Why is it such a boom to see a bum?

Page 1 of 1 [ 16 posts ] 

Roman
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,298

29 Sep 2009, 8:49 am

When I moved to India for my postdoc, a lot of people have issues with my hygine, much more so than in America. Back in United States there may be were 5 major incidents regarding my hygine within the past 8 years. But now that I started a post doc in physics, in India, I only been here for 3 months and a half, and I got A LOT of comments.

The number one issue is that I don't take a shower. A chair of theoretical physics group once came to my office and said he just wanted to talk to me. First of all I didn't even know he was a chair. He looked very young, like a student. He also was in the next door from my professor, so I totally assumed he wanted to talk to me because of that. Anyway, I then asked him what does he want to talk to me about. His first response was "are you okay"? Well I AM okay, so if I am just fine the way I am, what the f**k does HE care whether I am okay or not? Then he told me that one of my office mates complained I don't take a shower. Well, she was the one super friendly with me, and yet she complained BEHIND MY BACK about my shower (as they say "great minds and hearts talk about ideas and feelings, average minds and hearts talk about weather and events, small minds and hearts talk about other people and CRITICIZE THEM BEHIND THEIR BACKS").

Anyway, he went far beyond telling me to take a shower. Also, a woman who invited me to do a postdoc here (the one next door to him I mentioned earlier) asked me if may be I can call my mom more often so she can remind me to take a shower. Well, this is ridiculous since, if I forget to take a shower, I will forget to call my mom, too. Or, on the other hand, if I call my mom in order for her to remind me to take a shower , I have already remembered the shower thing, so why call? Anyway, I didn't say it in this way, I simply said I will try to manage it myself without calling her.

So then she contacted the person in the USA who used to be my ph.d. thesis advisor (they have overlapping research interests and they often collaborate, which is how I applied to this Institute to start with) and asked him to contact my mom and tell her to remind me to take a shower. Now, even though he was my thesis advisor, he was at Missisippi while I did my thesis in Michigan. I had two co-advisors, one from Michigan and the other from Missisippi. So the Missisippi guy whom the Indian woman have contacted, then contacted my advisor in Michigan asking him for my mom's contact information. After the Michigan guy gave my mom's email to Missisippi guy, the Missisippi guy actually emailed her to set up a time to talk on a phone. At the same time none of these three people ever mentioned anything to me, nor asked my permission to do any of this .

Now it is EVEN much worse than that! The very woman who invited me to work with her as a post doc, avoids talking to me! And it is not like she is not talkative, she is very chatty with everyone BUT me. When i ask her something, on the other hand, she carefully phrases the answer to make sure it has as few words as possible, as if saying a single extra word is so hard to do. I finally have finished working in one of the projects that I want to post online, and I need someone to read and edit it. Obviously, the first person I asked to read it was NOT her. Instead I approached another professor who works not in my field but close to it. He was the guy who approached me first, back in mid august. Back then he just came back from some kind of event (I am not sure if it was sabbatical or a conference, or whatever) and he wanted to talk to me once he settles down. So I approached him and said "remember you told me you wanted to talk to me in end august or beginning of september, well now it is mid september". He responded "I didn't say I wanted to talk I was just saying hello". Then I asked him "I have some paper I would like feedback on before I post it is there any time we can meet", he just responded he is busy and doesn't have time.

So then I went to that woman to ask her about my reputation. So I first walked into her office and closed the door behind me since I didn't want everyone on the floor listen to my whining. She said, in a very strict voice, "please open the door". I then opened it. Then she said "I really don't feel comfortable talking to you". I then told her that yes I remember what made her uncomfortable, namely when I just came to India I was asking the same questions over and over, such as about dangerous deseases in India, or how is it possible that there are different rules regulating post docs and grad students, etc. But right now I don't have any of these questions since its been few months and I seen that things been working just fine. In the past I kept asking the questions over and over because I weren't 100% sure on the answer, only 90%; but now I am 100% sure since I seen tihngs working, so I won't be asking.

Anyway, she then asked me what do I want her to do. I said I want her to start tlaking to me again, since I won't be asking the kinds of questions I been asking in the past. Then she responded that there is another reason why she doesn't talk to me, which is a physical one, which is that I don't shower. She then went on to say a monologue on how I have been told over and over, for the past three months, to shower and how I still don't. She then said how "everyone on this floor" has that problem with my not showering. And how it is the last time she is saying it to me, but if in future I find that she doesn't talk to me it would be because of the shower. She then went on to say how she knows about my disability but I should not be using it as an excuse to do anything and everything. Now, all of it was one monologue, she didn't let me insert a single word in any of it. When I tried to interrupt her, she just said that "there is no excuses and no negotiations". Now, I never tried to "make excuses or negotiations" with anyone in the institute. So my only guess is that since the building is open, she probably heard my conversations with my ex at the gate over the phone when I tried to perswade my ex to get back together with me and was making "excuses" and "negotiations". But she didn't mention it, thats just my guess.

