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BelindatheNobody
Sea Gull
Joined: Mar 24, 2008
Age: 18
Posts: 205
Location: Westfield
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 Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| LePetitPrince wrote: | | http://thiswayoflife.org/blog/?cat=28 |
And I don't understand why you just linked that. 
I read Joel's blog. And yes, I've already read both entries in catogory #28.
....I don't think you understand them though. I don't see why else you would have linked that. Maybe you should re-read them...
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Put me to sleep evil angel,
Open your wings evil angel.
Self reflections:
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LePetitPrince
Feminist activist O_o
Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Age: 26
Posts: 3458
Location: Beirut , Lebanon
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| BelindatheNobody wrote: | | LePetitPrince wrote: | | BelindatheNobody wrote: | LePetitPrince, I'm sorry, but... well, I'm laughing. I don't think you understand asperger's syndrome at all.
| Quote: | Diagnosis:
Unlike the Asgerger's symptoms , those symptoms are very clearly abnormal
* Very limited eye contact,
* Avoidance of physical contact,
* Inappropriate facial expressions and emotional responses,
* Inflexibility in routines,
* Repetitive movements like hand flapping,
* Delay in the development of speech, and speech without communicative gestures,
* Difficulty or inability to converse,
* Inflexible routines,
* Unusual interests with certain objects, and
* Onset of at least one of the above systems before the age of three.
Classic autism is a real DISABILITY because it interferes with one's ability to take care of his own (unless if he's professionally taught how to live by his/her , like the blind person) and its symptoms interferes with one's daily activities too |
Here. I bolded the things that can, and often DO occur in asperger's syndrome, as well as in classic autism. |
It's not about the names of the symptoms but the severity of each symptom. Most aspies are spot as geeks/odds/quirky/non-social/weirdos by others but not disabled ....that's not the case of classic auties tho..
Classic auties have each symptom far stronger...to an abnormal level. |
You'd be surprised.
I've heard of classic autistics who have jobs, blah, ect.
I'm "just" asperger's. I am disabled. I can't work. I can't live on my own.
Severity of symtoms can vary all over the spectrum, and yes, I do include asperger's when I say "spectrum".
I can't even look my own mother in the eye, 99.9% of the time. I tend to get highly agitated when someone touchs me certain ways (brushing lightly, some "tickling", oh hell, anything that isn't firm, and even some firm things) because it HURTS me. So yeah, I go out of my way to avoid physical contact. Inappropriate facial expressions and emotional responses? Most of the time, I have no facial expression. Period. A "normal" smile is something that happens so rarely, it's not even funny. When it happens, it's normally forced. And even when I force it? It doesn't come out "right" half the time. People have told me it looks "retarded", whatever they mean by that.  And when it does happen without being forced? 1) I don't even know it's happening (I cannot feel smiles when they aren't forced). 2) It happens when I am NOT happy, and very often at "inappropriate" times. That's just one example of the "inappropriate facial expressions" I have. And you really shouldn't get me started on my "inappropriate emotional responses". Seriously.
Inflexibility in routines, I admit, I'm not as bad with this as some. I only have one set routine currently, however, I do hold on to this one routine with all my being. For my sanity's sake.
Repetitive movements. Ah, stimming. Well, lets see here. I rock (a lot), I bounce my leg (also a lot). I sway from side-to-side frequently. I verbal stim frequently. I crack my neck constantly (I don't even want to know what random people who see me do this as I'm walking down the street think of me.). I grind my teeth quite a bit, and bite myself. Chew on objects a lot (thus, a love and slight addiction to gum. With gum, it looks "normal". With other things [headphone cords are a fave of mine]... not so much). Oh, and hand-flapping? While not a constant of mine, I do do it.
My mom said I did not have a "delay in the development of speech" (and you know, I'm not sure I quite trust her with that one... but what can I do?), that's why I'm diagnosed with asperger's, not classic "high-functioning autism". That said, I did have lots of speech problems when I was younger, and I was in speech therapy. I still have some speech problems.
Difficulty or inability to converse. *Laughs* Well. Strangers I cannot talk to at all. Period. It makes me worry: what if a cop comes by (for, oh, I dunno. Could be for a number of reasons. Such as: my mom's boyfriend's kid gets into trouble frequently, I just look weird [a while back, some little kid at a park said I was "stoned"! And I couldn't even talk, to say to the kid, "Hey, no, I don't do drugs. Never have, never will. I'm not stoned; just autistic. Do you know what autism is, kid?"], I freak out/have a meltdown in public, I space out a bit and act "weird" while I do it, ect, ect.) and my mom or someone who knows me well enough to explain me to the cop isn't around? I wouldn't be able to talk to the cop, and I don't think that would be a... good thing. And, yeah, I also cannot speak to people I know sometimes. Which usally sets off a meltdown.
