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Namiko
snape-o-doodle
Joined: Jun 14, 2005
Posts: 2439
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 Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:57 am Post subject: |
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| Thagomizer wrote: | My post was in response to Namiko's statement of:
| Quote: | | Myself being a Christian, I would find it very difficult to write something from an atheistic standpoint. |
I found this odd and wanted her to clarify. As symbolic beings, everything we express through our use of language, whether we like it or not, will reveal much of what we think and who we are. If Namiko is a Christian, then how can anything she writes be "from an atheistic standpoint"? |
Sorry I haven't had time to reply sooner. I said "would find it very difficult". I have actually never been able to write something from an atheistic standpoint (I have a fictional character who is atheistic, however) because I am a Christian. I have been able to write stuff that is not directly Christian, but has Christian moral values and beliefs.
And I am not saying that I absolutely could not write something from an atheistic standpoint. It would not be quite impossible, though I would have to force myself to completely think in a different way (a way that I do not necessarily agree with) in order to write from this perspective.
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Astarael
Numquam obliuiscor..
Joined: Aug 07, 2005
Posts: 1293
Location: Western Australia
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:13 am Post subject: |
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Just to be different, I'm not religious, and when I read the chronicles I read them simply as they were without drawing them towards any religion. Even if they do relate to religion they don't necessarily need to be read as religious books, I found them very entertaining without knowing that they drew so strongly on Christian beliefs. I still love them and ignore the references he makes to religion, it can still be read simply as a story even though alot of people say that the Christian influence really stands out.
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Thagomizer
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 06, 2005
Posts: 752
Location: MA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I still love them and ignore the references he makes to religion, it can still be read simply as a story even though alot of people say that the Christian influence really stands out. |
It does. It's impossible to read them without noticing the Christian allegory. This neither adds nor detracts from the quality or experience, but it's definitely worth noting if you are studying it as literature and want to take out some subtext or theme to appreciate in its full richness.
| Quote: | Sorry I haven't had time to reply sooner. I said "would find it very difficult". I have actually never been able to write something from an atheistic standpoint (I have a fictional character who is atheistic, however) because I am a Christian. I have been able to write stuff that is not directly Christian, but has Christian moral values and beliefs.
And I am not saying that I absolutely could not write something from an atheistic standpoint. It would not be quite impossible, though I would have to force myself to completely think in a different way (a way that I do not necessarily agree with) in order to write from this perspective. |
Thank you for replying. To this I can only add that even you are writing about an atheist character, you are still not an atheist yourself, and that characters inhabits a world which you will likely use to represent the one you inhabit--where a god exists. That's why I said that even if you write about atheistic characters, you are still not writing from an atheistic standpoint.
However, attempting to write about a character who has a completely different perspetive from your own can be difficult, but fun. I am usually able to do this, but I must find a manner in which I do relate to them. Characters are, after all, sometimes tools for exploring ourselves in fiction. All of my stories are "religious" in the sense that these characters are usually asking questions about themselves of ultimate importance. Therefore, nothing I write is atheistic, even if the story doesn't appear to have anything to do with religion (and they usually don't).
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danlo
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 12, 2005
Posts: 1069
Location: Western Australia
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Thagomizer wrote: | | It does. It's impossible to read them without noticing the Christian allegory. This neither adds nor detracts from the quality or experience, but it's definitely worth noting if you are studying it as literature and want to take out some subtext or theme to appreciate in its full richness. |
Is a kid really going to notice the Christian allegories Lewis makes in the Chronicles? My mother, a devout Seventh Day Adventist, banned his books in our house. I still read them though, but it was always just a book. Who in their right mind, when reading a book, bothers to analyse every event and compares it against things it might be a representation of? Worth noting if you're doing it as an English assignment, but hell, it's simply a good read. |
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AbominableSnoCone
Cybernetic Vampiric Werewolf Ninja
Joined: Jun 16, 2005
Age: 25
Posts: 1675
Location: Jersey
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Thagomizer wrote: | | All of my stories are "religious" in the sense that these characters are usually asking questions about themselves of ultimate importance. |
Hmm? Wouldn't that make them philosophical stories? Or introspective stories? I think of religion as being about feelings of spiritual ecstasy, ritual/worship, supernatural beings, etc. Why do you think your stories are 'religious' as opposed to 'introspective'?
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Thagomizer
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 06, 2005
Posts: 752
Location: MA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Is a kid really going to notice the Christian allegories Lewis makes in the Chronicles? My mother, a devout Seventh Day Adventist, banned his books in our house. I still read them though, but it was always just a book. Who in their right mind, when reading a book, bothers to analyse every event and compares it against things it might be a representation of? Worth noting if you're doing it as an English assignment, but hell, it's simply a good read. |
Well, I guess that's why I majored in English. Analyzing art and literature is primarily the way I enjoy it. 
But I agree that kids aren't likely to notice or care much about the Christian allegory. It's more obvious to adults.
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"And lo, the beast looked upon the face of beauty. And beauty stayed his hand. And from that day on, he was as one dead."
