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Aspen
Deinonychus
Joined: Aug 23, 2005
Posts: 345
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 Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:35 pm Post subject: So, my daughter pulled off her shirt at school. Help! |
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My daughter is nine. She has been diagnosed with PDD-NOS by one doctor and with HFA by another doctor, but she is very verbal now and presents much like a person with AS. Anyway, she is in a self-contained classroom most of the time, with a male special education teacher and one male and one female para, with a female para who worked with her last year who usually comes in if they need a substitute. There are other females in the building, like the school psychologist, the principal, the counselor, and another female special education teacher who can come in to help if they are needed.
Yesterday she was in the special education room with the male para and the male special education teacher. The male para who was working with her turned his attention to another child, and my daughter pulled off her shirt. The teacher left to get the female para, and she put my daughter's shirt back on her. He said nothing to me when I picked her up yesterday, but he went to the principal's office to report it after we left and she called me. The principal told me the para was shaking, he was so badly affected by this, and if it happens again, he will stop working with my daughter. She asked me to put her in overalls for school until she tells me to stop. I'm OK with dressing her in overalls for school, but I think maybe the male para is overreacting to this. My daughter is nine. Her breasts are not developed yet. Intellectually, she is doing modified fourth grade work, but emotionally and socially, she is more like a preschooler than a fourth grader.
I asked her about the incident and she said, "Boys don't have to wear shirts," and I told her she is a girl and she has to keep all her clothes on at school unless she is in the bathroom or the private room (another room where she sometimes changes her clothes). I told her it embarasses people when she takes her clothes off. I sent her to school in overalls this morning and the female para was there instead of the male who has been there almost every other morning. Is there something more I should have said or done yesterday? Is there something more I should do about this now?
She has a good working relationship with both the male para and female regular and substitute paras, but if just one person works with her all day, every day, they will quickly burn out as they have done before and I don't want to see this happen again.
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Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods. - Albert Einstein |
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Serissa
Ex-Moderator
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Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 4570
Location: A DEN OF INIQUITY!!!
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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I'd ask if the male is still going to be working with her. I'm guessing he's worrying that if someone walks in on him and a nine-year-old girl with her shirt off, there goes his career. I think you should look into why he's not there and set up some sort of a plan in case your daughter does this again; but it doesn't sound like you have done anything wrong.
By the way if this is the first time she's done this and it's not a pattern there's not a whole lot of reason to expect it to happen again; however I'd suggest getting her a training bra or something if she does keep taking her shirt off in public whether she actually needs one or not; just as a practical consideration. It won't really solve the issue but it might make any future incidents less emabarrasing.
BTW, I'm stupid- what's a para? |
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ster
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 24, 2005
Posts: 2398
Location: new england
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Serissa~ you're not stupid.....a para is short for a paraprofessional. in some locations, they're called Educational Assistants, in other locations they're called Teacher's Aides .
Aspen~ i wouldn't worry so much about this incident. clearly, the para was overreacting...yes, he needs to be mindful of his career, but c'mon lighten up !...one thing that's worked in the school i teach at for a student with similiar issues is wearing a bathing suit underneath her clothes. ..it's a little harder to take off, and more comfortable than overalls. |
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TheBladeRoden
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 11, 2005
Age: 24
Posts: 1271
Location: Wisconsin
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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 I thought she was calling all the teachers paraplegics.
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TheGreyBadger
Toucan
Joined: Jan 01, 2006
Posts: 266
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Serissa wrote: | I'd ask if the male is still going to be working with her. I'm guessing he's worrying that if someone walks in on him and a nine-year-old girl with her shirt off, there goes his career. I think you should look into why he's not there and set up some sort of a plan in case your daughter does this again; but it doesn't sound like you have done anything wrong.
By the way if this is the first time she's done this and it's not a pattern there's not a whole lot of reason to expect it to happen again; however I'd suggest getting her a training bra or something if she does keep taking her shirt off in public whether she actually needs one or not; just as a practical consideration. It won't really solve the issue but it might make any future incidents less emabarrasing.
BTW, I'm stupid- what's a para? |
Not a training bra, which is still visibly underwear and so could cause problems. A sports bra, which people wear as outerwear as well. |
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BeeBee
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 01, 2005
Posts: 2257
Location: Upper Midwest, USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I think he overreacted as well but I think the training bra is a good idea. Along with an explanation to her that wearing it is just a rule.
BeeBee |
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CelticGoddess
Sea Gull
Joined: Feb 07, 2006
Posts: 203
Location: Toronto, ON
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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I think you handled it very well and it was obviously an innocent action. She's right, boys don't have to wear shirts so why should she.  I think the male involved over-reacted but I think when he gets his wits about him he'll return. Like mentioned previously he was probably worried about how it would have affected him if someone had walked in. I think a sports bra or even the added layer of a snug tank top would be a good idea.
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TheBladeRoden
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 11, 2005
Age: 24
Posts: 1271
Location: Wisconsin
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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If it's any consolation I think males should wear shirts in public too.
