Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 34
Posts: 9770
Location: Dallas, Texas
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 Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:49 pm Post subject: Is this appropriate to say to Jews? |
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Palestinian supporters to Jews: "Go back to the oven." http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,477450,00.html
I just wanted to ask the liberal progressives among us whether this is an "understandable sentiment",
or whatever other euphamistic label(s) you personally choose to put on genocidal hatred.
Should I judge someone harshly for saying the above-quoted phrase to Jews,
or should I "find a way to understand where they're coming from"?
I know it's considered cool to hate Jews (also called "Israel", "Zionists", and other convenienly-political names meaning "Jews"),
but at what point, along the hate continuum, do your brains actually start to function, and you realize that, ya know, maybe there is such a thing as hating Jews too much? Where is the "sweet spot" -- that balanced, golden amount of anti-Semitism?
Put another way, what is the proper amount to hate Jews for being Jews? What do the latest political fads tell us about which level of Jew-hatred is acceptable, or "understandable", and which is perhaps "a bit much"?
Please, someone responding in this thread, be honest about your hatred and tell me why it's okay for Palestinians or their supporters to say to Jews: "Go back to the oven". I dare you, explain to me how this is defensible.
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Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible. |
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Greyhound
Unknown, sir.
Joined: Apr 10, 2008
Posts: 1335
Location: Birmingham, UK
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| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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The Jews they were shouting at had nothing directly to do with the people who were shouting.
The Jews in America did not decide to bomb anyone.
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I don't have Aspergers, I'm just socially inept
Dodgy circuitry! Diagnosed: Tourette syndrome. Suspected: auditory processing disorder, synaesthesia. Also: social and organisation problems. Heteroromantic asexual (though still exploring) |
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Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 34
Posts: 9770
Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Greyhound wrote: | The Jews they were shouting at had nothing directly to do with the people who were shouting.
The Jews in America did not decide to bomb anyone. |
Fail.
Next?
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Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible. |
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Greyhound
Unknown, sir.
Joined: Apr 10, 2008
Posts: 1335
Location: Birmingham, UK
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| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Ragtime wrote: | | Greyhound wrote: | The Jews they were shouting at had nothing directly to do with the people who were shouting.
The Jews in America did not decide to bomb anyone. |
Fail.
Next? |
I misunderstood the article. I've just gone back to watch the video which helped.
What meant though was that the average Jew on the street did not decide to bomb anyone. I'm tired, I have a nasty cold, my brain is not working properly so I misunderstood 
_________________
I don't have Aspergers, I'm just socially inept
Dodgy circuitry! Diagnosed: Tourette syndrome. Suspected: auditory processing disorder, synaesthesia. Also: social and organisation problems. Heteroromantic asexual (though still exploring) |
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Orwell
Outer Party Member
Joined: Aug 09, 2007
Age: 23
Posts: 13715
Location: Room 101
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| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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No, that is not appropriate to say to Jews or to anyone else. My Muslim roommate in college is very anti-Israel and anti-Jew (I can't technically say anti-Semite because Arabs are Semites) and there is definitely an undercurrent of tension between him and some of my Jewish friends.
It is understandable to be extremely angry with people who are bombing you. However, this incident you refer to occurred in Florida, not very far from my university in fact, and I am quite certain that no Jews in that area have been engaged in any campaign of violence against Arab Muslims.
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WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH |
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Everchanging
Deinonychus
Joined: Nov 03, 2007
Posts: 376
Location: In my ivory tower where I don't have to pretend to care what you think any more.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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************************************************** Of course *************************** it's far beyond *************************** what is * acceptable. Seen in *********************** it's undiluted form hatred is ****************************** a very ****************** ugly thing. *************
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*
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So long and thanks for all the pish. |
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Ragtime
Legal Eagle Eye
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Age: 34
Posts: 9770
Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Greyhound wrote: | | Ragtime wrote: | | Greyhound wrote: | The Jews they were shouting at had nothing directly to do with the people who were shouting.
The Jews in America did not decide to bomb anyone. |
Fail.
Next? |
I misunderstood the article. I've just gone back to watch the video which helped.
What meant though was that the average Jew on the street did not decide to bomb anyone. I'm tired, I have a nasty cold, my brain is not working properly so I misunderstood |
Okay, understood. Get some rest.  I just got over a cold myself.
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Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible. |
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ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29324
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Orwell wrote: | No, that is not appropriate to say to Jews or to anyone else. My Muslim roommate in college is very anti-Israel and anti-Jew (I can't technically say anti-Semite because Arabs are Semites) and there is definitely an undercurrent of tension between him and some of my Jewish friends.
