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MathGirl
Pragmatist
Joined: Apr 12, 2009
Age: 19
Posts: 1231
Location: Toronto, ON
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 Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:30 pm Post subject: Banned Member Thread |
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This is something I've seen done on another forum, and I think it will be a good idea to do this on WP as well.
Whenever a member gets banned, it's difficult to figure out whether they are banned or not unless they put it in their signature. This leads to people talking about banned members, asking whether they are banned or not, which is against the forum rules. There are a few people on this forum whom I sent a PM but they didn't reply, and they don't visit the forum anymore. If I knew that they are banned, I wouldn't have sent them a PM since they can't read it anyway.
So, here's the idea. The mods should make a thread that is only accessble to them and whenever a member is banned, they will post their name in the thread, as well as the period of time for which they are banned. I think it's also a good idea to state the reason for the ban as there will be less disputes over the moderators' decisions that way.
Who likes this idea? Moderators' opinions are especially welcome.
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makuranososhi
Purple Monkey Dishwasher
Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 6208
Location: Transitional
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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It still leads to talking about banned members; it is just moderators who would be the ones breaking the rules. If a banned member wishes to contact Alex or a member of the moderation team, there are options available to them.
M.
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He thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
From my heart and from my hand, why don't people understand my intentions...?
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TallyMan
Ghost in the machine
Joined: Mar 31, 2008
Age: 149
Posts: 14383
Location: Everywhere, nowhere and everywhen
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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I too have seen similar things on other sites.
I think it would be an excellent idea. A few months ago there was a lot of discussion about a particular long-term member who suddenly stopped posting. He wasn't replying to PM's and nobody knew how to contact him. He was much liked and while sometimes a little forthright with his views he was never offensive, so it didn't register that anyone would ban him.
We knew from earlier posts that he had serious health problems and had undergone major heart surgery and we began to think that he had died! It was only some considerable time later that we discovered he had been banned and the mods hadn't told anyone. They didn't even bother to post anything in a long thread that had appeared in the members section pondering his absence and people worrying about him!
One simple thing that maybe Mods could perhaps do is set the custom rank to "BANNED" so at least people know what is what. That couldn't be construed as discussing a banned member.
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The Sun has risen and set for millennia. I saw the first sunrise and will see the last sunset. I am everything and nothing, witness to all; the ghost in the machine.
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CerebralDreamer
Velociraptor
Joined: Dec 23, 2008
Posts: 417
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| I thought they already did that? It seems I've seen a few posters, who had some sort of red x and a 'banned' label attached to their post. Maybe I was wrong about it, but I've seen that a few times, on more than one account. |
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lau
Really nice person to know. :)
Joined: Jun 18, 2006
Age: 61
Posts: 9889
Location: Somerset UK
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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My personal thoughts on this...
Members who are banned always know exactly why they have been banned.
It is their business, and their business only.
Publicly humiliating them is not something we have any desire to do.
As makuranososhi has already said, banned members have options for appealing their ban, and some indeed do so, and are reinstated once they have undertaken not to continue doing those things that earned them the ban in the first place.
======
An occasion when a username gets a "banned" badge is when the username is a member opening a second account - to make it clear that to do so is completely against the rules... and will make us very much less likely to reinstate them.
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greenblue
¸.·´´¯`··.¸.·´
Joined: Mar 26, 2007
Posts: 9068
Location: Home
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| lau wrote: | My personal thoughts on this...
Members who are banned always know exactly why they have been banned.
It is their business, and their business only.
Publicly humiliating them is not something we have any desire to do.
As makuranososhi has already said, banned members have options for appealing their ban, and some indeed do so, and are reinstated once they have undertaken not to continue doing those things that earned them the ban in the first place.
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well, the issue here seems about people not knowing members are banned and they are talking about them when there is a rule against discussing them.
[user-A40 is banned]
user-B21: where is user-A40?
user-D93: I don't know, he has not posted anything for quite some time.
user-B21: Too bad, he is interesting........................
user-D93: Yes, he usually.........................
user-M01: Do not talk about banned members, it's against the rules.
user-B21: I didn't know he was banned.