Another favorite thing that people in India like to ask me is why is my index finger on the right hand constantly dirty. That is the finger that I was biting when I was little. Normally I would think of some ridiculous thing I am obsessed about (for example, how Socrates, while desperately trying to stay alive after being poisoned, would drink more of a poison to get trace vitamins to help his body, or that mark of the beast inspires a great spiritual experiences, or how an excommunication ceremony might sound so spiritual that it misleads ppl that they are doing a favor to the ppl they are excommunicating) and bite my right index finger while thinking these things in my head. Anyway, because I did that so often, my right finger is swolen permanently. For some reason, also it always accumulates dirt. I can only speculate that this dirt comes from the pens I am using to write. But I have no idea why it is specifically my right finger that accumulates that dirt. My only guess is that may be skin texture had changed due to the biting so that the dirt doesn't come off as easilly?

Anyway, NO ONE IN USA EVER have asked me about my index finger! The ONLY hygine comments I got in USA was shower. But here in India the index finger is a favorite thing for them to bring up. What pisses me off is that people, INCLUDING SECURITY GUARDS, would put a fake smile on their face pretending to be friendly, ask me for my name as if they are just trying to get to know me, and then ask about my finger, as if it is one of the ways of getting to know me better. Even worse, within these three months probably 5 to 10 times I been stopped by a security guard on the street who wanted to know my name and where I am staying. When I ask why, he just says that he likes me and wants to get to know me better. WOW, as if I am so stupid that I would think that it is okay to ask someone where you are staying simply because you like them, or that security guards are in the business of striking leisurly conversations because they like people.

A few days ago there was someone on a motorcycle who was much more honest and he said that he stopped because my clothes seem very dirty, and because I have a cut on my hand (I had knife in my backpack and when I tried getting something out I cut my hand by accident). I then told him that my clothes are dirty simply because there is no washing mashine at the hostel I am staying so I have to give my clothes to security guard over there to wash them which I often am not up to doing. His next question is what exact hostel am I staying. I then ask him is he security or something. He said no, he just wants to help me. I then told him that I don't need his help, but he still was repeatedly asking me am I sure that I don't need his help.

Anyway, when I told my ex about it she told me that I should be showering more often. And she tried to make me understand people's reaction by asking me a rhetoric question "do YOU like to be around the bum". I was surprised when she referred to be as "bum" and I was like "how much do ppl have to IGNORE who I am in order to take me as just another bum". But then when I was overanalyzing the word "bum" in my head I saw something amusing. On the one hand, the word "bum" sounds like that person lying in the corner you barely notice. On the other hand, that word is so similar to the word boom, which means just the opposite to the above. So that brings the question posed in the title of the thread: "why is it such a boom to see a bum"? The answer: because people are so obsessed over the bum that they MAKE the boom around him, even though he, on his own, would never make a boom out of himself!



Last edited by Roman on 29 Sep 2009, 10:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,265

29 Sep 2009, 8:58 am

If I were you, trying to get a degree, I would do what they wanted. Not taking the shower could jeopardize all that. I would think about what's more important, not having a shower or getting the post grad. It sounds like a lot of people are taking an interest in you. When people act like that, it's not always a good sign. If you do what they want, you can avoid trouble with them.



Roman
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,298

29 Sep 2009, 9:12 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
If I were you, trying to get a degree, I would do what they wanted. Not taking the shower could jeopardize all that. I would think about what's more important, not having a shower or getting the post grad. It sounds like a lot of people are taking an interest in you. When people act like that, it's not always a good sign. If you do what they want, you can avoid trouble with them.


Just to correct you, I already have ph.d. I am doing post doc, and there is no "degree" that I obtain once I complete the post doc.

However, I agree with the "spirit" of your post since the contract that I have has a clausure that either party can end the contract for any reason, and if they do end the contract it would be very hard to get another post doc. But whenever I ask them about ending contract they keep telling me that they are not going to do that (in fact, that is another way I allientated them because I was asking them this question several times in a row, despite getting the same answer).



