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elizadoo Emu Egg


Joined: Nov 02, 2008 Posts: 2
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Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:15 pm Post subject: New and confused...does this sound like Asperger's? |
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Hello, all. I am a mom of a teen (16) girl. We always knew she was different and I am going to ask you all, if, in your opinions, Asperger's sounds "probable."
As a baby she was happy and smiling, very "good." Was fascinated with ceiling fans. Had (and still has) some immune system issues (allergies to food proteins, of all things, which she outgrew). Was very loving and cuddly, walked at about 1 but didn't talk until 3 . Was intensely fearful of strangers, would run and hide.
As a toddler/primary schooler she never seemed to socialize well. Whenever you see a group picture of her she is apart, staring up at the ceiling or off in another direction. At recess she would wander around the playground by herself. Would wake up in the middle of the night, alert, and would line up her My Little Ponies in long, snaking lines throughout the house, down the stairs, etc. Was reading at an early age, very good student. Never pointed at things--like a bug on the wall--but would insist it is "right there, mommy, look, right in front of you" as if I had ESP; it would take me a while to see what she was talking about.
Tested at school when 7 and dx'd gifted. Socialized "ok" with children but just didn't quite fit in. As a parent I observed that her "timing" seemed to be off. Also, she would stand back and observe, not participate, didn't know how and when to join in. Very creative and lived in a semi-make believe world. She would make friends (because she's creative) easily but never be able to keep them. Was subject to frequent infections, more than usual child. In school she started to have problems with certain types of learning: she didn't do well watching videos, or listening to certain types of voices (she would tune them out). So her teachers allowed her to go to the library (quiet) where she would read the textbook while the rest of the kids listened to the teacher/video. She would come back to the classroom and test with the other children and make an A. Showed no desire to ride a bike and when she finally did (age , she was perfectly happy to keep the training wheels on, We (parents) were worried because although she could ride the bike OK she was always crashing into walls and fences, her attention waned and she would dreamily gaze off into another direction, all the while heading straight into a parked car or a fence. She had a real problem learning how to fold origami in a class, she gave up in tears, she couldn't do what everyone else was doing.
By middle school she was aware that she was different and tried very hard to "belong". Put into a smaller group of "gifted" kids where she functioned better but she was average B student, too dreamy. Started to complain that certain loud noises bothered her, so on the schoolbus, for example, she wore earplugs. Was more conscious of her appearance (wanted to be like the other kids) and put an effort into dressing to fit in. She looked completely normal but long-term unable to maintain any close friendships. Was terrible with telephone converations and gossiping like the other girls, but because she smiled a lot (at her mother's urging) she "got by." Very outgoing and talkative--when the conversation was about something SHE was interested in. Preferred to be home as opposed to going out and socializing; would leave social functions (sleepovers, dances) early because they were "boring" or "too noisy" . Showed a tendency to relate better to adults than children. She wasn't very good at sports but is a great rhythmic dancer--belly dance, tap dance, Latin and ethnic dances, she could do them all.
In high school, at 14, became very popular due to her appearance, "All-American cheerleader type" and the ability to "joke around." However, the social pressure of being popular seemed to be too much for her, she couldn't understand the social nuances and innuendos, when to be serious and when to clown around, etc. and she began to isolate. Alienated all her aquaintances. Developed an eating disorder and depression. Now, a year later and coming out of the depression--small dose of Prozac daily and psychotherapy--we (parents) see that it might all be due to Asperger's. She has been moved to a smaller, self-paced classroom setting where she excels, she can sit at a computer and do her work online, listen to her iPod and tune out other distractions. At lunch she will sit with a group but "zone out" when the conversation becomes boring and then she will tune in 5 minutes later, her peers notice her lack of attention and disinterest. Has tried alcohol and drugs (alone) to see what other kids are raving about, but she is anti-drugs/alcohol, though she will tell others that she uses them, just to "fit in". She has some OCD issues, especially with her body, looks in mirrors a lot, fixates on her body, thinks people don't like her becuase she's "fat" (she's not, she's fine).
D volunteers as a teaching assistant in an elementary school (part-time) and says she prefers the little kids, they say exactly what they mean. She says she doesn't understand teens talking, they say one thing and mean another, there are too many "codes" she doesn't understand. To her, everything has hidden messages. Yet she is an extremely good writer and a critical reader.
Last night, after a trip to the mall, she asked me why the sales clerk (a cute young man) kept smiling and talking to her; was he flirting or just being polite? She is constantly confused about whether a boy is flirting with her or just conversing. She is extremely attractive (too much for her own good) and attracts a lot of male attention. Problem is, she takes what they say too literally. She has a problem with girls, too, she doesn't understand exactly how to relate to them. She can join a goup easily but she can't continue in the group, she is sensitive to criticism and doesn't pick up on the sarcasm--though she tries to emulate their sarcasm, she doesn't do it the same way and it comes off all wrong. Has little empathy (except for small children) but I (mom) have taught her to pretend, when a friend is sick to txt messge them and ask how they are, so sorry, type of thing. D is very blunt and will tell someone to his/her face when they are being "boring". Some days I have to remind her to brush her hair or take a shower. Because she is erratic in her appearance, some days looking completely polished and other days like she just rolled out of bed, I have learned that it works best to have her pick out her wardrobe the night before, so it is all planned in advance. So much work on my part!
If she is sitting around with a group of teens, say, ages 16, 17, 18, and they are discussing something mundane (like an upcoming concert), she will interupt the conversation with an off-the-wall statement like: "when I grow up I am going to own a big house in Africa and keep peacocks." I, her mom, have to explain to her why such statements are not socially acceptable, and she doesn't always "get it", she thinks if it's interesting to her, then everyone should like it. Plus, she doesn't see that teens don't say "when I grow up"--little children say that. Has tremendous dreams for herself--some are realistic, beause she's so talented; others are just plain crazy. Likes to organize crayons according to color, she says it calms her down.
Also, now she is learning to drive and she is actually a good driver because she follows the rules. However, in a parking lot she will have problems finding a spot to park in if there are too many available, she straddles the lines and can't figure out how to park in the middle of a space. She told me yesterday that it confuses her when there are too many choices. She was able to pull into a single spot (between 2 cars) very easily, however.
We travel extensively all over the world and D loves it, which is surprising. Our guess is that it is because it is a) intellectually stimulating and b) she does well talking to adults about actual things--eg places she's been, cultures she has observed, etc. She can converse "normally" with adults because the topics are clear-cut and factual.
There, I am done. Any feedback? Thank you so much, I would like to broach her psychologist with this, because she is working on why D can't keep friends, but her psych is new to her (just 1 month old) and doesn't have a clear history. |
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Exile Toucan


