thegreatpretender
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: May 21, 2009
Posts: 51
Location: London, UK, World
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 Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:10 am Post subject: Why do NTs turn nasty ... |
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... for no appearant reason ?
I remember a science fiction short story I read when I was a teenager, which plot involved part of the human race evolving and the new mutants having an innate kindness, respect for the law/rules, and constantly moral behavior, without any physical difference with the rest of humanity.
Of course, in the book, these mutants were immediately identified from their behavior, discriminated against, bullied, beaten up, hated, for no appearant reason.
Does this sound a bit familiar ?
Nobody likes to have their inconsistencies or moral weaknesses highlighted. And it is striking that most NTs claim they value:
- truth and honesty
- independent mindedness
- absence of prejudices (about social status, race, gender, etc.)
- sharing, generosity (I don't know if socialism is an Aspie trait, but it seemed like a very reasonable and intuitive theory when I was a kid. I however now think capitalism is a better system, as its incentives are better aligned with human nature, but that's another story) |
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ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29318
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:13 am Post subject: |
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Why does anyone turn nasty.
ruveyn |
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Miyah
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 27, 2007
Posts: 771
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:53 am Post subject: |
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NTs turn nasty once they learn that we are different.
For instance, I had found a house for rent with two older women 6 and 8 years older 7 years ago. The roommate who was 6 years older showed me the tour of the house, and I thought she was really nice. I also thought she would be a nice roommate who would take interest in being a new friend. When I moved in, however, things took a nasty back slide a week later as she realized how different I was. After that, she was a bully in telling me that I couldn't be around her one-on-one. There were even two times where she lied to me and told me that she was having a party and that I wasn't invited, and that I needed to stay away.
6 years after I moved away, I was talking to my mom about her, and she finally told me that when she met my roommate my mom said, "She seemed phoney to me." |
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Silvervarg
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 26, 2009
Posts: 773
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | NTs turn nasty once they learn that we are different. |
Allmost true, they become so when they think they can get away with it. E.i they have a higher rank than you.
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gina-ghettoprincess
Last of my kind
Joined: Nov 09, 2008
Posts: 2898
Location: The Town That Time Forgot (UK)
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:25 am Post subject: |
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I don't know. When I first joined my new school on a Wednesday, there was a girl who I thought was one of my sort-of friends, but then by Monday she was being mean to me. 
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Aspiewordsmith
Sea Gull
Joined: Nov 03, 2008
Age: 46
Posts: 247
Location: United Kingdom, England, Berkshire, Reading
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:42 am Post subject: |
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It is in their neurology to be prejudiced two-faced etc which is a very off putting trait especially between the ages of 12-20. But hwever these people can do it at any stage. The most annoying thing that a neurotypical actually has the delusion of thinking that he or she is better than the Aspergian. Neurotypical people are predominantly not worth knowing. I foung that out late in life; and also their Aspiphobia which I have experienced for about 40 years. If it is not direct hatred what really annoys me is their really fussy and condescending attitude. They make me sick.  |
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Tantybi
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
Age: 34
Posts: 1130
Location: Wonderland
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:21 am Post subject: |
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Fear will take you to the darkside.
Sorry, not to sound like I'm not taking you seriously, I really am. I do think that the Star Wars saga does kinda define how the good guy can become the bad guy as well as how many men will also remain good.
I also think hypocrasy is a human nature, so that's why you see someone claiming to be honest, open minded, generous, and absent of prejudice as they are also screaming, "I'm right and you are wrong." None of those good qualities claim to be free from greed and gluttony that capitalism seems to promote.
I don't think it's an NT vs Aspie thing. I think all people are capable of both good and bad. You do see a lot of athiest Aspies, and fortunately I'm not one of them. Why? Because God is the only thing stopping me from being a bad person in the sense that I would make a very good criminal. I'm usually a very good person, but I tell people that I don't worry about going to hell because hell won't take me. Satan knows I'll take over. Seriously, just as I'm very capable of being good, I can equally be evil. I do think it's possible that my Aspie nature is why I tend to take God so seriously (even with all my jokes) because I make constant conscious decisions to do the right thing where it seems unusual to be that way even though it's not unusual to be Christian. |
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Fiz
The Outspoken
Joined: Jan 30, 2006
Posts: 1920
Location: Manchester, United Kingdom
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:29 am Post subject: |
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I don't think it's NT vs AS, I think it's just people vs people and some people are just nasty for no reason. The why's and wherefore's are often unknown, although personally, I think that those who are nasty take some pleasure out of it, otherwise why do it?
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Michjo
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Joined: Mar 05, 2009
Age: 28
Posts: 1020
Location: Oxford, UK
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| Why do most on the people on this forum try to make people on the autistic spectrum look like angels and saintly, while we mindlessly and nastily attack anyone who might be different than us? Oh snap! We're doing EXACTLY what the OP has described in his post. |
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CyclopsSummers
tunnel visionary
Joined: Jun 22, 2008
Age: 26
Posts: 1902
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| Aspiewordsmith wrote: | | It is in their neurology to be prejudiced two-faced etc which is a very off putting trait especially between the ages of 12-20. But hwever these people can do it at any stage. The most annoying thing that a neurotypical actually has the delusion of thinking that he or she is better than the Aspergian. Neurotypical people are predominantly not worth knowing. I foung that out late in life; and also their Aspiphobia which I have experienced for about 40 years. If it is not direct hatred what really annoys me is their really fussy and condescending attitude. They make me sick. |
I find this a very ironic post. I don't see how you can write off 99% of all people as 'prejudiced', 'two faced', 'delusionally supremacist', and 'not worth knowing', simply because they are not autistic, assuming you are talking about the whole of autistic spectrum disorders when you use the words 'Aspergians' and 'Aspie'.
