| Will you still call yourself/your kid an Aspie? |
| Yes |
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66% |
[ 18 ] |
| No |
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33% |
[ 9 ] |
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| Total Votes : 27 |
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RSDavis
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Jan 16, 2010
Posts: 65
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 Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:42 pm Post subject: DSMV and Asperger's Syndrome |
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So, they are totally doing away with the diagnosis of AS? Seems odd, considering so much Aspie pathology is the exact opposite of typical Autism. I am wondering what this will change, in regard to diagnosing, getting support, etc.
Also, to you Aspies out there, will it change what you say you have, or will you continue to say Asperger's Syndrome? |
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League_Girl
This used to be my playground
Joined: Feb 05, 2010
Posts: 2538
Location: My apartment
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| The older autistics label themselves as having Kanner's so why not keep on saying we still have Asperger's after they remove the name? |
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pensieve
Autist and Artist
Joined: Nov 19, 2008
Age: 24
Posts: 3826
Location: NSW, Australia
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CockneyRebel
Mick Avory, Sensitive brown-eyed Cockney
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Age: 35
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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I just say that I'm HFA, because it's the truth about me. I can see why you guys are worried. Who's going to take you seriously and help you if you need it, when they do away with AS?
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RSDavis
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Jan 16, 2010
Posts: 65
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| pensieve wrote: | Exact opposite, how?
I won't still be calling myself Asperger's. I seem to relate more to HFA anyway.
I want to get as far away as possible from ASSpergers and ASSpie. |
Well, language development, for one. |
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ShadesOfMe
Bunny Pirate on the seven seas!
Joined: Jul 01, 2004
Age: 19
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Location: California
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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I just want to say, that the OP sounds exactly like my mom. she says that Auties Regress and aspies Progress. she's really upset with this. I have aspergers syndrome, it is on the spectrum. it is pretty much the same as HFA, there are just different levels to it. Like for instance, my friends who are diagnosed as aspies seem to be more able to socialize, but a boy I know who is diagnosed HFA has a lot more problems. I was friends in middle/highschool with a boy who was one or the other, it was confusing, but one time he actually told me he was either.
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RSDavis
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Jan 16, 2010
Posts: 65
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| ShadesOfMe wrote: | | I just want to say, that the OP sounds exactly like my mom. she says that Auties Regress and aspies Progress. she's really upset with this. I have aspergers syndrome, it is on the spectrum. it is pretty much the same as HFA, there are just different levels to it. Like for instance, my friends who are diagnosed as aspies seem to be more able to socialize, but a boy I know who is diagnosed HFA has a lot more problems. I was friends in middle/highschool with a boy who was one or the other, it was confusing, but one time he actually told me he was either. |
Am I wrong? I am still pretty new to this, but it just seemed that people with full-on Autism often regress or never really develop speech, while Aspies (at least my son) develop a large vocabulary really early. The trouble with Connor is getting him to STOP talking for a minute, haha...  |
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pensieve
Autist and Artist
Joined: Nov 19, 2008
Age: 24
Posts: 3826
Location: NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| RSDavis wrote: | | pensieve wrote: | Exact opposite, how?
I won't still be calling myself Asperger's. I seem to relate more to HFA anyway.
I want to get as far away as possible from ASSpergers and ASSpie. |
Well, language development, for one. |
Well I could not read 3 seconds after I was born. I could not even read when I was five years old.
As for speech...I think I said a few words when I was 2 years old, but didn't talk much after that until I was 14.
Some classical autistics can develop speech.
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RSDavis
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Jan 16, 2010
Posts: 65
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| pensieve wrote: | | RSDavis wrote: | | pensieve wrote: | Exact opposite, how?
I won't still be calling myself Asperger's. I seem to relate more to HFA anyway.
I want to get as far away as possible from ASSpergers and ASSpie. |
Well, language development, for one. |
Well I could not read 3 seconds after I was born. I could not even read when I was five years old.
As for speech...I think I said a few words when I was 2 years old, but didn't talk much after that until I was 14.