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"I reject your reality, and substitute my own" -Adam Savage |
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Aspen
Deinonychus
Joined: Aug 23, 2005
Posts: 345
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, guys. I can be clueless sometimes. I'll bet he was worried about what someone might think if they walked in on them and her shirt was off and that it might hurt his career. He was working with her when I picked her up from school this afternoon, so I hope it will work out all right. How would I explain to a young nine year old girl what people might think if her shirt was off or should I even expose her to that? I know from her point-of-view it was completely innocent.
 No I wasn't calling the paraprofessionals paraplegics, I was just being lazy because that is what everyone calls them here. Teachers' aides here do not have any specific training requirements but paraprofessionals do. The paraprofessionals who work with my daughter have even more specific additional training about how to work with her because she is extra special. I think she may be the smartest special education student in the school but her behaviors may be the most extreme sometimes.
I'm not sure if I can find a training bra or a sports bra small enough to fit her, but I can look for one. I know I could find little tank top t-shirts, so I will try that under her shirts for now. All her swimsuits she has now are one-piece and that might make it a little more difficult for her to go to the bathroom without stripping all her clothes off. I doubt I could find a two-piece swimsuit here until the weather gets a little warmer.
I am sure boys are supposed to keep their shirts on at school as well, but I doubt everyone would be so extremely upset if a boy had taken off his shirt instead of my daughter.
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ozymandias
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 05, 2004
Posts: 548
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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For the record, being a male and having a daughter in school and having been a substitute teacher. I would have freaked as well if a young girl took off her shirt in the class like that. Even the time that I did as a substitute school nurse, I always made sure that there was an adult female in the room at all times.
Granted I would NOT have made a scene, but, I would have made damn sure that I reported this to a school administrator as soon as possible. Being a guy, you just cannot take the chance that the childs parents would not call the cops, state board of education, a lawyer or whatever. It doesn't take much to ruin a career in this day and age. Sad to say, but, for a male educational professional, you do have to be doubly careful.
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TheBladeRoden
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 11, 2005
Age: 24
Posts: 1271
Location: Wisconsin
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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So that explains why most of my grade school teachers were female.
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"I reject your reality, and substitute my own" -Adam Savage |
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Aspen
Deinonychus
Joined: Aug 23, 2005
Posts: 345
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:44 am Post subject: |
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Thank you ozymandias and TheBladeRoden for helping me see the male point-of-view about this issue. My daughter really likes this male paraprofessional very much and she was told he would quit working with her if she pulled off her shirt again and she says she won't pull it off at school again. I will still try a tank top so hopefully she will stay covered if her impulsivity gets the better of her, although I hope she is able to keep her shirt on.
He was hired especially to work with her because he is tougher than most of the women who were considered but he is still calm and patient with her. I have watched them interact and I am happy with him. I think it is a good thing she is learning to work with people who have a different interaction style as long as they are all consistent in following her Behavior Support Plan.
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Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods. - Albert Einstein |
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Callista
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 04, 2006
Age: 25
Posts: 1663
Location: Central USA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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I'd say they're overreacting a bit to a nine-year-old girl taking off her shirt, especially when they know she's in special ed.
If it's any comfort, that sort of thing isn't too uncommon.
This should be an embarassing story for me; but it should illustrate that your daughter is not the only one--and, in fact, what she did is really quite mild to my own little bit of exhibitionism.
I made a practice of not wearing underwear during my elementary years. It was uncomfortable and I hated the seams. What made this worse was that my mother insisted on my wearing skirts; and also refused to have me evaluated for Asperger's.
I still don't know why I did it to this day; but one day, in the sixth grade (age 11), I was wearing a skirt as usual and no underpants; and I was still figuring out why people thought nudity was such a huge taboo. I pretended to fall down a hill during recess, allowing my skirt to come up over my head.
Basically, I mooned about six or seven nearby classmates.
They didn't mention it to the teacher; only told me "Don't wear peach underwear ever again"; and I agreed not to.
Thankfully I have since understood the reasons for the nudity taboo.
There, I told you it would be an embarassing story.
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Aspen
Deinonychus
Joined: Aug 23, 2005
Posts: 345
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you Callista. Your story helps me see my daughter's point of view. She does not understand the nudity taboo at all and she also has sensory issues with clothing. When she was a baby I had a very difficult time keeping even a diaper on her and it drove me crazy. As she grew a little older, we reached a compromise of sorts: At home, when we are alone, she may wear only underwear to bed. If we have guests or we are guests, she must wear a nightgown or pajamas as well. In public, which means outside of our house, she must wear clothes except in bathrooms or dressing rooms. She usually does a pretty good job following these rules, but she still does not understand the reason why it matters to other people.
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Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods. - Albert Einstein |
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Murdal
Snowy Owl
Joined: Feb 22, 2006
Posts: 147
Location: Fairfax, VA (Wash. D.C.)
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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As someone training in the field of education all of these recomendations are absolutly top knotch.
However, I think the para over-reacted in this case. He must be very scared that he could lose his job. He did the right thing by going to his administrator, but he should have told you at the same time. Ethically speaking of course.
I suggest talking to him personally. Offer him some reassurances. |
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