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ediself
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30 Nov 2010, 5:50 pm

Hello all!
for those who don't now me i'm the aspie parent of an aspie ( soon to be diagnosed) 9 year old boy , and supposedly NT 18 months old girl.
I had always told my son that if school ever got too rough, he could count on me to put an end to it. He always declined, wanted to make friends and was trying his best. I have discovered in the last weeks that everything was not going as well as he was saying. One of the boys he claimed he was "friends"with apparently threatened to kill him, repeatedly tried to strangle him, threw him to the ground multiple times .I found out all this through his girlfriend ( and only friend) who came for a playdate with her older brother. The boy is 11 and goes to the same school, and he said to me that all the kids at school were calling my son"the ret*d" instead of by name. As in : hey, ret*d, you forgot your coat! and my son goes "ah yeah, true!"and laughs.
He has no idea he is being bullied.
the big brother told me about the pushing, and said "you must have noticed the cut? " i said, what cut??
he brought my son over and showed me his scalp. He indeed had a bad cut, invisible through his thick hair.
I reported this to the teacher and told her to pay attention a bit, she said that my son was also at fault, when other children ask him to come play, he never goes, bla bla. I have been to school, i know what this means: they are calling him in just to hurt him. Play ball just to throw it in his face, play catch just to make him feel like an outcast when nobody tries to catch him. that kind of horrible things.
yesterday his girlfriend ran to me at pick up time and told me he had been thrown against a wall and hurt pretty bad. he has a bump.
my husband wants to go there and shake the living daylights out of the bullies, but i think that would only land him in jail.
i know, i'm wise.
so i am considering homeschooling.
my problem is the school board, including school psychologist, insisting that my son needs socialisation. ( i know it sounds like a joke but i'm pretty sure they are being serious.)
how do i go about convincing them that being bullied is not an appropriate way to learn social skills? or any skills other than becoming a withdrawn full time victim who learnt to smile when being hurt?
gosh i'm mad.
i know it's my right to homeschool him, it is legal, they can't stop me. but i would like to leave on good terms with the school so they don't go calling social services on me ( i live in france, they are weird like that here.)
any argument i could serve them? i'm not good at convincing people ....and homeschooling is not something they are used to. It is legal though. but they morally oppose to it.
please give me ideas on how to go about it?
thanks in advance....



Last edited by ediself on 01 Dec 2010, 4:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

Juliette
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30 Nov 2010, 7:03 pm

Hi - Like yourself, I took comfort in knowing I could always choose to homeschool should the need arise. You may already have this link, but just in case, http://www.lesenfantsdabord.org/eindex.html

I've been home educating my 12 year old son(AS) since he was 6yrs and it's going wonderfully. We're in the UK(I'm Australian). The school environment had led to his regression and was seriously affecting his mental health. I had brought in an Educational Psychologist and the NAS who supported my strategies, but to no avail.

The following are some points re the socialisation issue and home ed. I hope they help you to explain that the school environment can actually do more harm than good for some children on the spectrum. My 2 eldest children were mainstreamed and my son was badly bullied(they tried to drown him at one point and there were plenty of physical attacks - children were expelled, we moved him to private). He's a wonderful son, and living and working independently now. I wish I had home educated him.

Anyways, here are some hopefully helpful points(please forgive the length):

Taken from my website:
You asked “How do you keep homeschooled children from being isolated socially? Are afterschool activities/sports enough to keep them socially interacting with their peers?

The following article answers this question very well(credit to Lise Pyles) …


Socialization and children with Asperger Syndrome


Anybody who has been homeschooling more than 20 minutes knows that the most popular probing question from the masses is: ‘And what about socialization?’ This is an especially bothersome question for families of Aspies who want to homeschool. Since lack of social skills is one of the hallmarks of the child with AS, people naturally assume that keeping a child home instead of exposing him to the social climate of school will just worsen the situation. The reverse is true, in my opinion, for the following reasons:


1. School has people, but that doesn’t make it social. In fact, it is usually fairly anti-social since kids can be very cruel and bullies seem to be an ever-present part of the school experience. What is social about exposing our children to daily torment? Nothing. AS children are natural targets for bullies and the situation frequently results in a tantrum, depression or violence, all of which could have been avoided by avoiding this ‘social’ atmosphere.