Some classical autistics can develop speech. |
Well, there you go. Would you say that my scenario is typical, or your scenario? Or is there no typical, really? |
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Callista
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 04, 2006
Age: 27
Posts: 5252
Location: Central USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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"There is no typical". Exactly.
How about my case? Speech on time or early; communicative speech at around three and a half--at the same time as I learned to read. Then, conversational reciprocity not until about nine! Highly unusual language development, sure, but hey, I spoke on time and that's considered Asperger's, at least by my shrink.
By the book, of course, it's classic autism; but currently I am practically a textbook case of AS, minus the lack of imagination and monotone voice, plus adaptive skill delays. So where do you stick me?
(Technically, PDD-NOS. Along with the majority of diagnosed autistics today!)
AS and autism get very very similar once you get old enough to learn speech.
BTW, the correct sentence isn't, "Some classical autistics can develop speech." It's, "Most classical autistics develop speech." As in, about 85-90%. And some of the rest will learn alternative communication methods (PECS, sign, writing, symbolic languages).
I've been calling myself just plain Autistic for a while now, ever since I realized just how similar they are, and how muddled the supposed dividing line is. Speech is only one of many things that can be different from person to person on the spectrum. The thing we share seems to be some oddity of information-processing in our brains; but what it is and how to quantify it and use it as a diagnostic criterion, nobody knows yet.
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KoS
Snowy Owl
Joined: Mar 03, 2010
Posts: 129
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Callista wrote: | "There is no typical". Exactly.
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There are definitely typical aspies, no doubt about it. Well, from an outsiders perspective anyways. I think you guys don't see it because you get confused by the fact that other aspies you talk to aren't IDENTICAL to you or each other, and the aspies lack of ability to see things in general terms stops thembeing able to see the 'typical aspie' picture that we NTs do.
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RSDavis
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Jan 16, 2010
Posts: 65
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:01 am Post subject: |
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Well, doesn't Temple Grandin suggest that Autism is the next phase in evolution? Personally, I can't wait until you guys start developing super-powers!
But seriously, I find learning about my son a fascinating experience. He amazes me daily. I'm practically obsessed with trying to understand him. It's frustratingly difficult, but every time I get another piece of the puzzle, it's like I've just set foot on the moon.
I think every parent must eventually come to terms with the fact that their children are not the vessels for their own unfufilled dreams, but a one-of-a-kind individual with their own sets of deficits and advantages. But I think parents of people on the spectrum get the unique gift of coming to terms with that much earlier, and as a result get to step back more and watch their child become the person they will be with a greater appreciation and freedom from expectation.
It's a heck of a ride, and I'm grinning with my hands in the air. |
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pandd
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 16, 2006
Posts: 2582
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:17 am Post subject: Re: DSMV and Asperger's Syndrome |
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| RSDavis wrote: | | So, they are totally doing away with the diagnosis of AS? |
Not exactly. They are merging it with the classic Kanner diagnostic entity resulting in a single diagnostic entity that APA claim will encompass both of the current categories.
| Quote: | | Seems odd, considering so much Aspie pathology is the exact opposite of typical Autism. |
I do not think this is the case. I might be amenable to agreeing that some popular stereotypes of each seem somewhat contrary, but would point out that stereotypes for Kanner Autism are often contrary to stereotypes for Kanner Autism and that the same is true for popular stereotypes of AS.
| Quote: | | I am wondering what this will change, in regard to diagnosing, getting support, etc. |
Who only knows.
| Quote: | | Also, to you Aspies out there, will it change what you say you have, or will you continue to say Asperger's Syndrome? |
Not really. Aspergers is Autism. I already refer to myself as both characterized by Aspergers Syndrome and characterized by an Autistic disorder. I doubt I would avoid use of "Aspergers Syndrome" in situations where this appears to me to best communicate whatever it is I am trying to say.
| Quote: | | Well, language development, for one. |
That is not the case though. People with AS are supposed to not have experienced qualitative delay in the acquisition of speech early in development that cannot be explained by something other than Autism (for instance delays caused by being unable to hear properly due to a specific hearing impairment would not rule out a diagnosis of Aspergers Syndrome). However people without a qualitative delay in the acquisition of speech can be diagnosed with Autistic Disorder in the DSM and "lack of delay" is not really the opposite of "a the lack or a presence of a delay".
| Quote: | | Am I wrong? I am still pretty new to this, but it just seemed that people with full-on Autism often regress or never really develop speech, while Aspies (at least my son) develop a large vocabulary really early. The trouble with Connor is getting him to STOP talking for a minute, haha |
You are somewhat wrong.