Unusual interests with certain objects... while I can't list too many off the top of my head, I do have some. One example is fans. Not the paper ones (though I do like those too.); the electronic ones. You know, the ones with the "blades". I've been obsessed with those things since I was a little kid. I can stare at/into one for hours on end. I like to flick the blades around when the fan is off. I like to talk and makes noises into the fan; the noise distortion never fails to amuse me (and it is also something I can do for hours on end.). I like to stick objects into fans and listen to the noise it makes. I remember when my friend toke apart her fan to clean it out: I was so delighted! 
And as for "onset of at least one of the above systems before the age of three": my mom knew there was something "different" (well, actually she used the word "wrong", but I see nothing wrong with being on the spectrum. So I'll say "different".), since pretty much the begining. Oh, I was the first born, and I was definatly the problem baby/kid/teen/(and now) adult. When she had me... she told me "I used to think I was the world's worst mom: I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong...". I was the baby who just did NOT want to eat (I didn't like the texture and sensations of baby food. Yick.). I was the kid who always had to wear her shirts inside out (I couldn't stand the tags. These days I can just cut them out, but I couldn't do that back then, or I wouldn't be able to tell which was the front and which was the back.). I can go on and on.
~~~~~~~~~
And that's just me. I know there are aspies who have little to no difficulties. I know there are aspies who have a little more difficulty than a "little". I know there are aspies (and I am one of these) whose only reason they weren't diagnosed with classic "high-functioning autism", is merely because they didn't have a speech delay. And hell, I know there are people labeled "aspie" who really should have a different diagnoses (like maybe PDD-NOS). |
Dear BelindatheNobody, most Psychiatrics consider that the only difference between AS and Autism is speech delay , I think that the difference is much more than that and it's not necessarly just speech delay.
If you can't look at you own mother 99% of times , having great difficulties in having jobs , if you stare on a specific object for hours ,if you can't talk to strangers AT all , infinite stimming ....then that means one thing: You are a misdiagnosed classic HF autie! There's no other way to explain it ...the inexistance of speech delay doesn't automatically means that you are aspie, not at all. You fit the classic autism description 100% and not asperger , your exprience is the same smilair experience by classic auties and not exactly of those with asperger, Period.
Psychiatry is so subjective and so that's why it's so biased. |
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lotusblossom
Velociraptor
Joined: Jan 14, 2008
Posts: 461
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:49 am Post subject: |
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my 10 year old daughter is LFA (with low mental age and learning disabilities) and she is great. I love her so much and could not imagine her any other way.
I think her sensory problems really upset her though and it would be nice if researchers looked more into cureing sensory problems rather than so much work on eye contact and stimming and special interests.
At the ABA talk I attended the expert said proudly how she cured children and after working with her none of the clients children did special interests any more! I was so cross.
I think things that effect the persons quality of life (such as sensory probs) are fine to be got rid of but stuff that just embarrasses the parents (such as stimming) but gives the person satisfaction should be left alone.
I have naughty , autie, daughties lol
Interestingly people take more a dislike to myself and my younger child who have aspergers so I think we must do something different that puts people off but I am unable to tell what.
Last edited by lotusblossom on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Kelsi
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 23, 2007
Posts: 643
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| Kanner's, HFA, autism, Asperger's, PDD-NOS - I believe we ALL have the same model brain, only some of us have more pronounced sensory issues than others, and some of us are more engaged with the outer world than others, and some of us have additional 'conditions' or 'issues' to deal with, and some of us have experienced more acceptance and support than others, and some of us are less traumatized than others...... |
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BelindatheNobody
Sea Gull
Joined: Mar 24, 2008
Age: 18
Posts: 205
Location: Westfield
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:54 am Post subject: |
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| LePetitPrince wrote: | Dear BelindatheNobody, most Psychiatrics consider that the only difference between AS and Autism is speech delay , I think that the difference is much more than that and it's not necessarly just speech delay.
If you can't look at you own mother 99% of times , having great difficulties in having jobs , if you stare on a specific object for hours ,if you can't talk to strangers AT all , infinite stimming ....then that means one thing: You are a misdiagnosed classic HF autie! There's no other way to explain it ...the inexistance of speech delay doesn't automatically means that you are aspie, not at all. You fit the classic autism description 100% and not asperger , your exprience is the same smilair experience by classic auties and not exactly of those with asperger, Period.