Last edited by Thagomizer on Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Thagomizer
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 06, 2005
Posts: 752
Location: MA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:57 am Post subject: |
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| AbominableSnoCone wrote: | | Thagomizer wrote: | | All of my stories are "religious" in the sense that these characters are usually asking questions about themselves of ultimate importance. |
Hmm? Wouldn't that make them philosophical stories? Or introspective stories? I think of religion as being about feelings of spiritual ecstasy, ritual/worship, supernatural beings, etc. Why do you think your stories are 'religious' as opposed to 'introspective'? |
Sorry, dude. It seems I posted my last reply only one minute after you posted yours. When I returned to this thread to tell everyone about the movie itself, I noticed your post here.
To answer your question, stories involving introspection are psychological, not necessarily religious. And philosophical stories aren't necessarily religious either. They are not the same thing. The search for these ultimate truths and the absence of their meaning one feels is said to be a void that only religion can fill. They are almost all religious by nature simply because they are concerned with the issue, whether they admit to it or not.
However, religion isn't just ritual, and myth, but the meanings behind these practices, and how we can apply them to our own lives in the purest form. Religious and mytholigical truths are powerful, timeless, and universal. It is also in the capturing of the godly and the beautiful through the eye of an artist. It is not through subject matter but the prespective of the author that makes the story religious. Writing them also helped me understand the problem of pain and allowed me a glimpse into the mind of God. Writing itself is almost a religious experience because it requires the utter conviction of the writer, so much that they will transform themselves into whatever they write, and dedicate their lives to perfection of the craft.
I don't think I could have written any of my stories in quite the same way if I were an atheist.
Athens is heaven. The Fifth Wheel is hell. From Without, Writing Fiction, A Produce Clerk, and The Hive are each about the eternal spiritual struggle on earth.
In Parallax was the only story I'd written where I not only didn't put my heart and soul into it, but worked very hard to remove every ounce of it, so it became a black hole of my personality. Fittingly, then, it depicts a godless universe. Perhaps not coincidentally, it is the only story I've written that everyone hated. And so did I.
You can read them here. Please note, however, that many of them are old and require extensive re-editing. The formatting is screwed up too.
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"And lo, the beast looked upon the face of beauty. And beauty stayed his hand. And from that day on, he was as one dead." |
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Thagomizer
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 06, 2005
Posts: 752
Location: MA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 1:15 am Post subject: |
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Anyway, I saw the movie tonight and loved it. Since it's been a long time since I've read any of the books I don't have too much to say about it now, but I highly recomend it.
I don't understand what all the fuss was about, and why people are bringing up The Passion of the Christ in reference to this film. Other than the subject of Christianity, it has nothing whatsoever to do with Narnia. Comparing Narnia to Lord of the Rings is appropriate, however, but their fundamental differences (among two writers who were friends and both took Christianity seriously, no less) are worth noting.
Toodles.
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"And lo, the beast looked upon the face of beauty. And beauty stayed his hand. And from that day on, he was as one dead." |
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Namiko
snape-o-doodle
Joined: Jun 14, 2005
Posts: 2439
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, why the heck do people compare The Passion of the Christ with Narnia??? That just doesn't make sense because The Passion was a movie that was based on some guy's interpretation of the Bible, whereas Narnia is a fictional story. But I see how someone could compare Narnia with LotR, even though the latter is obviously not an allegory.
Thagomizer, I just had one quick question, but would you mind clarifying symbolism behind the lamp post for me? I've always thought that it's because Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth and the Light", but it's kind of confusing. Or anyone else... thoughts?
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Thagomizer
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 06, 2005
Posts: 752
Location: MA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 12:52 am Post subject: |
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Actually, Narnia is another guy's interpretation of the Bible as well, just told as a fantasy parable. But still, the point of The Passion of the Christ was to make Jesus' suffering real. That's the opposite approach of C. S. Lewis. My only guess as to why people equate it with the Passion is simply because it is another movie obviously built around Christian ideaology, which makes people about as uncomfortable. I understand less those people who say "Narnia is just a good fantasy story, minus all the religious stuff." That would make about as much sense as saying the New Testament gospels are a good story if we ignore all that religious stuff. Well, I suppose Joseph Campbell could get away with it, but not too many others. I think the Christian overtones make the story of Narnia that much more powerful. So many plot points make allegorical sense, but not storytelling sense otherwise.
I suppose that's part of the reason Tolkien liked Narnia far less than Lewis liked Tolkien's worlds. Now as for Lord of the Rings, both were written by men who took Christianity seriously and sought to reflect it in their writing. In Narnia, the Christian overtones are blatantly obvious, while in LoTR they're much more subtle.
Now as for that lamp post, I'm not sure what it symbolizes. It seems quite out of place with the rest of Narnia. I don't think it signifies Jesus' statements of being the light, way, truth etc. because it is Aslan who is seen to represent Jesus in the story. As the lamppost points the way back into their known world, I suppose it represents one tiny slice of that normalcy that marks the barrier. The Kings and Queens of Narnia have acepted their roles so thuroughly that they don't even recognize it as such when they first see it. Perhaps it's a reminder.
Here's a link I found on it, but I'm not sure it explains much: http://www.crvineyard.org/LampPost.htm
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"And lo, the beast looked upon the face of beauty. And beauty stayed his hand. And from that day on, he was as one dead." |
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jennyfreckles
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Jul 22, 2005
Posts: 57
Location: scotland
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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these are childrens books for goodness sake! and most books and films are based on a good versus evil theme anyway. harry potter books are banned from a lot of places for religious reasons because of the magic theme. could the same not be said for these stories as they have magical characters? and i have read the narnia books when i was a child but was far too young to find any religious content in them.  |
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