People with "full on Autism"? Do you mean "kanner/classic Autism" aka Autistic Disorder in the DSM?
So far as I know verbal regression that is not transient and the result of stress, distress or ill health (and anyone including neurotypical people can regress in such circumstances) or the result of some specific cause, would be somewhat rare. I understand that is quite common for initially non-verbal Autistic people to eventually acquire a level of functional speech and perhaps not all that common in this day and age to not acquire a level of speech (generations raised insitutionally are not a good measure as it seems institutionalization has very negative implications for the development of Autistic people).
The whole point of developmental disorders is that they tend to entail a problem with development rather than some sudden loss or cessation in function or development. The exception that illustrates this rule is "Rhetts Syndrome" (aka childhood disintegrative disorder). There is in fact a level of controversy as to whether Rhetts should even be considered either a developmental disorder or Autism because it does not entail atypical early childhood development, but rather a sudden regression occuring in the context of normal early development.
Now to address your point about this being a trait that is opposite. This is in my view the result of something imposed rather than recognized by the current diagnostic criteria. To understand this, consider a group of non-Autistic people. Imagine you separated this group on the basis of how well they were acquiring speech skills in early childhood development. Call one group A and one group B. Imagine 10 years later you then measured their competency in speech and found one group was on average better with verbal speech than the other. Would you consider that this is because of some diagnostic entity each group was characterized by; that one group is worse at language because they have Aism, and the other is better because they have Bism, or would it be more likely that you could observe this generalized distinction in later verbal skill (in each group) because you intially assigned each person to whichever group on the basis of their early developmental acquisition of speech?
In essence we have not ever found that there are two distinct entities, one with delays in speech and the other without. Rather, we took a group and divided them in part on the basis of early speech acquisition. This is an arbitrary distinction as there is no way of determining how speech will develop later other than that as a very general rule that applies somewhat to all humans, someone with problems at time 1 is more likely to have problems at time 2 than someone with no observable problems at time 1, and no particular significance has ever been shown to be attributable to, or indicated by early childhood acquisition of speech, other than the same kind of general significance that applies to non-Autistic people.
To further clarify the arbitrary and non-prognostic nature of this distinction, in one research project, clinicians were asked to observe groups of people that included both kanner and asperger Autistics, all of whom were currently verbal. They were unable to differentiate which person belonged to which group on the basis of their current verbal skills and quirks. All subjects including those with Aspergers Syndrome manifested anomalies in verbal communication and the clinicians were not able to find any particular traits, patterns or presentation aspects that allowed them to reliably differentiate which people had experienced early qualitative delay in the acquisition of speech, and which had not. |
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Danielismyname
Keep making noises... .
Joined: Apr 03, 2007
Posts: 9599
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:45 am Post subject: |
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As per the American Psychiatric Textbook, almost all individuals diagnosed with Autistic Disorder ("full on autism", whatever that is), gain adequate expressive speech by the time they're adults (meaning, they're within the normal continuum of ability). They may not have much social stuff to talk about, but people with AS don't either; people with AS just learn to talk on time.
It's rare to have a nonverbal adult with autism. |
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Asp-Z
The Aspie Steve Jobs
Joined: Dec 07, 2009
Age: 16
Posts: 3006
Location: London now, Monaco soon...
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: DSMV and Asperger's Syndrome |
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| RSDavis wrote: | So, they are totally doing away with the diagnosis of AS? Seems odd, considering so much Aspie pathology is the exact opposite of typical Autism. I am wondering what this will change, in regard to diagnosing, getting support, etc.
Also, to you Aspies out there, will it change what you say you have, or will you continue to say Asperger's Syndrome? |
They're not the opposite, they're pretty much the same.
Whether or not I continue to use the term "Asperger's" depends on if the change in the DSM affects the UK or not.
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