I think pretty much that seems to be the idea, no?
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makuranososhi
Purple Monkey Dishwasher
Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 6208
Location: Transitional
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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Just a few thoughts and tangents on the matter, from my personal perspective:
There are no perfect solutions. That which does the greatest good for the greatest number is a concept which I find most applicable here... and note that the wording, that of doing the "greatest good" - not the most popular or most convenient.
Once a member is banned, the site rules forbid discussing them or the situation in the forums. What you suggest is in direct violation of that expressly written rule.
Giving more publicity or notoriety to an individual who has been banned goes against every fiber of my being.
As a teacher, I remember one student in particular who took apparent pride in having been kicked out of every group that he had joined. So I refused to give him the satisfaction - if he was going to leave, he was going to quit on his own.
M.
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He thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
From my heart and from my hand, why don't people understand my intentions...?
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lau
Really nice person to know. :)
Joined: Jun 18, 2006
Age: 61
Posts: 9889
Location: Somerset UK
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| greenblue wrote: | | lau wrote: | My personal thoughts on this...
Members who are banned always know exactly why they have been banned.
It is their business, and their business only.
Publicly humiliating them is not something we have any desire to do.
As makuranososhi has already said, banned members have options for appealing their ban, and some indeed do so, and are reinstated once they have undertaken not to continue doing those things that earned them the ban in the first place.
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well, the issue here seems about people not knowing members are banned and they are talking about them when there is a rule against discussing them.
[user-A40 is banned]
user-B21: where is user-A40?
user-D93: I don't know, he has not posted anything for quite some time.
user-B21: Too bad, he is interesting........................
user-D93: Yes, he usually.........................
user-M01: Do not talk about banned members, it's against the rules.
user-B21: I didn't know he was banned.
I think pretty much that seems to be the idea, no? |
No.
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TallyMan
Ghost in the machine
Joined: Mar 31, 2008
Age: 149
Posts: 14383
Location: Everywhere, nowhere and everywhen
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:34 am Post subject: |
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One of the aims of WP as far as I'm aware is to encourage dialogue a sense of community between its members and I dare say a degree of friendship between various members. When a friend suddenly disappears without explanation it is naturally going to lead to dialogue where their friends question the persons absence. Sometimes people go away on holiday, or just get fed up of WP for a while or maybe they have committed suicide or become ill or got run over by a bus. In real life people would be asking shared associates and friends what has become of their mutual friend. It seems to be catch-22 on WP. You aren't allowed to talk about banned members but you aren't allowed to be told they are banned. Doesn't that sound just a little bit illogical and maybe even somewhat callous regarding the feelings of other members?
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The Sun has risen and set for millennia. I saw the first sunrise and will see the last sunset. I am everything and nothing, witness to all; the ghost in the machine.
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lau
Really nice person to know. :)
Joined: Jun 18, 2006
Age: 61
Posts: 9889
Location: Somerset UK
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| TallyMan wrote: | | One of the aims of WP as far as I'm aware is to encourage dialogue a sense of community between its members and I dare say a degree of friendship between various members. When a friend suddenly disappears without explanation it is naturally going to lead to dialogue where their friends question the persons absence. Sometimes people go away on holiday, or just get fed up of WP for a while or maybe they have committed suicide or become ill or got run over by a bus. In real life people would be asking shared associates and friends what has become of their mutual friend. It seems to be catch-22 on WP. You aren't allowed to talk about banned members but you aren't allowed to be told they are banned. Doesn't that sound just a little bit illogical and maybe even somewhat callous regarding the feelings of other members? |
No.
All members of WP have read the rules (a requirement, before posting). It is therefore clearly one of several options, when a member ceases posting, that they may have been banned. Typically, viewing their recent posts will make it quite obvious if that may have been the case.
You give examples of other instances when a member may stop posting. Please explain in which such instances public discussion of their absence would be useful and appropriate?