Joined: Nov 02, 2008 Age: 51 Posts: 265
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Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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As many of the folks here are fond of saying, there is no substitute for a genuine DX.
Based solely on the anecdotal stuff you provided (pretty extensive), seems like it's a slam dunk. If you reverse the gender, it's an echo of my own early life. Uncannily so.
Not a gambler at all, but I'd bet unhesitatingly that a LOT of others here on this site would agree. |
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kip Eternally Indisposed...


Joined: Mar 14, 2007 Age: 22 Posts: 1101 Location: Las Vegas NV USA
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Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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Keep the gender and it sounds just like me.
An official DX can be a good or bad thing. Those dreams of hers will be a good start. If she wants to work anything goverment, the DX will harm more than help. (Stupid govt)
But, if she's going to do something with a degree, then it may actually help, because she could get extra consideration in class, like being able to record notes, use an ipod... all that stuff.
But it sounds like you read the DSM and added an inital to make it a person. You'd have to get a darn quack to not at least consider the possibility. _________________ Every time you think you've made it idiot proof, someone comes along and invents a better idiot.
…the end of our exploring, will be to arrive where we started, and know the place for the first time. - T.S. Eliot |
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Zonder Give me a minute, I'm thinking.


Joined: Feb 23, 2008 Posts: 1168 Location: Sitting on my sofa.
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Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't personally suggest a particular diagnosis for your daughter, but I can say that different professionals are likely do give you different opinions based on their expertise and experience.
Those with Autism Spectrum expertise might see Asperger's, High-Functioning Autism, or Pervasive Developmental Disorder - Not Otherwise Specified.
Those more familiar with Intellectually Gifted might say that hers are characteristics of intellectual giftedness and need to be understood as such (which is a much nicer label than autism). Others suggest that there is such an overlap between Asperger's and high IQ that there is very likely a connection.
Because of her late speaking, someone else might say she fits the "Einstein Syndrome," an unofficial label that is based on the developmental similarities of bright children who talk late. I personally seem to fit the Einstein Syndrome characteristics, and they are very similar to Asperger's Syndrome, but my communication as an adult is too good to receive an official Asperger's diagnosis.
Do an internet search on any of these terms (i.e. gifted & asperger) and you will find a lot of information, but it is very hard to make sense of it, unless you find a professional who is familiar with diagnosing those with the specific characteristics of your daughter, such as her high-IQ, as well as her age and possible autism spectrum traits. If you really feel the need for a diagnosis, you'll need to shop around for some who is qualified to evaluate the specifics of your daughter.
Z |
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DW_a_mom Phoenix