2. Homeschooling does not mean denying social experiences. To the uninitiated, homeschooling conjures a picture of cloistering your child at home all the time. For most homeschoolers, nothing could be further from the truth. There are trips to the library and the park, gatherings with other homeschoolers, and lessons and clubs that tie in with the child’s interests. And we still live in neighbourhoods, still have extended family and friends, church, etc. Homeschooling does not mean restricted movement but rather greater flexibility.


3. Social experiences tend to be more positive when done through home education. As homeschooling parents, we can monitor social gatherings to keep them positive. That is, we can pick and choose the activities, watch for bullies and intervene, head off other kinds of trouble, and teach our children with spontaneous social lessons ‘in the moment’, (or make a note to discuss things later). In short, we are on deck. Finally and perhaps most importantly, we can steer our children gently homeward before sensory overload undermines the whole event. In school, our kids do not get the luxury of this kind of protection or customized teaching. It’s usually a case of ‘sink or swim.’ Our kids tend to do more sinking than swimming.


4. Homeschoolers may get more social opportunities out of their day. When we homeschooled, my son was in the comfort zone of his home surroundings for mornings of academic work, and that still left him with some energy in the afternoons and evenings to try other things. Parks department classes, bowling league, swimming lessons, and Boy Scouts were just some of the things he tried. When we stopped homeschooling and put him into a regular school, however, these fell away. He was too burned out from the school day to do anything else, and quit all outside activities. Although he’d wanted to try public school and did fine academically, the trade-off was that he gained some very negative social experiences and lost some very positive ones.


5. The idea that our kids need the classroom experience of having positive role models around them every day is suspect. It’s true that positive role models are better than negative ones, but just placing our kids alongside peer-age, so-called normal kids does not mean that they will intuitively pick up on proper behaviour. In fact, more often than not, they will not pick things up intuitively. Things like social graces, body language and speech pragmatics must be consciously and deliberately and specifically taught, bit by bit. Unless the child has a one-to-one aide to provide full-time tutelage in these things and allow ample rehearsal time, not many skills will be picked up. Contrast that with the home environment, where the parent does have the time and patience to teach these things and can provide a safe place for rehearsing them.


6. Finally, we need to measure by a different yardstick. Our AS kids do not typically need or want the same level of social interaction than their neurologically typical peers do. Not everyone wants to be surrounded by others all day long, have large parties, or a dozen friends. Many of us(self included) cherish solitude, are happiest in our own company and function better with fewer social interactions. This is not abnormal, only different, and it should be honoured. It is far better to have a little interaction and look forward to more another day, than to have too much interaction and suffer devastating consequences.


For further information on the ‘socialization’ issue:
http://www.nhen.org/newhser/default.asp?id=227#soc

All the best.



Last edited by Juliette on 30 Nov 2010, 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TGIDinner
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30 Nov 2010, 7:09 pm

Hi There,

Let me first say that your post (which I read on Twitter) got me SO riled up that I registered for the first time here on "WrongPlanet" in order to reply to you personally.

Secondly I have to say that I'm an American and therefor won't be any help to you legally when it comes to what you have to deal with in France. However, it seems to me in reading your post through three times, that your son has suffered gross and severe human rights violations. If your school district would like to GUARANTEE that his person (body) will NOT be FURTHER injured/mamed, then MAYBE, just MAYBE you'll consider keeping him in his current school.

I am a homeschooling mom of two kids with special needs. Our oldest (12) has Down syndrome and our daughter (almost 11) has Asperger's. It is part of the diagnosis that they CANNOT recognize when they're being bullied (your son has been ABUSED and TORMENTED--this is OUTRAGEOUS) because Asperger's can SEVERELY impair a person's ability to read other people's cues, body language and language pragmatics. Your son has been singled out BECAUSE he has this disability and unfortunately knowing human nature as I do, this situation will NOT improve and your son will continue to suffer at the hands of attackers.

Homeschooling is absolutely the BEST thing for socializing children!! Does your school district think it's appropriate "socialization" to have him VICTIMIZED on a daily basis? Is that their definition of "socialization"? If so, they need to check the Geneva Convention on Human Rights.

If you have the legal right in France to homeschool, then GO FOR IT!! It's a FABULOUS decision that you will never regret!! There are LOTS of us parents of kids w/ Asperger's who homeschool (and many come from where you're coming-having had their children abused and beaten in school by the very same peers that are supposed to be helping them become "socialized") and you will have LOTS of support! I personally would LOVE to be a part of your support system.

