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Triangular_Trees
What is right is sometimes found on the left.
Joined: Jul 18, 2007
Posts: 2053
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 Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| kramer1 wrote: | Wow. I couldn't even imagine how to handle this. All I can say is...
Homosexuality is not ok with me and if my son or my gf's son (the Aspie) proclaimed to be so I would express my displeasure whether they had Aspergers or not. I would not be ok with this.....AT ALL.
I'm sure I'd get over it eventually, but you should definitely not hold back your feelings simply due to his AS. |
Yes, always better to share your hate and make your child feel even more miserable about something that can't be changed than to behave in a manner that shows your love for him is true love and not a kind of love that is contigent on him changing something about himself that is impossible for him to change
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DW_a_mom
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Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 1251
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| kramer1 wrote: | Wow. I couldn't even imagine how to handle this. All I can say is...
Homosexuality is not ok with me and if my son or my gf's son (the Aspie) proclaimed to be so I would express my displeasure whether they had Aspergers or not. I would not be ok with this.....AT ALL.
I'm sure I'd get over it eventually, but you should definitely not hold back your feelings simply due to his AS. |
I think it is possible to share your personal feelings without alienating your child, but that would be very difficult. The first goal of any parent should be to keep the avenues of communication open, and I hope you will give some thought to how you might do that should such a situation ever arise. It's important, I think, for us parents to prepared for who our children are, like it or not, and to know how to keep them in our lives, how to find acceptance, especially when we do NOT like who it turns out they are.
I have never forgotten one conversation I had with my father. He was a very strict person, but he did have a pragmatic side, and when we were teens he basically told us that we should not be afraid to approach him if we found ourselves pregnant. He certainly hoped he had taught us better than that, and we could expect he was going to be angry about it, but he wanted us to know that he would get over it, that he would still love us, and that he would love the baby and help us raise it. He laid out the game plan for if we were to ever make that particular mistake. And I appreciated it. If he hadn't told us that, I might not have known that I could take such an issue to him. Fortunately I never had to, and in many ways knowing the game plan helped with the prevention. I didn't want to disappoint him because I respected him so much.
I think the best answer for a parent who has concerns about a child revealing his homosexuality for religious reasons, for example, is to say simply, "you know that I believe the ACT is a sin, so please don't engage in any sexual activity, at least not yet, you are very young and I would say that no matter what your orientation was. I am going to struggle with this announcement you've given me, but I still love you and believe in you." Not "love the sinner hate the sin" - I am talking more real acceptance than that. Most who are gay feel very strongly that they were born that way, that they did not choose it, and when you say that even the inclination is a sin, if never acted upon, you rip at the core of who they are. I do not believe that is what the Bible teaches, that the being/existence is a sin. I don't know how you personally split the hairs on this, just sharing because it could just come up in your life.
As to the OP, I think you are taking a sound approach.
As I posted earlier, one of the things that concerns me most is that I just don't believe 13 is old enough to "know." Encourage him to keep his options open.
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annie2
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Joined: Sep 18, 2007
Posts: 345
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with what DWaMom said. I think 13 is too young to understand enough about relationships to know that. I also agree with others who say that his AS may be confusing this issue for him. I notice with my son (much younger) that he does some "girlie" things that other boys his age wouldn't do, simply because he doesn't understand or care about the male/female stereotypes that kids start picking up in the early years.
I would encourage your son to leave relationships alone for a few years. My son is 8 yrs and I'm already encouraging him not to bother with that whole side of things until he leaves school (around 17). We've had some problems with inappropriate kissing, and so the easiest way to address it was just to say that you never kiss anyone at school, and to not worry about that whole side of things until you're older. |
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Tortuga
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Joined: Dec 12, 2007
Posts: 512
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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I would be concerned about him having a facebook page. With all the bullying in school, cyber bullying is a big concern of mine. I'm keeping my kid off the internet as much as possible. The computer is in an area of the house where everyone can see when you're on it.
