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thegreatpretender
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30 Sep 2010, 5:30 pm

Here are some of the characteristics of the main protagonist:

- neuro-atypical, epileptic
- does not see the point of lying
- profoundly gullible, takes what he is told literally
- oblivious to the intrigues around him and hidden agendas
- age-inappropriate friendships with children
- insensitive to social or financial ambition
- treats everybody in the same manner, is blind to social status
- in platonic love with a woman because of the beauty of her character

Idiot?



YourMother
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17 Nov 2010, 7:34 pm

The title is ironic. The idea behind the book was to explore how society would react to a genuinely good/kind person. Or Dostoevsky's idea of a good/kind person.



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17 Nov 2010, 11:35 pm

It would help a lot in understanding Dostoyevsky to learn about Eastern Orthodox Christianity. You cannot, I stress, cannot separate Dostoyevsky from his deeply Orthodox sense of Christian morality and spirituality. Yes, people--especially non-Russians--do it all the time. But you're not going to grasp Dostoyevsky is any genuine sense unles you contend with his spirituality. He was an Eastern Orthodox Christian and he wrote as one.

In the Christian spiritual tradition, there is what is called a "Holy Fool" or "Fool for Christ." It's a spiritual archtype--a spiritual ideal--not necessarily a portrait of any real person. Historical persons labelled Holy Fools have often been mentally handicapped, mentally ill, people consciously acting against social convention despite the consequences, or perhaps in a few a cases, people who would be now dx'd with a developmental condition.

In Russia, a Holy Fool is called a yurodivy, and it is well-known that yurodviy characters appear in a few of Dostoyevsky's works, including The Idiot. We can back up these interpretations, in most cases, by the many notes Dostoyevsky left su in his hand-written manuscripts. Reading those notes are very illuminating into how Dostoyevsky wrote intentionally as a Christian writer, very concerned with spiritual and moral imagery and symbolism.

So if you're suggesting Prince Myshkin is suppose to be an Aspie, I would have to say that's reading into the text. That wasn't the author's intention. His intention was that the prince would be a Holy Fool, a Christian spiritual archtype and moral symbol. You can make analogy between Prince Myshkin and Aspies all you wish, but to say the prince was an Aspie, or on the spectrum, would be a faulty interpretation and disrespectful of the author's intentions.



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18 Nov 2010, 6:04 am

I have this book on my floor, perhaps I should pick it up and read it.


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18 Nov 2010, 8:20 am

I think this man is generally a kind person. I don't see what's wrong with loving and admiring people despite their financial or social status, being more than congenial with children, and not having a beguiling bone in the body. It is the true essence of Eastern Christianity, and it is not idiocy; this is truely innocence.



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18 Nov 2010, 10:41 am

KissOfMarmaladeSky wrote:
I think this man is generally a kind person. I don't see what's wrong with loving and admiring people despite their financial or social status, being more than congenial with children, and not having a beguiling bone in the body. It is the true essence of Eastern Christianity, and it is not idiocy; this is truely innocence.


I've not read it, but I think that's the point Fyodor was going for.


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KissOfMarmaladeSky
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18 Nov 2010, 2:28 pm

Moog wrote:
KissOfMarmaladeSky wrote:
I think this man is generally a kind person. I don't see what's wrong with loving and admiring people despite their financial or social status, being more than congenial with children, and not having a beguiling bone in the body. It is the true essence of Eastern Christianity, and it is not idiocy; this is truely innocence.


I've not read it, but I think that's the point Fyodor was going for.


I read a bit on Eastern Christianity, and they said Jesus was supposed to be an innocent, childlike figure, so basically the people with supposedly low intelligence were considered to be Christlike, hence the name "cretin".



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18 Nov 2010, 2:40 pm

Mercurial wrote:
It would help a lot in understanding Dostoyevsky to learn about Eastern Orthodox Christianity. You cannot, I stress, cannot separate Dostoyevsky from his deeply Orthodox sense of Christian morality and spirituality. Yes, people--especially non-Russians--do it all the time. But you're not going to grasp Dostoyevsky is any genuine sense unles you contend with his spirituality. He was an Eastern Orthodox Christian and he wrote as one.

In the Christian spiritual tradition, there is what is called a "Holy Fool" or "Fool for Christ." It's a spiritual archtype--a spiritual ideal--not necessarily a portrait of any real person. Historical persons labelled Holy Fools have often been mentally handicapped, mentally ill, people consciously acting against social convention despite the consequences, or perhaps in a few a cases, people who would be now dx'd with a developmental condition.

In Russia, a Holy Fool is called a yurodivy, and it is well-known that yurodviy characters appear in a few of Dostoyevsky's works, including The Idiot. We can back up these interpretations, in most cases, by the many notes Dostoyevsky left su in his hand-written manuscripts. Reading those notes are very illuminating into how Dostoyevsky wrote intentionally as a Christian writer, very concerned with spiritual and moral imagery and symbolism.

So if you're suggesting Prince Myshkin is suppose to be an Aspie, I would have to say that's reading into the text. That wasn't the author's intention. His intention was that the prince would be a Holy Fool, a Christian spiritual archtype and moral symbol. You can make analogy between Prince Myshkin and Aspies all you wish, but to say the prince was an Aspie, or on the spectrum, would be a faulty interpretation and disrespectful of the author's intentions.


This is a very good post and extremely to the point. I'm not Russian, but I have extensively studied Dostoevsky and Mercurial's interpretation is in line with Dostoevsky's journal and other similar sources.


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22 Nov 2010, 1:20 pm

I think me and my avatar emphasize the idea of a Holy Fool all too well.

It's not because I am an ASPIE or an NT.

If anything, its because I'm one of the few people who seem to straddle the border.

I understand peoples expressions, but have trouble following their motives. I never got the idea of social status, and I never will. I do seem to get along best with either people more then twice my age or little kids. I treat people equally, and don't hold anything against them unless they mistreat me.

I am, however, sensitive to what people say, and am prone to fits of temper. I often get like that when I feel that something is unfair or that some kind of right or justice has been trampled on. My mom's skin is just as thick when it come to gory details.

Mabye that's why I feel jinxed or left behind sometimes. It can be a cruel cruel world. And I am anything but a saint, yet I take the bible to heart all too readily.

The only real reason I doubt it is because, well... How can he tolerate people as they are? I try to forgive them, but it seems to only encourage those who would mock me or talk behind my back.

I see Dostoyvesky's point all too well, I'm afraid.



Mike Jurga
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23 Feb 2015, 6:01 pm

In Brothers Karazamov, you find a description of a servant (Smerdyakov) that sounds autistic. He is not a holy fool, though.