 
Support Wrong Planet Awareness!
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Kelsi
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 23, 2007
Posts: 643
Location: Australia
|
 Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:26 am Post subject: Human Evolution Is Over |
 |
|
Leading geneticist Steve Jones says human evolution is over
The Times
October 7, 2008
Julia Belluz
Human evolution is grinding to a halt because of a shortage of older fathers in the West, according to a leading genetics expert.
Fathers over the age of 35 are more likely to pass on mutations, according to Professor Steve Jones, of University College London.
Speaking today at a UCL lecture entitled “Human evolution is over” Professor Jones will argue that there were three components to evolution – natural selection, mutation and random change. “Quite unexpectedly, we have dropped the human mutation rate because of a change in reproductive patterns,” Professor Jones told The Times.
“Human social change often changes our genetic future,” he said, citing marriage patterns and contraception as examples. Although chemicals and radioactive pollution could alter genetics, one of the most important mutation triggers is advanced age in men.
This is because cell divisions in males increase with age. “Every time there is a cell division, there is a chance of a mistake, a mutation, an error,” he said. “For a 29-year old father [the mean age of reproduction in the West] there are around 300 divisions between the sperm that made him and the one he passes on – each one with an opportunity to make mistakes.
“For a 50-year-old father, the figure is well over a thousand. A drop in the number of older fathers will thus have a major effect on the rate of mutation.”
Professor Jones added: “In the old days, you would find one powerful man having hundreds of children.” He cites the fecund Moulay Ismail of Morocco, who died in the 18th century, and is reputed to have fathered 888 children. To achieve this feat, Ismail is thought to have copulated with an average of about 1.2 women a day over 60 years.
Another factor is the weakening of natural selection. “In ancient times half our children would have died by the age of 20. Now, in the Western world, 98 per cent of them are surviving to 21.”
Decreasing randomness is another contributing factor. “Humans are 10,000 times more common than we should be, according to the rules of the animal kingdom, and we have agriculture to thank for that. Without farming, the world population would probably have reached half a million by now – about the size of the population of Glasgow.
“Small populations which are isolated can evolve at random as genes are accidentally lost. World-wide, all populations are becoming connected and the opportunity for random change is dwindling. History is made in bed, but nowadays the beds are getting closer together. We are mixing into a glo-bal mass, and the future is brown.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article4894696.ece |
|
| Back to top |
|
philosopherBoi
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 07, 2008
Age: 20
Posts: 1019
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| He has forgotten about two other component of evolution informed selection and symbiosis. In the case of informed selection we choose the traits we like in mates, and of coruse with symbiosis it affects our genes because when we are not living in harmony with nature mutations are much more likely. |
|
| Back to top |
|
patternist
Stirring the pot....
Joined: Jul 29, 2008
Age: 35
Posts: 1833
Location: wouldn't you like to know?
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| It sounds like a lot of unfounded speculation to me, although I must admit I feel kind of proud to be a potential mutant, since my dad was 45 at the time of my birth.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
Perambulator
Snowy Owl
Joined: Feb 10, 2008
Age: 24
Posts: 141
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
Human evolution isn't over. Old men still have children. The current social situation is likely to change within a matter of 5, 10 years if not a little later. This scientist is not a particularly big thinker to be honest.
I was seeded from an older than average father and have no doubt that that has contributed to my wonderful uniqueness. |
|
| Back to top |
|
slowmutant
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 8640
Location: Ontario, Canada
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
Who are we to argue with whatever Steve Jones says?  |
|
| Back to top |
|
philosopherBoi
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 07, 2008
Age: 20
Posts: 1019
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| slowmutant wrote: | | Who are we to argue with whatever Steve Jones says? |
Silly we have the brains so we have a right to disagree and yes argue with what he is saying. |
|
| Back to top |
|
pheonixiis
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 02, 2007
Age: 31
Posts: 682
Location: sifting through the ashes
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I thought that the average age of men (especially) didn't get much past thirty very often in the pleistocene, or pre-history.
For that matter- wasn't it fairly recent (in the last 500 years or so) that most men regularly reached that age anyway?
_________________
Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself.