Especially, for a sensitive child, the internet is a cruel place to post private information about yourself. |
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Fidget
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Age: 18
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Location: IL, USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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You kind of remind me of my mom when I told her (I was also thirteen, though I knew for a couple of years) she thought I might be confused because of my AS, but just for the record, I'm eighteen now, and um.... still gay!
I also did start making more female friends once I came out at school, but that wasn't until I was about sixteen. A lot of young girls tend to go "Oh my god, you're gay?! Let's go shopping!" :p |
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Fidget
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Age: 18
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Location: IL, USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| DW_a_mom wrote: |
As I posted earlier, one of the things that concerns me most is that I just don't believe 13 is old enough to "know." Encourage him to keep his options open. |
DW, speaking from experience, 13 is definitelly old enough to know. I knew when I was eleven, but because of my homophobic step-dad, I tried to deny it for years before I finally accepted it. Many of my friends are also gay, and I have friends who have known even as early as elementary school. Really, as soon as heterosexuals are old enough where they start having feelings for the opposite sex, that's the same time homosexuals start having feelings for the same sex. I understand I'm eighteen, and you might just dismiss me as a dumb young kid who doesn't know what I'm talking about, but this has been a huge part of my life personally, as well as many many other people I know and care about, so I can tell you this for a fact. |
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DW_a_mom
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Joined: Feb 23, 2008
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Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Fidget wrote: | | DW_a_mom wrote: |
As I posted earlier, one of the things that concerns me most is that I just don't believe 13 is old enough to "know." Encourage him to keep his options open. |
DW, speaking from experience, 13 is definitelly old enough to know. I knew when I was eleven, but because of my homophobic step-dad, I tried to deny it for years before I finally accepted it. Many of my friends are also gay, and I have friends who have known even as early as elementary school. Really, as soon as heterosexuals are old enough where they start having feelings for the opposite sex, that's the same time homosexuals start having feelings for the same sex. I understand I'm eighteen, and you might just dismiss me as a dumb young kid who doesn't know what I'm talking about, but this has been a huge part of my life personally, as well as many many other people I know and care about, so I can tell you this for a fact. |
I'm not going to say you are a dumb kid.
But I might suggest your experience is not universal.
One thing that concerns me is that different children mature in terms of puberty at different times. For some, the hormones won't race and interest won't emerge until much later. I don't want a child who isn't feeling anything for anyone to misconstrue that.
I also don't want a child to misconstrue normal interest in a variety of sexual attributes as definitive. Not all kids can understand or relate to the sliding scale of sexuality concept, and could assume that one spark of interest in a certain person represents the whole of their sexuality, when it does not. I was once on a forum where over half the women, all married, all "straight" per se, admitted that they were physically attracted to Angelina Jolie. We've been around the block enough to know what it does ... and does not ... mean. But does a 13 year old? Not always.
I'm only suggesting that a child not make choices that lock the doors on different ones later on. Things do change as people grow. Sexuality included.
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kramer1
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Oct 01, 2008
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| Triangular_Trees wrote: | | kramer1 wrote: | Wow. I couldn't even imagine how to handle this. All I can say is...
Homosexuality is not ok with me and if my son or my gf's son (the Aspie) proclaimed to be so I would express my displeasure whether they had Aspergers or not. I would not be ok with this.....AT ALL.
I'm sure I'd get over it eventually, but you should definitely not hold back your feelings simply due to his AS. |
Yes, always better to share your hate and make your child feel even more miserable about something that can't be changed than to behave in a manner that shows your love for him is true love and not a kind of love that is contigent on him changing something about himself that is impossible for him to change |
Honesty is the best policy. Homosexuality disgusts me. I wouldn't patronize him because he has AS. I wouldn't treat my own son any differently, either. It's not ok. Period.
I'd still love them, but I'd be lying if I said things wouldn't be different. They most certainly would. |
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Triangular_Trees
What is right is sometimes found on the left.
Joined: Jul 18, 2007
Posts: 2053
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Honesty is the best policy. Homosexuality disgusts me. I wouldn't patronize him because he has AS. I wouldn't treat my own son any differently, either. It's not ok. Period.