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"Striking up conversations with strangers is an autistic person's version of extreme sports." Kamran Nazeer |
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sinsboldly
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 22, 2006
Age: 59
Posts: 14244
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:39 am Post subject: |
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I have several ways to get in touch with people I have met on WP. If I were banned, those people would get in touch with me, or me with them. If people bond so well on WP that they would be missed, why wouldn't you already know how to contact them outside of WP?
just sayin' |
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Maggiedoll
Loon
Joined: Jun 05, 2009
Age: 25
Posts: 2125
Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| sinsboldly wrote: | I have several ways to get in touch with people I have met on WP. If I were banned, those people would get in touch with me, or me with them. If people bond so well on WP that they would be missed, why wouldn't you already know how to contact them outside of WP?
just sayin' |
Honestly, there are a lot of people on WP that I would be like  if they suddenly stopped posting, but wouldn't have any way to contact them. Maybe that's just 'cause I haven't been here as long as some other members..
| Lau wrote: | | An occasion when a username gets a "banned" badge is when the username is a member opening a second account - to make it clear that to do so is completely against the rules... and will make us very much less likely to reinstate them. |
Ah-ha, I was wondering about that!
| Lau wrote: | | All members of WP have read the rules (a requirement, before posting). It is therefore clearly one of several options, when a member ceases posting, that they may have been banned. Typically, viewing their recent posts will make it quite obvious if that may have been the case. |
That's a good point.. I suppose something could have happened in PMs?
Of course, from what I can tell nobody gets real trouble for things that are done non-maliciously.. There was a thread awhile ago that was talking about a particular non-banned member, and while the name was moderated out and people were told to stop talking about other members, nobody was treated like they were bad or anything like that, cause it was pretty obvious that nobody meant any harm.. So that might make this whole thing kinda a moot point.
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greenblue
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Joined: Mar 26, 2007
Posts: 9068
Location: Home
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| lau wrote: | | All members of WP have read the rules (a requirement, before posting). It is therefore clearly one of several options, when a member ceases posting, that they may have been banned. Typically, viewing their recent posts will make it quite obvious if that may have been the case. |
well I have been wondering about a user who have stopped posting, and I don't see much of a reason for that person being banned, I can speculate that if said person was banned, the posts may have been deleted, I can also think that they may have just moved on to something else and stopped posting here, might as well had an accident, etc.
The question is, does the lack of knowledge of a member matter or not when it comes to the issue?
Is that a bannable offense or at which point it becomes the case?
No what?
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makuranososhi
Purple Monkey Dishwasher
Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 6208
Location: Transitional
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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In my experience, I have never seen a member on WP get banned themselves for inadvertently bringing up someone who has been banned. There have been instances where the issue has been pressed beyond that point, and pushed further after being warned on the matter, but those have been extremely rare occurrences. If you have a question, you might be better served inquiring with a moderator in private than posting in the forums - and thus avoid breaking the rule entirely.
M.
_________________
He thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
From my heart and from my hand, why don't people understand my intentions...?
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lau
Really nice person to know. :)
Joined: Jun 18, 2006
Age: 61
Posts: 9889
Location: Somerset UK
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| greenblue wrote: | | lau wrote: | | All members of WP have read the rules (a requirement, before posting). It is therefore clearly one of several options, when a member ceases posting, that they may have been banned. Typically, viewing their recent posts will make it quite obvious if that may have been the case. |
well I have been wondering about a user who have stopped posting, and I don't see much of a reason for that person being banned, I can speculate that if said person was banned, the posts may have been deleted, I can also think that they may have just moved on to something else and stopped posting here, might as well had an accident, etc.
The question is, does the lack of knowledge of a member matter or not when it comes to the issue?
Is that a bannable offense or at which point it becomes the case? |
I'm not sure what these questions are asking.
| greenblue wrote: |
No what? |
Are you quoting my answer to your earlier question:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp2480965.html#2480965
or are you quoting my answer to TallyMan's question:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp2481025.html#2481025
If it was the former, I answered your question: "I think pretty much that seems to be the idea, no?", with "No", because I felt your suggested scenario did not make real sense, and hence could not really be "the idea". Your fabricated dialogue makes it appear than a ban might be a surprise to people who were familiar with a particular user, when that just doesn't happen.
As you yourself say in this latest post: "... I don't see much of a reason ...", thereby acknowledging that you do see a reason for them being banned.
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