hollow" and "thud." No other psychiatric symptoms were claimed, and apart from giving false names and employment details, further biographical details were truthfully reported. If admitted, the pseudopatients were asked to "act normally," report that they felt fine and no longer heard voices.
The pseudopatients were: a psychology graduate student in his twenties, three psychologists, a pediatrician, a psychiatrist, a painter and a housewife. None had a history of mental illness. If admitted, they were to act normally and not display any obvious psychopathology. Subjects were to remain as inpatients until they were discharged by the staff at their hospitals, who were not privy to the experiment and believed the subjects to be real psychiatric patients.
All eight were admitted, seven with a diagnosis of schizophrenia, the last with bipolar disorder. Even after admission, none of the pseudopatients were identified as imposters by the hospital staff, although other psychiatric patients seemed to be able to correctly identify them as impostors. In the first three hospitalizations notes remarks made by patients to pseudopatients were kept and 35 of the total of 118 patients expressed a suspicion that the pseudopatients were sane. All of the pseudopatients were discharged with a diagnosis of schizophrenia "in remission." Their stays ranged from 7 to 52 days and the average was 19 days.
Hospital notes indicated that staff interpreted much of the pseudopatient's behaviour in terms of mental illness. For example, one observer, apparently oblivious to the irony, labeled the note-taking of one pseudopatient as "writing behavior" and considered it pathological. In contrast, actual patients would accuse them of being researchers or journalists based entirely on the same writing behavior. |
lol
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The non-existent impostor experiment
For this experiment, Rosenhan used a well-known research and teaching hospital, whose staff had heard of the results of the initial study but claimed that similar errors could not be made at their institution. Rosenhan arranged with them that during a three month period, one or more pseudopatients would attempt to gain admission and the staff would rate every incoming patient as to the likelihood they were an impostor. Out of 193 patients, 41 were considered to be impostors and a further 42 were considered suspect. In reality, Rosenhan had sent no pseudopatients and all patients suspected as impostors by the hospital staff were genuine patients. This led to a conclusion that "any diagnostic process that lends itself too readily to massive errors of this sort cannot be a very reliable one". Studies by others found similarly problematic diagnostic results. |
PWNED hahaha
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Related experiments
Maurice K. Temerlin split 25 psychiatrists into two groups and had them listen to an actor portraying a character of normal mental health. One group was told that the actor "was a very interesting man because he looked neurotic, but actually was quite psychotic" while the other was told nothing. Sixty percent of the former group diagnosed psychoses, most often schizophrenia, while none of the control group did so.[2]
Loring and Powell gave 290 psychiatrists a transcript of a patient interview and told half of them that the patients were black and the other half white; they concluded of the results that "Clinicians appear to ascribe violence, suspiciousness, and dangerousness to black clients even though the case studies are the same as the case studies for the white clients".[3] |
looool
Not to mention that the Electroshock ,was a well-known and widely practice used by psychiatrists(and still practiced in many countries) to treat certain mental diseases ....the ECT has been proven by many studies that it causes more permanent damage to the brain.
I am totally sure that psychiatry is still prone to such great amount of subjectivity since there's still no medical tools that 'diagnose' most mental "illnesses". |
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Aurore
Dingo Lycanthrope
Joined: Dec 07, 2007
Age: 18
Posts: 1192
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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Dude. Definitely. It's an important field, but god, is it biased.
This is one of the big reasons why I'm going into psychology myself - I don't want a bunch of idiots messing things up for their patients.  Here's hoping I'll be better then these people.
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"The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls..." |
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Fayed
Sea Gull
Joined: Sep 25, 2007
Age: 21
Posts: 224
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| Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Your right, the experiment called Psychology is obviously a failure and has yielded no useful results. Let us abandon all psychological ideas and return to the world we had before it. Are you different? Then you must be possessed. If we can not excise the demon inside you, you might magically disappear, or maybe abandoned by your family.
Is psychology subjective? Yes. Your point? Its not new information. Psychology deals with the mind, a subjective entity itself. So is it really suprise dealing with it will involve an extreme amount of subjectivity?
You seem to have a vendetta against anything psychology. Would you rather those with autism just be abandoned because psychology doesn't fit some idealistic view of it? Yes Psychology does have its down sides, sides maybe you are all to familiar with. But everything this a downside. Every medical field has its dark side. Psychology's is more prominent because people are different, so the same things aren't going to work for everyone, but they will for many. |
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anbuend
Oak-Type Autie
Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 3302
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| Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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Personally, I think most of psychiatry is pseudoscience.
I don't think that means we have to go back to prior beliefs. Why would we? Why are there only two choices?
But I do think that some branches of psychology are probably scientific, such as cognitive psych. And a lot of stuff currently lumped into psychiatry ought to be handled by neurology. The rest, I hope they either invent a new discipline for entirely (the foundations of a good deal of psychiatry are rotten at the core, and it's hard to go from those foundations to something good, though not impossible), or else leave to something other than medicine, depending on what they are.
But... yeah. I don't understand why people always say that doing away with most of psychiatry means that we'd have to become superstitious, as if those are the only two options.
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"We may seem in the gutter from up there where you are but maybe you don't know we still see the same stars." -Donna Williams |
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LePetitPrince
Feminist activist O_o
Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Age: 26
Posts: 3458
Location: Beirut , Lebanon
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| Fayed wrote: | Your right, the experiment called Psychology is obviously a failure and has yielded no useful results. Let us abandon all psychological ideas and return to the world we had before it. Are you different? Then you must be possessed. If we can not excise the demon inside you, you might magically disappear, or maybe abandoned by your family.
Is psychology subjective? Yes. Your point? Its not new information. Psychology deals with the mind, a subjective entity itself. So is it really suprise dealing with it will involve an extreme amount of subjectivity?
You seem to have a vendetta against anything psychology. Would you rather those with autism just be abandoned because psychology doesn't fit some idealistic view of it? Yes Psychology does have its down sides, sides maybe you are all to familiar with. But everything this a downside. Every medical field has its dark side. Psychology's is more prominent because people are different, so the same things aren't going to work for everyone, but they will for many. |
You are totally confused dear smarty. I have a vendetta against Psychiatry and not psychology, and the expirement was done by psychologist and it was aimed against Psychiatry. |
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Sora
Love all, trust a few
Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Age: 20
Posts: 2854
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:13 am Post subject: Re: The subjectivity of psychiatry was exposed long time ago |
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| LePetitPrince wrote: |
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Even after admission, none of the pseudopatients were identified as imposters by the hospital staff, although other psychiatric patients seemed to be able to correctly identify them as impostors. In the first three hospitalizations notes remarks made by patients to pseudopatients were kept and 35 of the total of 118 patients expressed a suspicion that the pseudopatients were sane. |
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That's what I think is very interesting.
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The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. Terry Pratchett |
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Fogman
Econo-class Iconoclast
Joined: Jun 20, 2005
Age: 41
Posts: 2054
Location: SC, USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:05 am Post subject: |
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Back in the 80's, a reknowned Freudian Psychoanalist was hired to provide a lecture to a graduating class at an Ivy League school. For a couple hours, he gave a very exhaustive, in depth lecture on advanced psychoanalytical theory and practice without realising that the class he was lecturing was an advanced psychology class, and the reason that the class elected him to lecture them was soully for the purpose of general entertainment, rather than academic discourse.
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"Blessed are the Distinctly Alien, for they shall inherit the Earth." -- Genesis P. Orridge |
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