As far as your concerns regarding the government coming in and threatening to take your child away....you have PLENTY of evidence and testimony that he is NOT SAFE in his current school situation. He IS safe at home and he will be academically challenged (homeschooling kids around the world regularly test VERY high on any and all standardized tests that governments require) and he will THRIVE as a human being and therefor become a vibrant and active member of his community.....in other words, he will be socialized!! !

I really hope this helps!! !

All the very best to you and please don't hesitate to contact me!!

Gigi, Los Angeles, CA
(5th year homeschooling mom to two kids)



LostAlien
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30 Nov 2010, 7:11 pm

Would a good reason be saying exactly what I think you've said here? As in, what social skills is he going to learn from being physically abused? How is he going to learn anything but fear from these experiences?

Ask them why they don't have a better anti-bullying policy? and why did you have to find out from another child what was happening? Explain that when your child is in their care he shouldn't have to worry about being injured again (& again) by his classmates and you wish to take him out of their school because of their negligence.

You don't neccessarly have to say you're home-schooling him do you, you could just say you're removing him from their school possibly?



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30 Nov 2010, 9:06 pm

Explain calmly and rationally that you will purchase a locker to shove your son into as well as balls to throw at him on a regular basis. That should suffice for the level of "socialization" they are providing for him now. As for true socialization, do you intend to isolate your son and never let him speak to people in the outisde world? If not, it is likely he will learn to socialize naturally, in an environment you both have more control over. I don't know how common it is to homeschool in France, but here in the states, it is not at all unusual to see many other families who homeschool. There are many groups he can become a part of to practice his skills while enjoying a hobby or learning something new. Homeschooling isn't for everyone, but children who favor a calm environment and flexible learning can do very well. I have been homeschooling two of my children (one NT, one AS) for three years and they love it.



ediself
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01 Dec 2010, 4:42 am

first i want to thank you all for your replies, they are really appreciated.
I have told the school psychologist exactly those things, especially Juliette's first point, that being bullied is not in my opinion a good way to socialize, but she answered he should learn how to react to it so he can learn the interactions that exist in the real world.
I went as far as asking her if she thought that, were i to stand up and attempt to strangle her or give her a nose bleed right now, would she deem my social interaction appropriate? because this is what he is learning to see as normal right now. She didn't have a proper answer, she agreed with a nod, but didn't make a sentence .
basically she thinks she knows better, because i am "just a parent"...
She also dismissed what i said about sports and other activities, saying only the school environment provides the structure a child needs to be a complete citizen later.
In short, she doesn't want to hear what i have to say.
It is sort of complicated to explain to people who work for the national education system that their system does more harm than good, because they feel personally attacked in my opinion, and i don't know how it is in america but french people love to debate and come to no conclusion at all , everyone stands their ground, they will never admit that i may have a good point.
The fact that i don't have a diagnosis for him yet doesn't help, but i'm pretty sure , seeing how enlightened they are about autism , that they will say "he needs to socialize even more" if he is indeed on the spectrum.
She actually told me he was too much in his own world and should come out of his shell. By being punched out of it? i swear my jaw dropped , sometimes i really don't know what to answer to them.....
I already told her and the head of the school who is also his teacher, that i would be homeschooling him. i already have the agreement of the academy btw, so all i need is his "out"paper, however you say that in english, the paper saying he doesn't belong in this school anymore, and i will enroll him in the CNED, which is supported by the national education , so it IS a real school, only at home.
I know they can't really interfere with my decision, but i just wish they would understand my point.
they make me feel like a criminal or something.
the pedagogical reunion ( where we discuss our plans, there will be me, the head of school , the school psychologist and probably a "regional teacher"that i have no clue what or who it is) will probably be held before the christmas holidays as i called for one. my husband will be there but he doesn't speak french so that's not much support.
it will be me, the bad parent who wants to take her special needs son out of the only system that would beneficiate him, against 3 "grown ups in suits"very full of themselves. pray for me.
sometimes i wish i was NT and would either know how to convince people or not care what they think........
Thank you all again for your time, and TGIDinner, thanks for coming here especially to answer me, i felt very validated in my anger :P it does feel good to know you're not alone !



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01 Dec 2010, 5:16 am

I live in France too, and my 11 year old AS/PDD son is home-un-schooling, has in fact done so for most of his school-age life.