Psychiatry is so subjective and so that's why it's so biased. |
The only difference is speech delay, and also supossidly something about "lack of self-care skills", which no one ever explains properly; and which I also find doesn't make sense. Seen pleantly of aspies around with varying degrees of this "lack of self-care skills".
*Shrug* Maybe I am misdiagnosed. It is a possibility.
_________________
Put me to sleep evil angel,
Open your wings evil angel.
Self reflections:
Nobody. Slytherin. Aspie. |
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choetso
Hummingbird
Joined: Oct 13, 2008
Age: 45
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:57 am Post subject: Curing autism is an option. |
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My serious opinion is that defective protein metabolism may cause many if not all of the symptoms of autism. I may be wrong.
Fact remains that a lot of autist kids get much better on a diet free from milk protein casein and wheat/rye/barley protein gluten!
Try it on yourselves, kids!
This may be my last posting for a while as I am going on holiday today, but I will be back. |
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lotusblossom
Velociraptor
Joined: Jan 14, 2008
Posts: 461
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:02 am Post subject: |
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The doctor told me that it was learning disability or low mental age that got you the low functioning autism diagnosis and speech delay for high.
I think its all a spectrum and I think other neurological problems like bipolar and schizophrenia are related as research shows a similar gene links them and also interestingly, GF/CF helps them too.
getting diagnosed as an adult is like being told that your hand has been missing since birth and that is why you have difficulty writing, you dont expect to find that something has always been missing and you didnt know.
I think in the past it would have been much easier as (especially in upper classes) it was seen as ok to anti social and eccentric just look at Haley (the comet guy) and spinoza. |
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LePetitPrince
Feminist activist O_o
Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Age: 26
Posts: 3458
Location: Beirut , Lebanon
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| BelindatheNobody wrote: | | LePetitPrince wrote: | Dear BelindatheNobody, most Psychiatrics consider that the only difference between AS and Autism is speech delay , I think that the difference is much more than that and it's not necessarly just speech delay.
If you can't look at you own mother 99% of times , having great difficulties in having jobs , if you stare on a specific object for hours ,if you can't talk to strangers AT all , infinite stimming ....then that means one thing: You are a misdiagnosed classic HF autie! There's no other way to explain it ...the inexistance of speech delay doesn't automatically means that you are aspie, not at all. You fit the classic autism description 100% and not asperger , your exprience is the same smilair experience by classic auties and not exactly of those with asperger, Period.
Psychiatry is so subjective and so that's why it's so biased. |
The only difference is speech delay, and also supossidly something about "lack of self-care skills", which no one ever explains properly; and which I also find doesn't make sense. Seen pleantly of aspies around with varying degrees of this "lack of self-care skills".
*Shrug* Maybe I am misdiagnosed. It is a possibility. |
BelindatheNobody,
I DID have a speech delay , I only said 1 to 2 words at age of 3 and half and talked my first sentence at age of 5 , my proncuation of words struggled till age of 10! That's why I was diagnosed as HFA ..but I noticed big differences between me and the other HFAs , the classic HFAs, for instance I do have narrow obssessions but never stared on something for hours , I do have stimming but never were as much as yours , I did have very poor eye contacts but I do make eye contacts especially with paretns ......so who's more autistic? you or me? Of course you! Damn, I am sure that I am very introvert but highly suspect that I am even on spectrum.
in fact the diagnosting criteria in Lebanon is different , they don't diagnose based on speech delay alone but more on the severity of symptoms (regarldess of speech delay) in such order :
LFA(very severe autistic symptoms) ----> MFA (severe autistic symptoms) ------> HFA (autistic symptoms).
That's autism here.
On some sites , they say that AS = very very HFA and others say that AS = HFA without speech delay, wtf? It's either this or that.
Funny, that when I consulted online a British psychiatric about my doubts , she told me the weirdest answer:
" | Quote: | Dear Samer,
Thank you for contacting me and telling me your story. You are obviously an intelligent young man with talent in maths, computer studies and sciences.
There is no specific medical test or scan that gives a diagnosis for autism spectrum disorders.
From your story I do think it is likely that you are on the autism spectrum and are now most like a young person with Asperger syndrome. If you had been assessed when first at school you would probably have been described as 'high functioning autism' (HFA), as your language development was delayed. However when children's language develops as well as yours has done we find they are similar to young people with Asperger syndrome, so I think Asperger syndrome is probably the right description for you now. Young people with Asperger syndrome often have many talents such as being logical, honest and direct with their opinion, a trustworthy friend and knowledgeable in their areas of interest. Also you will find if you read about Asperger syndrome you will definately not have all the features described in this group of people. However you may find it helpful to read about Aperger syndrome and use some of the very good websites of Tony Attwood or Carol Gray.