Joined: Feb 23, 2008 Posts: 3194 Location: Northern California
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Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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One thing to remember is that autism/aspergers is a spectrum, each person with AS is different, and even when a professional diagnosis it is virtually impossible to ever "know" what applies. As a parent, I am fond of saying that the label is only as good as what it can get you, and if applying the label helps you parent and understand your daughter better, go for it. If it doesn't, discard it.
Clearly your daughter could use help with pragmatic speech and social skills. A referral to a speech specialist can help with these areas. Given my son's amazing vocabulary and ability to speak extensively without taking a breath, I would never have thought he could get much from speech therapy and, yet, it's probably been the single most beneficial service he's received. If you can get a tentative diagnosis from the school, or a formal one outside the school, you can probably obtain speech therapy for your daughter through the school.
A surprisingly high percentage of AS seem to love to travel. My son is definitely one of them, and my father (who I believe was AS) was as well. We had a discussion about this in another forum, because it does seem out of place. One idea was that when you are in a completely different country no one expects you to know the social norms, so you are freed of that liability. The interest in history and geography, etc., also come into play.
Best of luck to both of you. AS is a condition with gifts that can more than offset the burdens. It's a matter of learning to channel and adapt. It takes extra effort from you as a parent, but the payoff will be huge. _________________ Avatar copyright DW's Studio |
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2ukenkerl Phoenix


Joined: Jul 20, 2007 Posts: 6392
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Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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elizadoo,
I have NO doubt she is on the spectrum, and would probably squeak by with an AS diagnosis on the most strict interpretation. It is a shame about having to remind her about showering. And YEAH, it is a pity that the fear of rejection, laws, and societal constraints make it harder for a guy to come out and just say how he feels.  |
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elizadoo Emu Egg


Joined: Nov 02, 2008 Posts: 2
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Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| DW_a_mom wrote: | | As a parent, I am fond of saying that the label is only as good as what it can get you, and if applying the label helps you parent and understand your daughter better, go for it. If it doesn't, discard it. |
We, the parents, are looking for a "label" so we can take the next step: finding a solution. For so long our daughter knew she was different, but she could get by in the lower grades of school (e.g. students were assigned lunch tables to sit at). However, now she is in high school and she has been thrown into the dating/clique-by-choice situation, she realizes there is a definite need to improve her social skills. For the past year she has known something is wrong, but because she couldn't figure it out, she went into a depression and OCD (Anorexic) tailspin. Now coming out of the depression, she is truly concerned about why she can't keep friends.
We know that if there is a diagnosis/label, she will feel relieved, and when she is given the appropriate tools to help her improve she will put an intensity into it like she does other projects she wants to pursue.
D's absolute biggest hurdle is not being able to understand social nuances. I (mom) have taught her all the little things that lubricate the wheels of socializing--hello, nice seeing you, would you care for a piece of gum {offer gum}, but I cannot be in the room with her 100% of the time to show her when to back off, when to lapse into small talk, etc. Here at home with us we tolerate her quirks and she acts fairly noRmal, but put her out in the High School World--a world of deceit, intrigue, rumors, and innuendos--and she is a lost soul. |
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Zonder Give me a minute, I'm thinking.


Joined: Feb 23, 2008 Posts: 1168 Location: Sitting on my sofa.
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Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| elizadoo wrote: | We, the parents, are looking for a "label" so we can take the next step: finding a solution.
We know that if there is a diagnosis/label, she will feel relieved, and when she is given the appropriate tools to help her improve she will put an intensity into it like she does other projects she wants to pursue. |
I heartily agree that, for the individual, understanding why we are the way we are is the first step to having a positive approach to living our lives. It sounds like your daughter is well balanced but frustrated with the things that don't come so easily to her.
The following book (that is currently available) might be helpful in approaching her diagnosis as it covers both Autism Spectrum and Anxiety disorders and helps to make sense out of them.
Z
James Webb et. al.
Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnoses of Gifted Children and Adults |
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DW_a_mom Phoenix


Joined: Feb 23, 2008 Posts: 3194 Location: Northern California
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Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| elizadoo wrote: |
We know that if there is a diagnosis/label, she will feel relieved, and when she is given the appropriate tools to help her improve she will put an intensity into it like she does other projects she wants to pursue.
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It helped my son a lot at age 7 to know there was a name for how he was different, and also to know that he is perfectly normal for those whose brains are wired the way his is. He loves knowing about famous people who face some of the same challenges, and he has latched onto the gifts from his AS with full force.
Some teens like knowing and others don't want the label. It's a touchy time. But, long run, knowing is better. _________________ Avatar copyright DW's Studio |
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ster Phoenix