Rakshasa72
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Sep 2009
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 655

29 Sep 2009, 9:45 am

What's keeping you from taking a shower?



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,265

29 Sep 2009, 9:51 am

Roman wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
If I were you, trying to get a degree, I would do what they wanted. Not taking the shower could jeopardize all that. I would think about what's more important, not having a shower or getting the post grad. It sounds like a lot of people are taking an interest in you. When people act like that, it's not always a good sign. If you do what they want, you can avoid trouble with them.


Just to correct you, I already have ph.d. I am doing post doc, and there is no "degree" that I obtain once I complete the post doc.

However, I agree with the "spirit" of your post since the contract that I have has a clausure that either party can end the contract for any reason, and if they do end the contract it would be very hard to get another post doc. But whenever I ask them about ending contract they keep telling me that they are not going to do that (in fact, that is another way I allientated them because I was asking them this question several times in a row, despite getting the same answer).

Maybe you are doing this subconsciously because you think it is one way to get out of the contract...



Nightsun
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 567
Location: Rome - Italy

29 Sep 2009, 9:55 am

If you need to work with other people there are social rule you must respect. Taking a shower is one of this, painfull or not, it's not something you can avoid.



Roman
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,298

29 Sep 2009, 9:57 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Roman wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
If I were you, trying to get a degree, I would do what they wanted. Not taking the shower could jeopardize all that. I would think about what's more important, not having a shower or getting the post grad. It sounds like a lot of people are taking an interest in you. When people act like that, it's not always a good sign. If you do what they want, you can avoid trouble with them.


Just to correct you, I already have ph.d. I am doing post doc, and there is no "degree" that I obtain once I complete the post doc.

However, I agree with the "spirit" of your post since the contract that I have has a clausure that either party can end the contract for any reason, and if they do end the contract it would be very hard to get another post doc. But whenever I ask them about ending contract they keep telling me that they are not going to do that (in fact, that is another way I allientated them because I was asking them this question several times in a row, despite getting the same answer).

Maybe you are doing this subconsciously because you think it is one way to get out of the contract...


No I do NOT want the contract to end. Even though there is no degree, if my contract ends sooner than it should be, I would have very hard time finding another post doc which would end my career. I don't want my career to end since being a physicist is my life time goal.

The reason I was asking about ending contract is because I am AFRAID of it so I want to be reassured over and over it won't happen.

As far as hygine, it has nothing to do with any kind of subconscious behavior since I NEVER had a habbit of taking showers regularly. My habbits didn't change in either direction when I moved to India. It is simply that ppl in India happened to be more picky.



Greentea
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Age: 62
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,745
Location: Middle East

29 Sep 2009, 10:01 am

Nightsun wrote:
If you need to work with other people there are social rule you must respect. Taking a shower is one of this, painfull or not, it's not something you can avoid.


Is it indeed a social rule, or a question of consideration and not wanting others to have a bad time? I always shower to meet others, even if I don't do it when I spend days on my own. But I do it out of caring for my fellow humans, not in order to avoid breaking a social rule...


_________________
So-called white lies are like fake jewelry. Adorn yourself with them if you must, but expect to look cheap to a connoisseur.


Roman
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,298

29 Sep 2009, 10:14 am

Nightsun wrote:
If you need to work with other people there are social rule you must respect. Taking a shower is one of this, painfull or not, it's not something you can avoid.


I don't have any sensory issues that I am aware of, so taking a shower is not painful. It is simply that in India I have to turn a heater on probably 10 minutes before taking a shower, then wait while the water heats up, and then take a shower. This is very inconvenient because whenever I want to wait for something I would open my physics and start studying and then it is hard to stop 10 minutes later.

Also the other thing is that I typically study on campus, or at the restaurants, until it is very late, and come home when I am totally sleepy, and then I simply don't have patience to wait until water heats up, I just want to roll into the bed. When I do that, I tell myself I can always shower tomorrow mornting. But then tomorrow I have to take a bus to campus that only leaves ONCE at a certain time. I do put on alarm clock to wake up somewhat before I have to leave. But then again I have this story that when I start studying I don't feel up to being interrupted so I study until the exact time bus has to leave and then I have to run to the bus, without shower.



AlienVisitor
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 55

29 Sep 2009, 10:24 am

What do you mean by 'not regularly'?
South India is a warm region, if I'm not mistaken...
Something doesn't add up, because your ex girlfriend back in the US also claims that you don't shower and look like a bum.
Do you smell? Did an Indian woman/man overhear some conversation and the rumor spread? Why are your clothes so dirty that even Indians would complain about it (besides the infrequent washing that you mentioned)?