Best wishes ***********
, |
"
I think that the AS diagnosis is very misleading and subjective, it leads to misdiagnosis of both very introvert NTs and real Autistics. |
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Danielismyname
Troglodyte descended
Joined: Apr 03, 2007
Posts: 5926
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:40 am Post subject: |
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I think you're using opinions of people online to base your view of what Asperger's is, and this is wrought with error as they're far too subjective. There's also varying opinions amongst professionals, but most are of a similar mindset.
It's best to go back and read Autistic Psychopathy from Hans himself; he doesn't paint a good picture, even if he was trying his best to point out some positives he saw [so that the Nazi Regime didn't gas the children with AS], most of it is negative and "severe". |
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Jenk
Deinonychus
Joined: Jul 02, 2008
Posts: 325
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| Danielismyname wrote: | | Daniel can't wait till the label "Asperger's" is struck down. |
The days of ASD approach.
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BelindatheNobody
Sea Gull
Joined: Mar 24, 2008
Age: 18
Posts: 205
Location: Westfield
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| LePetitPrince wrote: | | BelindatheNobody wrote: | | LePetitPrince wrote: | Dear BelindatheNobody, most Psychiatrics consider that the only difference between AS and Autism is speech delay , I think that the difference is much more than that and it's not necessarly just speech delay.
If you can't look at you own mother 99% of times , having great difficulties in having jobs , if you stare on a specific object for hours ,if you can't talk to strangers AT all , infinite stimming ....then that means one thing: You are a misdiagnosed classic HF autie! There's no other way to explain it ...the inexistance of speech delay doesn't automatically means that you are aspie, not at all. You fit the classic autism description 100% and not asperger , your exprience is the same smilair experience by classic auties and not exactly of those with asperger, Period.
Psychiatry is so subjective and so that's why it's so biased. |
The only difference is speech delay, and also supossidly something about "lack of self-care skills", which no one ever explains properly; and which I also find doesn't make sense. Seen pleantly of aspies around with varying degrees of this "lack of self-care skills".
*Shrug* Maybe I am misdiagnosed. It is a possibility. |
BelindatheNobody,
I DID have a speech delay , I only said 1 to 2 words at age of 3 and half and talked my first sentence at age of 5 , my proncuation of words struggled till age of 10! That's why I was diagnosed as HFA ..but I noticed big differences between me and the other HFAs , the classic HFAs, for instance I do have narrow obssessions but never stared on something for hours , I do have stimming but never were as much as yours , I did have very poor eye contacts but I do make eye contacts especially with paretns ......so who's more autistic? you or me? Of course you! Damn, I am sure that I am very introvert but highly suspect that I am even on spectrum.
in fact the diagnosting criteria in Lebanon is different , they don't diagnose based on speech delay alone but more on the severity of symptoms (regarldess of speech delay) in such order :
LFA(very severe autistic symptoms) ----> MFA (severe autistic symptoms) ------> HFA (autistic symptoms).
That's autism here.
On some sites , they say that AS = very very HFA and others say that AS = HFA without speech delay, wtf? It's either this or that.
Funny, that when I consulted online a British psychiatric about my doubts , she told me the weirdest answer:
" | Quote: | Dear Samer,
Thank you for contacting me and telling me your story. You are obviously an intelligent young man with talent in maths, computer studies and sciences.
There is no specific medical test or scan that gives a diagnosis for autism spectrum disorders.
From your story I do think it is likely that you are on the autism spectrum and are now most like a young person with Asperger syndrome. If you had been assessed when first at school you would probably have been described as 'high functioning autism' (HFA), as your language development was delayed. However when children's language develops as well as yours has done we find they are similar to young people with Asperger syndrome, so I think Asperger syndrome is probably the right description for you now. Young people with Asperger syndrome often have many talents such as being logical, honest and direct with their opinion, a trustworthy friend and knowledgeable in their areas of interest. Also you will find if you read about Asperger syndrome you will definately not have all the features described in this group of people. However you may find it helpful to read about Aperger syndrome and use some of the very good websites of Tony Attwood or Carol Gray.
Best wishes ***********
, |
"
I think that the AS diagnosis is very misleading and subjective, it leads to misdiagnosis of both very introvert NTs and real Autistics. |
Well, that's why it's called a spectrum, and I find the specific (<-- lol, specific is one of the words I struggle with. I can rarely get that one right. Closest I get is "pacific", like the ocean.  ) labels (Low-functioning, moderate-functioning [I've never even seen anyone use that one anywhere off of these forums.], high-functioning, aspergers.) to be... well, on the stupid side. Functioning "level", in most, tends to change all over one's life, for one thing.