I'd still love them, but I'd be lying if I said things wouldn't be different. They most certainly would |
If you loved him, then you could accept him for the person he is. If you don't love him, then you won't accept him for who he is. People who love their children, accept their children. If you are going to treat your son differently because of natural desiresthat you are fully aware he is unable to keep from having, then your not going to be able to sell me on the idea that you truly love him. And you are going to have an even tougher time convincing him of that. The damage of your initial bigotry will effect him long after you come to grips with reality and accept his homosexuality
Homosexuality is found in a lot of non-human species. Would you stop caring your dog if you found he was only interested in having sex with other male dogs? Why not? Your going to treat your son differently for having the same interestes
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http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt74894.html
Last edited by Triangular_Trees on Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kramer1
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Oct 01, 2008
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| Triangular_Trees wrote: | | Quote: | Honesty is the best policy. Homosexuality disgusts me. I wouldn't patronize him because he has AS. I wouldn't treat my own son any differently, either. It's not ok. Period.
I'd still love them, but I'd be lying if I said things wouldn't be different. They most certainly would |
If you loved him, then you could accept him for the person he is. If you don't love him, then you won't accept him for who he is. People who love their children, accept their children. If you are going to treat your son differently because of natural desiresthat you are fully aware he is unable to keep from having, then your not going to be able to sell me on the idea that you truly love him.
Homosexuality is found in a lot of non-human species. Would you stop caring your dog if you found he was only interested in having sex with other male dogs? Why not? Your going to treat your son differently for having the same interestes |
Just stop. Seriously. |
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Triangular_Trees
What is right is sometimes found on the left.
Joined: Jul 18, 2007
Posts: 2053
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Just stop. Seriously. |
I will never stop talking when hatred and bigotry that is both needless and harmful is being put forth by someone. To not speak up against such things is akin to spreading the hatred yourself
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kramer1
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Oct 01, 2008
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Triangular_Trees wrote: | | Quote: | | Just stop. Seriously. |
I will never stop talking when hatred and bigotry that is both needless and harmful is being put forth by someone. To not speak up against such things is akin to spreading the hatred yourself |
Get over yourself. I never expressed hatred. Hell. I watch the damn LOGO channel from time to time. I just don't agree with it. It disgusts ME. I would not be ok with it in any way, shape, or form if my son or gf's son told me he was gay. End of discussion. |
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Triangular_Trees
What is right is sometimes found on the left.
Joined: Jul 18, 2007
Posts: 2053
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Get over yourself. I never expressed hatred. Hell. I watch the damn LOGO channel from time to time. I just don't agree with it. It disgusts ME. I would not be ok with it in any way, shape, or form if my son or gf's son told me he was gay. End of discussion |
The bolded part of your quote is hatred. Its a prime example of it
Webster definition of hatred: prejudiced hostility or animosity
Its both needless and harmful and will do nothing but serve to create a million problems that otherwise would never be present. And some of those problems manufactured by your hatred are likely to be ones that your son or gfs son may never be able to get past even after you get over your hatred and bigotry toward the person they are and have no choice but to be. And thats only assuming the child in question doesn't become one of the many who commit suicide because of their parents bigotry toward them (A gay teen is 300% more likely to kill himself than a heterosexual teen and that staggering difference is attributed to lack of acceptance about the teens sexual orientation)
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Did I post an attack on you? If so, please read this before making a reply
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt74894.html
Last edited by Triangular_Trees on Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:34 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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DW_a_mom
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 1251
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| kramer1 wrote: | | Triangular_Trees wrote: | | Quote: | | Just stop. Seriously. |
I will never stop talking when hatred and bigotry that is both needless and harmful is being put forth by someone. To not speak up against such things is akin to spreading the hatred yourself |
Get over yourself. I never expressed hatred. Hell. I watch the damn LOGO channel from time to time. I just don't agree with it. It disgusts ME. I would not be ok with it in any way, shape, or form if my son or gf's son told me he was gay. End of discussion. |
OK.
I understand that, actually.
Emotion is emotion, and our values are our values.
