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Tiberius
Butterfly
Joined: Jul 16, 2009
Age: 25
Posts: 9
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 Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:37 am Post subject: irrational respect for the dead? |
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Two people that I knew from college have recently died (in the last 6 months) and I'm a bit confused by the reaction mutual acquaintances have had.
The more confusing case involves a pathetic fellow that hung around my ex-fiance until she began to use him as leverage in our relationship, culminating in cheating and ultimately the collapse of the relationship. A mutual acquaintance informed me of his recent death and was utterly shocked by the fact that not only was I not upset, but rather amused by it. I really can't find anything nice to say about the deceased fellow, he forged a transcript to get into dental school (and was kicked out when an internship's background check revealed this), he regularly drove while intoxicated, committed burglaries, endangered my life on at least one occassion, pretended to be a friend to maintain proximity to my ex-fiance, and generally was the worst kind of character imaginable.
I can't tell if I'm off-base in being generally thrilled to hear that a person who acted with complete self-interest in a manner so severely impacting my life found a way to end his negativity in this world, or if the mutual acquaintance just has her head so far up her tush that she doesn't realize I'm still upset about his involvement and will never be capable of developing sympathy for him.
Incidentally, the deceased never had any respect for our mutual acquaintance (or anyone else), mocked her openly and often, had a crude story about the first time he met her even. I don't see why the "friend" can't appreciate my perspective and thinks I'm a tactless person because I refuse to deny the disturbing reality which was the deceased's life.
What do you think? |
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Vanilla_Slice
Sea Gull
Joined: Oct 04, 2008
Age: 51
Posts: 243
Location: Hungary
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:07 am Post subject: |
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It always amazes me that when someone dies they always find a person to say something good about them. Never mind that in life they were unliked or even despised, someone will always step up to the plate. I don't believe in the afterlife but it would be fascinating to hear what people say about me at my funeral.
Vanilla _Slice |
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LiendaBalla
Self-editing princess :P
Joined: Oct 24, 2007
Age: 31
Posts: 1506
Location: Houston Texas United States
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| Not irrational. You have rational non-sympathy for him. Sure, don't rejoice too much, but really if those bad things are all you knew of them, then why miss it? |
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Sallamandrina
Velociraptor
Joined: Jan 25, 2009
Posts: 499
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:24 am Post subject: Re: irrational respect for the dead? |
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| Tiberius wrote: |
What do you think? |
They react emotionally, you react rationally. I've been called heartless in similar situations, so I feel for you.
So, should I offer my condolences?  
_________________
"The destructive character is cheerful and friendly and knows only one motto: Make Room" - Walter Benjamin |
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Michjo
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 05, 2009
Age: 25
Posts: 1020
Location: Oxford, UK
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| Sallamandrina wrote: | | They react emotionally, you react rationally. I've been called heartless in similar situations, so I feel for you. |
I disagree, i think it would be more accurate to say they are acting socially. Society creates many stigma's and one of them is to show disdain towards someone who has died (Because a dead person cannot defend themselves). I highly doubt the mutual aquaintence has any real feelings towards the dead individual, she possibly just doesn't want to be seen as sociopathic. |
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drowbot0181
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 02, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 685
Location: Broken Arrow, OK, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:50 am Post subject: |
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I don't think you are being unreasonable in your joy over his death. There is a similar man-child thing that knowingly tried to destroy my marriage, and he is a loser that feeds off of others and is proud of it. He smelled terrible, too...and was proud of that (it's mentioned on his MySpace page). When he dies, I will be overjoyed and will not care what anybody thinks of that. In my opinion, people who indulge in such treachery are deserving of all the misery the world brings them.
Revel in his death, it sounds deserved.
This does bring a question to mind, though... Is there anybody who mourns the death of Hitler? |
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Michjo
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 05, 2009
Age: 25
Posts: 1020
Location: Oxford, UK
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| drowbot0181 wrote: | | This does bring a question to mind, though... Is there anybody who mourns the death of Hitler? |
Justifying the death of millions of jews is a bigger social-stigma than enjoying the death of one individual  But the answer to that question would be yes, there are plenty of people who mourn his death. |
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activebutodd
Phoenix
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Joined: May 30, 2009
Posts: 807
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't revel in another's death because it will happen to everyone in turn one day, and so is no indicator of divine justice. But while I get that you shouldn't 'speak ill of the dead' I don't understand why someone seems to be instantly beatified on their death and spoken of like a saint.