I, for one:
Between babyhood and my teen years:
A short period of time in my childhood where I was almost "normal". Almost.
Admitidly, it didn't last long though. XD And my clinical depression kicked in around the age of seven.
As for the whole "more autistic" thing: I don't think that can even be measured, really...
_________________
Put me to sleep evil angel,
Open your wings evil angel.
Self reflections:
Nobody. Slytherin. Aspie. |
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Vexcalibur
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Posts: 627
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:06 am Post subject: |
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You know what this theory was lacking? An statement at the end saying:
"Cuz everyone knows vaccines and cow milk cause autism"
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Mankind is not evil; itīs just misinformed ~ Charles Xavier |
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Sora
Love all, trust a few
Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Age: 20
Posts: 2854
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:10 am Post subject: Re: Taboo thread #1: A possible theory about the nature of A |
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| LePetitPrince wrote: |
Like in the case of ADHD , the Psychiatric industry started to promote that diagnosis with biased brain studies on kids who are already on drugs and Molecular Psychiatry promoted unclear genetic studies every while showing how Asperger is related to many genes and environmental factors (if it's a personality type then It's surely related to many genes and environmental factors , any personality type is partly genetic and can somehow be INHERITED too.). The asperger's symptoms can all be considered as normal behavioral traits like obsession and lack of empathy (quirky but normal) in which almost everyone in the world has at least one or two of such traits. |
Not again this AD(H)D remark... That's why people who cannot manage to cook themselves a meal because they can't for their lives maintain the focus needed to do this are not ADHD.... but what? Just acting up? Doing it on purpose? Trying to be funny when running around in PJs all day - going to school, to work like that?
It's kinda impairing if you can't eat or can't dress because you can't manage to focus on it.
| LePetitPrince wrote: | | For that reason, categorization of people was encouraged by Nazi Germany and those different people and nonsocial introvert people had to be labeled in order to be recognized. |
I'm not introverted even, I am, by both means extroverted - drawing energy from others and seeking ought people - and have AS. I know there's a turn towards trying to explain AS away as introverted personality - and I do get into discussions about that when I talk to some people with AS particularly in my country, sometimes turning into fights because somehow I'm taken as real bad for denying that AS = introverted personalities that are not impaired.
AS is not a personality type. Or else classical would be a personality type too to my mind.
A need for routines doesn't mean you enjoy, like or want the routines - or even do things that support these routines.
You can be AS/HFA/LFA/etc and seek out other people.
I'm not having speech issues, routines, reptetive actions, sensory issues because of my personality.
I can't even begin to understand how not liking my routines means I cannot be autistic in any way despite that have these routines and need them to function. I even at first thought I had none... because I was told, by some others with AS, that you like them... I didn't like them, so I was convinced I had none, sure. Until the ASD specialist asked me how I spent my days and all.
I side with professionals who say to interpret AS like some people do - as likings, ideals, wants - is totally incorrect and morbidly amusing.
| LePetitPrince wrote: |
# attractive, alert and intelligent appearance. |
How is it easy to spot autism in someone who looks like that to common standards? That's how 'normal' people look like.
| LePetitPrince wrote: | | Classic auties have those features: |
I am diagnosed as having Asperger's, I have most of these symptoms and where I live, I am even described as utmost HF. Perceptions must differ enormously throughout the world then.
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The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. Terry Pratchett |
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LePetitPrince
Feminist activist O_o
Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Age: 26
Posts: 3458
Location: Beirut , Lebanon
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I keep hearing that in view of this diagnostic insanity, the next revision of the DSM will eliminate Asperger syndrome altogether, and place Rhett's Syndrome and Childhood Disintegrative Disorder on a different axis so that the autism spectrum will at last be as it always should have been, identifying only low, mid-range and high-functioning autism |
.
that's an interesting article:
http://www.linds.net/asperger.html |
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anbuend
Oak-Type Autie
Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 3302
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| Spokane_Girl wrote: | | I thought classic autism was different than regular autism. |
No, they mean the same thing. It's a synonym for "autistic disorder", but some people (usually either badly misinformed, or politically motivated) insist it means something a lot more specific. The same people often refer to it as "Kanner's autism", which they then proceed to define as something that almost none of Kanner's patients would have fit, because they have either not read Kanner's papers, or not read them closely enough to see how wrong they are.
I have a friend who whenever he hears "classical autistic," insists on referring to himself as a "Baroque autistic" (and knowing him, it fits  ).
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