Joined: Sep 24, 2005 Posts: 2727 Location: new england
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Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:31 am Post subject: |
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i will warn you that you may not get the dx that you hope for.....our daughter sounds so much like yours- we were told that daughter was far too social to be AS ( and , yes, she has the same social issues you talk about).
we still believe she has AS. Unfortunately, without the AS dx she only gets accomodations for her anxiety. |
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chovhani Hummingbird


Joined: Nov 14, 2008 Posts: 20
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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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It's crazy but it's harder for a girl to get a formal AS diagnosis. Also, like the previous reply, our son's diagnosis intially was iffy because "he's too nice". He had terrible social problems but he tried so hard, bless him, that he almost messed up his diagnosis. Fortunately he was textbook other than his "niceness". In other words if you do a sterling job of teaching your Aspie to be polite you make things harder for yourself. Oy.
I agree with the comments that the diagnosis is a mixed blessing. We put it off for a long time trying to avoid labelling, but the school stepped in and refused to have him back until he'd been assessed because he was so hard to handle. We believe they were hoping for an ADHD diagnosis so he could be drugged. Ha! Didn't work! What they got was a letter saying effectively: Asperger's Syndrome, suck it up.
But now he's in high school it is INVALUABLE for getting him the extra support he needs, and now he has an EA. I still have to give teachers little tips all the time (e.g. for pity's sake don't give him multiple choice questions), but just knowing what they are dealing with, even if they often admit to not knowing how to deal with it, makes all the difference.
Last edited by chovhani on Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mysterious_misfit Phoenix


Joined: Apr 25, 2008 Age: 28 Posts: 522
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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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I read about half the first post and came to the part where she looks in mirrors a lot. When I was going through adolescence, my face changed a lot very suddenly. I didn't totally recognize myself in the mirror, so I spend a lot of time in front of the mirror. I was kind of freaked out. (That's what I look like???) I believe I have some issues with face-blindness.
And yeah, sounds like your DD is likely Aspie. |
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Tim_Tex Bunnies!!!