Quote:
Anyway, when I told my ex about it she told me that I should be showering more often. And she tried to make me understand people's reaction by asking me a rhetoric question "do YOU like to be around the bum".

Quote:
It is simply that in India I have to turn a heater on probably 10 minutes before taking a shower, then wait while the water heats up, and then take a shower. This is very inconvenient because whenever I want to wait for something I would open my physics and start studying and then it is hard to stop 10 minutes later.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,265

29 Sep 2009, 10:29 am

Roman wrote:
Nightsun wrote:
If you need to work with other people there are social rule you must respect. Taking a shower is one of this, painfull or not, it's not something you can avoid.


I don't have any sensory issues that I am aware of, so taking a shower is not painful. It is simply that in India I have to turn a heater on probably 10 minutes before taking a shower, then wait while the water heats up, and then take a shower. This is very inconvenient because whenever I want to wait for something I would open my physics and start studying and then it is hard to stop 10 minutes later.

Also the other thing is that I typically study on campus, or at the restaurants, until it is very late, and come home when I am totally sleepy, and then I simply don't have patience to wait until water heats up, I just want to roll into the bed. When I do that, I tell myself I can always shower tomorrow mornting. But then tomorrow I have to take a bus to campus that only leaves ONCE at a certain time. I do put on alarm clock to wake up somewhat before I have to leave. But then again I have this story that when I start studying I don't feel up to being interrupted so I study until the exact time bus has to leave and then I have to run to the bus, without shower.

It sounds like it's more a matter of inconvenience because you have to wait for the water to heat, then, you get distracted. What if you turned the heater on before you fixed something to eat, then took a shower? Instead of studying while waiting, do something you won't feel so absorbed by and won't want to stop. Do this everyday at a certain time. It might help you in your pursuit of this goal :D



Janissy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 May 2009
Age: 57
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,450
Location: x

29 Sep 2009, 10:42 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
[It sounds like it's more a matter of inconvenience because you have to wait for the water to heat, then, you get distracted. What if you turned the heater on before you fixed something to eat, then took a shower? Instead of studying while waiting, do something you won't feel so absorbed by and won't want to stop. Do this everyday at a certain time. It might help you in your pursuit of this goal :D


Thios is good advice. You have come so far with your academic goals. It would be a shame to jeopardize this last step because of something so easy to solve. OOOOOOOO's advice solves the problem. After all, doing that would be less of an inconvenience than the initial inconvenience you already undertook of temporarily moving to India.



AlienVisitor
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 55

29 Sep 2009, 10:56 am

Deodorant, perfume, clean clothes, shaved face, haircut, regular showers.
Make up some convincing lie about your poor hygiene and apologize to Indians. :D
Also, girls like men taking care of themselves. :D



sgrannel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,919

29 Sep 2009, 11:08 am

Many unwritten rules concerning manners and social norms are arbitrary. However, taking a shower is not. Once a day at least is the norm. I've noticed, since taking showers every day using a strong liquid soap, that my skin feels greasy and I feel cruddy by comparison if I miss a day. My recommendation is to use the Old Spice High Endurance Body Wash and the Old Spice High Endurance Invisible Solid deodorant. These are what I use. Before I used these, people would complain about how I smell, even though I was showering about once a day or every other day. It was only when one of my sisters talked to me about this that I became aware of this issue.

The very friendly woman who complained didn't intend to betray you. In fact, it seems her intent is to address the problem so she can continue in whatever capacity she has with you without being uncomfortable. Unfortunately, people are not direct about this nor do they offer specific solutions (Old Spice) to a problem you don't even know you have. If people don't like you, they won't even say anything about it. "Of course it's a friendly call. Listen, if it wasn't friendly, you probably wouldn't have even got it."

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWP_rEWG2xk[/youtube]

AlienVisitor wrote:
Deodorant, perfume, clean clothes, shaved face, haircut, regular showers.
Make up some convincing lie about your poor hygiene and apologize to Indians. :D
Also, girls like men taking care of themselves. :D


Heavy perfume/cologne is not necessary, and if you use too much, it can be off-putting. Be careful! If you have a lot of unshaved hair, it's not too bad as long as it's CLEAN. Visually aberrant appearance can be tolerated easily, some might even find the grunge look charming, but bad smell (grunge smell?) cannot. This goes for breath, too, so brush, floss, and see your dentist regularly.