It is understandable to be extremely angry with people who are bombing you. However, this incident you refer to occurred in Florida, not very far from my university in fact, and I am quite certain that no Jews in that area have been engaged in any campaign of violence against Arab Muslims. |
The term anti-semite and anti-semitism was coined by the German writer Wilheim Marr as a euphimism for Jew-hatred.
ruveyn |
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MR_BOGAN
Mysterios Dirty Dancer
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
Posts: 2700
Location: The great trailer park in the sky!
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| Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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I think it is bad to hate Jews, even to hate anyone in general.
Anyway we should be protesting against Isralies, Isralies have to take the flake for the actions government they elected. They are collectively responsible for the bombings of the Gaza strip.
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Bea
Sea Gull
Joined: Feb 03, 2008
Posts: 218
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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Ragtime,
I've heard some US citizens say to African-Americans such things as "Go back to Africa," and much worse. That does not mean all US citizens are guilty of such racism. Although conditions have stirred up hatred in many Palestinians, it does not mean all Palestinians are blood-thirsty. I beleive that what the majority of them want is the chance to live a peaceful, productive life, without having to jump through all the oppressive, restrictive hoops the Israeli government has imposed upon their civilization.
And regarding your confusion about being "anti-Israeli policy" as opposed to being "anti-semite" -- what about the fact that while progresive liberals may deplore some of the policies of the US government, we do not have any particular ill will towards our fellow citizens? It's the government's actions we protest, not the people.
Besides, there are millions of Jews who do not live in Israel, and many who belong to such organizations as Tikun and Jewish Voices for Peace. You've heard, of course, about the group of rabbis who go into Palestine in order to plant olive trees to replace the centuries-old olive trees knocked down by the Israeli government? I admire and appreciate the effort those rabbis are making. Here in the US I live peacefully side-by-side with Jews, and frankly it doesn't matter to me whether or not they are Jews (except if I'm making dinner I should know beforehand so I don't make the mistake of serving pork.) That's the only difference. Yet I absolutely deplore they way the Israeli government has time and time again done exactly the wrong thing. I've come to the conclusion they don't want peace. They want domination. The Israeli government wants all the land to belong to Israel, and doesn't want to share it (or the water aquifers) with Muslims.
I believe this stems from a mind-set of fear: people who need to be in absolute control of their environment usually are motivated by fear. It's Hitler's legacy, his evil continues. Rather than healing the soul of Israel, the government's policies just keep making things worse and worse. |
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merrymadscientist
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 19, 2007
Posts: 568
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| In my opinion it is reasonable, although not necessarily right, to hate anyone who has hurt you personally. Hate, being a strong emotion, will naturally lead to unintelligent and offensive comments such as the one you said. What is not reasonable is to hate someone just for who they are (i.e. Jewish in general). This generally implies a low level of intelligence, inability to think for oneself and susceptibility to being indoctrinated. |
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Magnus
Happy Anarchy Day
Joined: Jul 25, 2008
Posts: 2703
Location: Claremont, California
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| Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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Why do people hate the Jews? I always thought they were more smart and funny than other races. They seem to be more liberal and open minded, pretty crafty at system busting, and good with money.
Is that reverse racism? Probably, but I think people hate Jews because they are just jealous. Hitler hated them because they ran the economy by owning most of the businesses, and they held more high level jobs than the German gentiles.
He wanted to get rid of them because they were a threat, not because they were inferior. That was propaganda to dehumanize them. |
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history_of_psychiatry
X
Joined: Dec 23, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 1367
Location: X
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| Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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No, that was not good at all for that woman to have yelled. However, Israel does oppress the Palestinians to a degree even though I don't agree with their tactics. The whole middle east has for thousands of years been, is now, and will always be a war-torn bloodbath.
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LostInEmulation
Penguin
Joined: Feb 11, 2008
Posts: 2219
Location: Ireland, dreaming of Germany
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| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:15 am Post subject: |
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The 'right' level of anti-semitism? If you can read an article about the politics where all places and names are changed to fictional places and names and you come to the same conclusion without being aware of the parallels. Jews are not worse but also not better than any other peoples just for being Jews.
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I am not a native speaker. Please contact me if I made grammatical mistakes in the posting above.
Tekneluru mi'aru mi aji, il'sidekhir'ra min kia. Mi'ki'vasu kynha'het kirki. |
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Sand
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 11852
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| There are all sorts of Jews. Even the Jews can't agree as to who is and who isn't a Jew. Instead of using racist tactics and talking about speaking to the Jews as a single entity, stop your exceedingly stupid sloppy thinking and talk about individuals. |
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