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)
-Walt Whitman |
|
| Back to top |
|
patternist
Stirring the pot....
Joined: Jul 29, 2008
Age: 35
Posts: 1833
Location: wouldn't you like to know?
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Coming from an anthropology background, I call bullsh*t unless I see comparative hard census data from *now* and *then* and the *now* and *then* defined. As I said earlier, seems like unfounded speculation. I can do the same, but it doesn't get me published.
But it's an appealing idea, possibly being a mutant. I want to be like Wolverine! |
|
| Back to top |
|
Nachtus01
Blue Jay
Joined: Sep 15, 2008
Age: 36
Posts: 96
Location: Oregon, USA
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: Human Evolution Is Over |
|
|
| Kelsi wrote: | Leading geneticist Steve Jones says human evolution is over
Professor Jones added: “In the old days, you would find one powerful man having hundreds of children.” He cites the fecund Moulay Ismail of Morocco, who died in the 18th century, and is reputed to have fathered 888 children. To achieve this feat, Ismail is thought to have copulated with an average of about 1.2 women a day over 60 years. |
I really have a large problem with these figures. I know that for the average person each time you ejaculate, you have fewer sperm to work with the next time. It takes 24-36 hour to rebuild these levels. Furthermore, even sleeping with 1.2 women, it would require that almost all of them be ovulating or very close to ovulating to achieve such high numbers. Not to mention the fact that the .2 women probably couldn't conceive just from being dead. (How much would of a person would you be if you were only 2%, a toe?) ok, sarcasm part is over.  [/quote]
_________________
Doing the right thing isn't always fair, but doing the fair thing is always right. |
|
| Back to top |
|
LeKiwi
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 27, 2007
Posts: 2589
Location: The murky waters of my mind...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
codarac
Deinonychus
Joined: Oct 29, 2006
Posts: 307
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Steve Jones is one of these "experts" who get paid lots to tell the liberal establishment what they want to hear.
"We are mixing into a global mass, and the future is brown", he says. Yeah, right. There's not much chance of China going brown any time soon, is there?
Nope, just the West. |
|
| Back to top |
|
anna-banana
and yet it moves!
Joined: Aug 31, 2008
Age: 25
Posts: 1728
Location: Europe
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
shortage of older fathers? I'd say exactly the opposite. who wants to have kids before 30 nowdays? loads of people push it as much as they possibly can just to be able to enjoy their freedom longer. my parents were both 38 when they conceived me and that was back in the 80's and still considered unusual. nowdays it's more normal than having a kid at 20.
that theory seems a bit like the one about human males going extinct- far fetched to say the least.
_________________
I got some bad ideas in my head. (Taxi Driver) |
|
| Back to top |
|
Orwell
Outer Party Member
Joined: Aug 09, 2007
Age: 19
Posts: 4243
Location: Room 101
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| patternist wrote: | | It sounds like a lot of unfounded speculation to me, although I must admit I feel kind of proud to be a potential mutant, since my dad was 45 at the time of my birth.... |
There have been a few studies showing a correlation between older fathers and autism in children, presumable because of increased mutations. There are other possible explanations for it though; such as fathers who share some autistic-like traits perhaps marrying/procreating later than average, so we can't say for sure.
My dad was 29 at the time of my birth.
EDIT*: Hm, at the time of birth isn't really relevant, is it? My dad would have been 28 around the time of my conception, which would be the significant thing here.
_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH |
|
| Back to top |
|
Cyberman
Cyber Lieutenant
Joined: Apr 25, 2008
Posts: 1259
Location: Cyber Control
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| "Let's just say... God works too slowly." |
|
| Back to top |
|
MissConstrue
~Age of Aquarius~
Joined: Feb 05, 2008
Age: 26
Posts: 11893
Location: Anywhere but HERE!
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
Mutation, a good thing, a bad thing Steve Jones 
Let me think, isn't social change a requirement of a lot of changes? It's as if he's saying that now we are in the social change so that's that.
He also forgot natural selection. However his point probably does explain why I of all my family got the AS gene. My dad was 30 when I was born.
_________________
Oh you can't help that. We're all mad here.
__Cheshire
6thSin:Envy |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