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drowbot0181
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 02, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 685
Location: Broken Arrow, OK, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Michjo wrote: | | drowbot0181 wrote: | | This does bring a question to mind, though... Is there anybody who mourns the death of Hitler? |
Justifying the death of millions of jews is a bigger social-stigma than enjoying the death of one individual But the answer to that question would be yes, there are plenty of people who mourn his death. |
Obviously there would be family (maybe, I don't know) and the few pockets of like-minded individuals that Edward Norton might do a damn good movie about. So, maybe a better way to put is this:
Is there anybody who disagreed with Hitler's ideas and actions that would mourn his death? |
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Michjo
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 05, 2009
Age: 25
Posts: 1020
Location: Oxford, UK
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| drowbot0181 wrote: | | Michjo wrote: | | drowbot0181 wrote: | | This does bring a question to mind, though... Is there anybody who mourns the death of Hitler? |
Justifying the death of millions of jews is a bigger social-stigma than enjoying the death of one individual But the answer to that question would be yes, there are plenty of people who mourn his death. |
Obviously there would be family (maybe, I don't know) and the few pockets of like-minded individuals that Edward Norton might do a damn good movie about. So, maybe a better way to put is this:
Is there anybody who disagreed with Hitler's ideas and actions that would mourn his death? |
I don't think so, or at least i'm not able to imagine such a person. Although i'm not too good with make-belief or empathy so perhaps someone else could answer with more accuracy  |
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drowbot0181
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 02, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 685
Location: Broken Arrow, OK, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I think in the case of those personally affected by a person's death, it is obvious why they mourn and show respect that may seem undeserved. Regardless of the deceased's flaws and mistakes, a person that cared for them will still be saddened by the loss.
But for those not personally affected that still seem to show undo reverence, perhaps it stems from fear of death itself? I don't really know. |
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FireMinstrel
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Jun 06, 2008
Age: 26
Posts: 185
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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In one of my favorite books, a bullied kid poisons his chief tormentor, who is also the star quarterback and pitcher for the school. Despite the fact that he date-raped a girl(driving her to suicide), had "errand-boys"(like the main character) take his knocked-up flings to the abortion clinic, beat up several kids, sabotages the school play, and always got away with it because of his incredible athletic abilities.
After the bully dies, the school's flag is lowered to half-mast for the entire summer, the principal declares the day of his death to be his "remembrance day", and all the news stories declare it a "terrible tragedy", and grief counselors are hired throughout the following year. Yes, he's no longer around to torment people "just because he can", but people are giving him tributes, platitudes, and practically making him out to be a saint.
People should treat the dead just as they deserved to be treated in life. |
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gina-ghettoprincess
Last of my kind
Joined: Nov 09, 2008
Posts: 2812
Location: The Town That Time Forgot (UK)
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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Whenever some person dies and is on the news, and everyone says that they were a lovely person, etc, I can't help but wonder how many of these people were actually complete and utter tossers...
_________________
'Tvoi plastinki slushala ja,
I v kazhdoy nahodila sebja,
Zachem ostanovila menja?
Eva ja ljubila tebja...' |
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Sallamandrina
Velociraptor
Joined: Jan 25, 2009
Posts: 499
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Michjo wrote: | | Sallamandrina wrote: | | They react emotionally, you react rationally. I've been called heartless in similar situations, so I feel for you. |
I disagree, i think it would be more accurate to say they are acting socially. Society creates many stigma's and one of them is to show disdain towards someone who has died (Because a dead person cannot defend themselves). I highly doubt the mutual aquaintence has any real feelings towards the dead individual, she possibly just doesn't want to be seen as sociopathic. |
Feelings and emotions are not the same thing. I'm sure the acquittance had no real feeling towards the dead guy, but most people get very emotional about death. Especially these days when they deny or avoid the reality or their own mortality, so somebody else's death brings out all sorts of unwanted thoughts and emotions. I fully agree that the social taboo also played a part.
_________________
"The destructive character is cheerful and friendly and knows only one motto: Make Room" - Walter Benjamin |
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FireMinstrel
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Jun 06, 2008
Age: 26
Posts: 185
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| There should be a new "social rule" instilled that implies that when a bad person dies, it is simply never spoken of except for funeral arrangements, and after the deceased is buried, they are never spoken of again. |
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