HOWEVER, I would ask one thing, if this is ever a situation you find yourself in with respect to a child to which you are a parent or who sees you as a parent:
Tell the child that the problem is you, within you, all you have been taught and believe, and then perhaps agree to simply not discuss it or otherwise make it obvious until you feel you are ready. Don't ever bring it up just to convince him it is wrong - any child who has grown up with you will know exactly how you feel and why.
My Dad, who I posted about earlier in this thread, used to feel as you do. He was quite vocal about it to us as kids. And then my cousin came out as gay. At first all he said was, "I've always thought that might be so," and then he avoided talking about it. My cousin lived a few states away, so he didn't have to try to avoid him.
Years later my cousin moved into our area. And my father did what was, to us, the most shocking thing: he invited my cousin to lunch, and asked him to meet him at his office, where he introduced him to everyone he worked with. My Dad would never admit he had changed his mind about anything, but in one swooping gesture, he showed the world. He told us later that while he still didn't care for it, he had to accept that his nephew was born that way, that he had no choice and, therefore, since he also knew his nephew was a really smart and thoughtful person, well, he had to accept him exactly as he was. My cousin did not know until my Dad passed away how much of a challenge he had posed to my father. He didn't know how he had felt before. He only knew how accepting he was of him once he had moved nearby.
People change. Their views change. Don't allow a perspective you have today to ever allow you to alienate yourself from someone to which you are a parent, or as good as a parent, or are otherwise related to, or seen as a mentor by.
You don't have to take on views you disagree with. But you may have to swallow your own. If not, you will regret it.
This is what I know from my life experience.
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Fidget
Supporting Member
Joined: Jun 30, 2008
Age: 18
Posts: 387
Location: IL, USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| DW_a_mom wrote: | | kramer1 wrote: | | Triangular_Trees wrote: | | Quote: | | Just stop. Seriously. |
I will never stop talking when hatred and bigotry that is both needless and harmful is being put forth by someone. To not speak up against such things is akin to spreading the hatred yourself |
Get over yourself. I never expressed hatred. Hell. I watch the damn LOGO channel from time to time. I just don't agree with it. It disgusts ME. I would not be ok with it in any way, shape, or form if my son or gf's son told me he was gay. End of discussion. |
OK.
I understand that, actually.
Emotion is emotion, and our values are our values.
HOWEVER, I would ask one thing, if this is ever a situation you find yourself in with respect to a child to which you are a parent or who sees you as a parent:
Tell the child that the problem is you, within you, all you have been taught and believe, and then perhaps agree to simply not discuss it or otherwise make it obvious until you feel you are ready. Don't ever bring it up just to convince him it is wrong - any child who has grown up with you will know exactly how you feel and why.
My Dad, who I posted about earlier in this thread, used to feel as you do. He was quite vocal about it to us as kids. And then my cousin came out as gay. At first all he said was, "I've always thought that might be so," and then he avoided talking about it. My cousin lived a few states away, so he didn't have to try to avoid him.
Years later my cousin moved into our area. And my father did what was, to us, the most shocking thing: he invited my cousin to lunch, and asked him to meet him at his office, where he introduced him to everyone he worked with. My Dad would never admit he had changed his mind about anything, but in one swooping gesture, he showed the world. He told us later that while he still didn't care for it, he had to accept that his nephew was born that way, that he had no choice and, therefore, since he also knew his nephew was a really smart and thoughtful person, well, he had to accept him exactly as he was. My cousin did not know until my Dad passed away how much of a challenge he had posed to my father. He didn't know how he had felt before. He only knew how accepting he was of him once he had moved nearby.
People change. Their views change. Don't allow a perspective you have today to ever allow you to alienate yourself from someone to which you are a parent, or as good as a parent, or are otherwise related to, or seen as a mentor by.
You don't have to take on views you disagree with. But you may have to swallow your own. If not, you will regret it.
This is what I know from my life experience. |
That's a nice story about your dad. I understand with the way society views homosexuality, especially older generations, there are otherwise good people who are unfortunately prejudiced in that way. And I know it can be hard for most people to accept something they don't agree with. So, it's nice to see he put aside his own personal views on homosexuality to do the right thing and not push his family away. Your dad seems like a strong person and I applaud him for that. :] |
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