Waiting 10 minutes to shower shouldn't be a big deal. I have to drive to a place away from where I live to shower. I also exercise there, so that's also part of my routine. Work on developing a routine so you can work around the idiosyncrasies of the heater. For example, you might schedule showers around brushing your teeth, for example. Every time you brush your teeth, turn on the heater. When you're done, the hot water will be ready.

Here's what I do. I get wet, then I turn the water off so the soap isn't rinsed away while I'm using it. I scrub all surfaces and lather the hair. I find that the lathering is suppressed on the first application because the soap is absorbing the oils from my skin. I rinse off, and the second time with the soap makes a lot of foam, and that's where the soap really does its trick. Use the soap twice, and turn the water off in between rinsing so the soap stays on while you are using it, and so you don't run out of hot water.


_________________
A boy and his dog can go walking
A boy and his dog sometimes talk to each other
A boy and a dog can be happy sitting down in the woods on a log
But a dog knows his boy can go wrong


anxiety25
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Aug 2009
Age: 43
Gender: Female
Posts: 820

29 Sep 2009, 12:28 pm

I'm not sure I would let the woman talking about me behind my back bother me.

I don't think she did this to hurt you or bug you, but she is in a workplace and is acting like it. People in general are often worried about offending others or making them feel bad. Maybe she wanted to talk to someone to make sure that it wasn't just her noticing it, and to come to some conclusion as to how to address it appropriately. Maybe she didn't think she could address it appropriately without being hurtful, so she went to someone who was able to. In the workplace, one must be very careful about these things because it could cost them their jobs or reputations.

There is the possibility that she was just talking behind your back and was just being... well, mean. But there are other things to think about as well before reaching that conclusion.

I personally am very sensitive to body odors. It's never anything personal, I mean, I can still like the person just fine and all, but it does tend to make me limited to how much I actually converse with them simply because of odor-it gets overwhelming and I have to get away from it.

From their points of view, they have told you several times what needs to be done, and have shown concern several times, so they probably feel you are simply ignoring them or don't care whether or not they talk to you, and it could also give them the impression that you really don't care much for yourself if you aren't taking care of yourself hygienically.

It seems that a lot of your problems stem from the hygiene issues, as before you posted about your experience in teaching and that was one of the student complaints as well. Sounds like it is definitely something that is keeping you from being able to pursue goals/jobs.

It is definitely hard to get into a routine if it is not already part of it, but can you write it down on a dry erase board or something, along with the other things you do daily, and mark it off of your list every day when it is done? That is something I've started recently to help me remember to keep up with the dishes and laundry and such. It's been very helpful so far.

Maybe in the morning, set your alarm to go off early every morning, allowing time for breakfast and a shower. Start heating the water while you make and eat your breakfast, jump in the shower, get dressed, and be out in time to catch the bus.

Don't look at it as something you are doing for other people too... if you look at it that way, then it gives little or no motivation to change anything about it. But instead, remember it's something you need to do to make life a little bit easier for yourself, and it will give you better social connections as people won't be so quick to blow you off or wind up "too busy" to help you when you need it. It's something that will make things better for yourself ultimately.

As far as the bum thing goes... I think people are just so quick to judge others, and come to think of it, even when we are small, we have books and cartoons with poor people or homeless people in them, and they are always dirty and smelly and needing help with things. So they are presented in a way for us to feel pity for them, or the characters around them in the stories often show pity and help them in some way, or they shun them altogether.... so we are sort of "programmed" or taught that this is how you are supposed to react to someone of that appearance. They are always pointed out and treated differently in one way or another.

It's not logical, of course, as they also show "bad guys" as wearing all black, being unshaven, toothless, mean, etc. a lot of the time. It's always hard for kids to grasp that you aren't supposed to talk to any strangers at all, because the bad ones are easy to spot because they will be in all black or something similar.

So it's one of those things associated with the appearance whether correct or not. As I've gotten older, I have realized, of course, that things like that aren't always true and in fact are usually quite the opposite. There is no way to know what a person is like unless you talk to them and get to know them. But a lot of people still make those immediate associations. I'm not sure if it's because of movies or the newspapers, or stories or whatnot, but it seems to be quite automatic still for a lot of people.


_________________
Sorry about the incredibly long post...

"I enjoyed the meetings, too. It was like having friends." -Luna Lovegood


Greentea
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Age: 62
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,745
Location: Middle East

29 Sep 2009, 1:35 pm

sgrannel, what a good, and sweet post. And thanks for sharing that clip, hilarious!


_________________
So-called white lies are like fake jewelry. Adorn yourself with them if you must, but expect to look cheap to a connoisseur.