I feel bad for everyone who's had bad experiences with people they met while attempting to either socialise or simply to function, and I'm certain that quite often there WAS malice in play, but sometimes it's simply ignorance. Someone who's clueless about the autistic spectrum in the first place, will probably see us as rude and maybe purposely unsociable at times, and present themselves as rude in turn. It's wrong and it's quick-and-easy judgment, but that kind of miscommunication does happen, and we often don't know how to properly repair it. Other times, it IS indeed hostile behaviour. What do we do then? Approach it rationally, I'd say, and if reason doesn't work, then at least you tried.
I suppose I'm not one to talk, though; I've had it relatively easy, and I have had the fortune of running into people who were usually understanding of my autism; and run-ins have been mostly with people who didn't know I was.
As for the values mentioned in the original post, I see around me that they are all upheld in society, though they're also violated often enough, which is acknowledged. People in general do value trust and honesty, independent-mindedness, they fight prejudice, and still share generously; I see this all around me, and most of it must be coming from non-autistics for sheer percentages. Yes, there's much injustice in the world, but there's also a counter-force moving against that.
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ddunkin
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Jun 24, 2009
Posts: 64
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| Michjo wrote: | | Why do most on the people on this forum try to make people on the autistic spectrum look like angels and saintly, while we mindlessly and nastily attack anyone who might be different than us? Oh snap! We're doing EXACTLY what the OP has described in his post. |
No duh. I'm not a very nice person. I am self-centered and judgemental. When someone interrupts my concentration, I get nasty. When people break even the most basic rule, I get angry quickly (but well in control of it). I'm easily annoyed by people, and am more judgemental than most NTs likely are (in a logical way). At least I know why I make my decisions about people and it isn't just an emotional 'feeling'.
Or maybe all the NT nastiness rubbed off on me after a lifetime of what I can only describe as social torture. |
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thegreatpretender
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: May 21, 2009
Posts: 51
Location: London, UK, World
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| CyclopsSummers wrote: |
As for the values mentioned in the original post, I see around me that they are all upheld in society, though they're also violated often enough, which is acknowledged. People in general do value trust and honesty, independent-mindedness, they fight prejudice, and still share generously; I see this all around me, and most of it must be coming from non-autistics for sheer percentages. Yes, there's much injustice in the world, but there's also a counter-force moving against that. |
I sure hope you are right. Without being misanthropist, I may focus more on the negative sides of human behaviors recently.
It remains that NTs and AS people seem to react quite differently to moral criticism: I for one am certainly not perfect and when someone highlights a moral flaw in me, either I realise this is something I want to fix, or I am happy to live with it. NTs on the other hand seem to live an image of moral perfection and get really upset when something/someone points out the flaws in this image.
I have the impression most people will call cynical and fight to death anything that compromises that perfect self moral image.
Since AS people seem quite open to realistically discuss these matters, it may be one of the triggers that cause NTs to turn nasty on us.
Just a thought... |
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Janissy
Phoenix
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Age: 46
Posts: 4854
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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Nasty people can turn nasty on anyone, NT or AS. I've had people tear into me and of course it's a very unpleasant experience.
here's where I think a major difference is between As and NT regarding this: when a nasty person tears into an NT, that NT person has a stored memory library of probably millions of positive social experiences. The ugly experience is far easier to see as an isolated incident with an ass%$#$% and easier to shrug off because it's outnumbered by so many positve social experiences.
When a nasty person tears into an aspie, the odds are that the aspie has a smaller (maybe much smaller) library of positive social experiences to compare the ass$%^%$# to and so the ass^%$#% becomes proportionally more important and stands out as representative of humanity in general.
Why do the nasty people do it? It's not that they are insecure (odds are they aren't insecure at all- the insecure bully is a myth created to soothe bullied children). There is also no reason to think they are closet homosexuals. That just sounds like "wouldn't it be ironic?" thinking. It would be ironic. But there's no reason that something is likely to be true just because it's ironic.(I actually threw this in because I just read the "macho vs. non-macho thread and this dovetails with it.)
So why does it happen? Because we're primates. If you spend long enough observing a pack of other primate species you will see them do it too. |
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Dilbert
Will work for love
Joined: Mar 30, 2009
Age: 39
Posts: 1728
Location: 47°36'N 122°20'W
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Michjo wrote: | | Why do most on the people on this forum try to make people on the autistic spectrum look like angels and saintly, while we mindlessly and nastily attack anyone who might be different than us? Oh snap! We're doing EXACTLY what the OP has described in his post. |
No, it isn't the same. We are discussing these things amongst ourselves, and in a civilized manner. We are not getting in NTs faces and calling them names or demeaning them or generally speaking making them feel bad. |
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Michjo
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 05, 2009
Age: 28
Posts: 1020
Location: Oxford, UK
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| We are stating that NT's all turn nasty. Yet noone has said anything about ASPIES turning nasty. There are just as many nasty aspies, as there are nasty NT's. The whole "Us vs. Them" mentality on this forum is mind-boggling. |
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