Joined: Jul 03, 2004 Age: 29 Posts: 30814 Location: To Be Determined
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Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:05 am Post subject: Re: New and confused...does this sound like Asperger's? |
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| elizadoo wrote: | Hello, all. I am a mom of a teen (16) girl. We always knew she was different and I am going to ask you all, if, in your opinions, Asperger's sounds "probable."
As a baby she was happy and smiling, very "good." Was fascinated with ceiling fans. Had (and still has) some immune system issues (allergies to food proteins, of all things, which she outgrew). Was very loving and cuddly, walked at about 1 but didn't talk until 3 . Was intensely fearful of strangers, would run and hide.
As a toddler/primary schooler she never seemed to socialize well. Whenever you see a group picture of her she is apart, staring up at the ceiling or off in another direction. At recess she would wander around the playground by herself. Would wake up in the middle of the night, alert, and would line up her My Little Ponies in long, snaking lines throughout the house, down the stairs, etc. Was reading at an early age, very good student. Never pointed at things--like a bug on the wall--but would insist it is "right there, mommy, look, right in front of you" as if I had ESP; it would take me a while to see what she was talking about.
Tested at school when 7 and dx'd gifted. Socialized "ok" with children but just didn't quite fit in. As a parent I observed that her "timing" seemed to be off. Also, she would stand back and observe, not participate, didn't know how and when to join in. Very creative and lived in a semi-make believe world. She would make friends (because she's creative) easily but never be able to keep them. Was subject to frequent infections, more than usual child. In school she started to have problems with certain types of learning: she didn't do well watching videos, or listening to certain types of voices (she would tune them out). So her teachers allowed her to go to the library (quiet) where she would read the textbook while the rest of the kids listened to the teacher/video. She would come back to the classroom and test with the other children and make an A. Showed no desire to ride a bike and when she finally did (age , she was perfectly happy to keep the training wheels on, We (parents) were worried because although she could ride the bike OK she was always crashing into walls and fences, her attention waned and she would dreamily gaze off into another direction, all the while heading straight into a parked car or a fence. She had a real problem learning how to fold origami in a class, she gave up in tears, she couldn't do what everyone else was doing.
By middle school she was aware that she was different and tried very hard to "belong". Put into a smaller group of "gifted" kids where she functioned better but she was average B student, too dreamy. Started to complain that certain loud noises bothered her, so on the schoolbus, for example, she wore earplugs. Was more conscious of her appearance (wanted to be like the other kids) and put an effort into dressing to fit in. She looked completely normal but long-term unable to maintain any close friendships. Was terrible with telephone converations and gossiping like the other girls, but because she smiled a lot (at her mother's urging) she "got by." Very outgoing and talkative--when the conversation was about something SHE was interested in. Preferred to be home as opposed to going out and socializing; would leave social functions (sleepovers, dances) early because they were "boring" or "too noisy" . Showed a tendency to relate better to adults than children. She wasn't very good at sports but is a great rhythmic dancer--belly dance, tap dance, Latin and ethnic dances, she could do them all.
In high school, at 14, became very popular due to her appearance, "All-American cheerleader type" and the ability to "joke around." However, the social pressure of being popular seemed to be too much for her, she couldn't understand the social nuances and innuendos, when to be serious and when to clown around, etc. and she began to isolate. Alienated all her aquaintances. Developed an eating disorder and depression. Now, a year later and coming out of the depression--small dose of Prozac daily and psychotherapy--we (parents) see that it might all be due to Asperger's. She has been moved to a smaller, self-paced classroom setting where she excels, she can sit at a computer and do her work online, listen to her iPod and tune out other distractions. At lunch she will sit with a group but "zone out" when the conversation becomes boring and then she will tune in 5 minutes later, her peers notice her lack of attention and disinterest. Has tried alcohol and drugs (alone) to see what other kids are raving about, but she is anti-drugs/alcohol, though she will tell others that she uses them, just to "fit in". She has some OCD issues, especially with her body, looks in mirrors a lot, fixates on her body, thinks people don't like her becuase she's "fat" (she's not, she's fine).
D volunteers as a teaching assistant in an elementary school (part-time) and says she prefers the little kids, they say exactly what they mean. She says she doesn't understand teens talking, they say one thing and mean another, there are too many "codes" she doesn't understand. To her, everything has hidden messages. Yet she is an extremely good writer and a critical reader.
Last night, after a trip to the mall, she asked me why the sales clerk (a cute young man) kept smiling and talking to her; was he flirting or just being polite? She is constantly confused about whether a boy is flirting with her or just conversing. She is extremely attractive (too much for her own good) and attracts a lot of male attention. Problem is, she takes what they say too literally. She has a problem with girls, too, she doesn't understand exactly how to relate to them. She can join a goup easily but she can't continue in the group, she is sensitive to criticism and doesn't pick up on the sarcasm--though she tries to emulate their sarcasm, she doesn't do it the same way and it comes off all wrong. Has little empathy (except for small children) but I (mom) have taught her to pretend, when a friend is sick to txt messge them and ask how they are, so sorry, type of thing. D is very blunt and will tell someone to his/her face when they are being "boring". Some days I have to remind her to brush her hair or take a shower. Because she is erratic in her appearance, some days looking completely polished and other days like she just rolled out of bed, I have learned that it works best to have her pick out her wardrobe the night before, so it is all planned in advance. So much work on my part!
If she is sitting around with a group of teens, say, ages 16, 17, 18, and they are discussing something mundane (like an upcoming concert), she will interupt the conversation with an off-the-wall statement like: "when I grow up I am going to own a big house in Africa and keep peacocks." I, her mom, have to explain to her why such statements are not socially acceptable, and she doesn't always "get it", she thinks if it's interesting to her, then everyone should like it. Plus, she doesn't see that teens don't say "when I grow up"--little children say that. Has tremendous dreams for herself--some are realistic, beause she's so talented; others are just plain crazy. Likes to organize crayons according to color, she says it calms her down.
Also, now she is learning to drive and she is actually a good driver because she follows the rules. However, in a parking lot she will have problems finding a spot to park in if there are too many available, she straddles the lines and can't figure out how to park in the middle of a space. She told me yesterday that it confuses her when there are too many choices. She was able to pull into a single spot (between 2 cars) very easily, however.
We travel extensively all over the world and D loves it, which is surprising. Our guess is that it is because it is a) intellectually stimulating and b) she does well talking to adults about actual things--eg places she's been, cultures she has observed, etc. She can converse "normally" with adults because the topics are clear-cut and factual.
There, I am done. Any feedback? Thank you so much, I would like to broach her psychologist with this, because she is working on why D can't keep friends, but her psych is new to her (just 1 month old) and doesn't have a clear history. |
Welcome to WP! _________________ Sometimes I feel very sorry for the Coyote. Sometimes I wish he'd catch him.
If he caught him, there wouldn't be any more Road Runner. You wouldn't like that, would you? |
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Mosse It'll all come down with me...


Joined: Sep 23, 2008 Posts: 1248
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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like HFA or PDD-NOS. _________________ Wavering and fraying,
The end of existence is near.
Will the demon inside,
End it all? |
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