He tried school at 5 for 3 weeks, hated it, so we followed a private correspondence course for 3 years, ( Cours PI ), which was ok but boring, and then began "unschooling", no course work at all, and he carried on learning anyway, ( reading, playing on computer, writing, drawing, etc ), and with just a couple of weeks "cramming" with exercise books before the annual "controle" by the Academic Inspection he managed to pass ok each time.

Then in Sept 2009 he tried the last year in a local primary school, but left after three weeks, ( deadly dull and alienating factory-like ).

However we began to worry, with the transition to big school coming up, so he ended up doing 5 months ( Feb to end June ) at small local private catholic school where he did incredibly well academically, overtaking everyone in maths within a couple of weeks, and matching the best in his class in almost every other subject, made two friends, ( oddities too! :lol ), but was constantly excluded/sidelined by most of the other children.

However it had gone so well in most respects that he was happy to try the first year at the local public "college"/secondary school, in September, ... where he lasted just three weeks because it was so deadly dull, and the children didn't even "play" properly in breaktimes, just "hung out", which he thinks is boring ( and his two friends at the other school were a year younger so didn't move up with him ), and older children were beginning to single him out for mockery. So he's back to unschooling, and after last year's results at the catholic school we're not worried about the academic side of things.

Les Enfants d'Abord, that one person linked to, can be very helpful with advice both legal and social, and with support and local groups if you live in a large town. We don't, ( but we continue to belong to Leda because of the support and advice ), and my son sees very few people, but he has got a couple of friends that he sees occasionally. He did do karate, ( for 2 years ) pingpong, and odd other things, but he found them pretty boring. But he is happy, and flourishing, so I'm not worried.

Where do you live? That can make a difference to how the local/Mairie "Social Control" goes ( once every two years, first one usually within a month or two of beginning homeschooling ) . The councillor/conseilleur at the Mairie that we see is super sympathetic about it, but some places they do put pressure on you.

Am happy to answer any questions you have about french system, not sure how long you've been here. :)

PS. Re. relations with the head-teacher at the "college":

I managed to make it sound as if we were dying for him to continue at school, :lol ( because my son may want to try again next year or the year after ), but that the hours were simply too long for him ( which they were, and a reduction in hours/going part-time is only available to children with medical certificates/reasons etc, and although I mentioned autism to him I said we didn't want to go down the medical route for the moment, and the head-teacher seemed relieved if anything, because he said it was very complicated managing those sort of arrangements ... eg. my son only going in mornings or something like that ... but maybe you could enquire about that if your son is officially diagnosed? ) and that he is young for his age and so isn't into the sort of "stuff" which motivates the other children, "yet"! :lol

Exactly like your experience the only reason that his "year-teacher" came up with for why he should carry on was "socialisation", ( as if they secretly know that the academic side of school, for anyone not actively neglected or culturally deprived at home anyway, is of little value ), and the french do seem to be obsessed with this issue.
.



ouinon
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01 Dec 2010, 5:48 am

PPS. Good luck with the meeting. I can totally understand that you want to keep relations friendly, because even the smallest rancour on their part could have you in bureaucratic excrement for a long time.

That's why I did my best to make it sound as if it was all my son's fault for being so "fragile", and "immature" etc ... I got the distinct impression that the headmaster was most worried about his school looking like a failure, and of him looking uncooperative and unhelpful/inadequate, or professionally irresponsible, etc.

So I reassured him, that it was all "our problem". :lol :D

PPPS. Juliette, that was a totally brilliant post about homeschooling! :) :D
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ouinon
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01 Dec 2010, 6:11 am

Final PS! :lol

It was actually a really interesting example of social-game-playing tactics with the head-master. I realised after my first meeting with him that he was more worried about how he and his school "looked" than in the welfare of my son, and so I talked it through to myself, ( and with my son, to see if he was ok with me presenting him as somehow "feeble" and "weak", he was fine, he thought it was funny! :) ) in order to approach it in such a way that there would be little future hostility from the college or the authorities.

Re. the intellectual thing, and not backing down: the intellectual arguments etc are just a tool that they use more in France than in the UK for instance, but I think that the intellectual stuff is just another way of "saving face". So I didn't argue with him, ( having tried unsuccessfully with his year-teacher before realising my mistake ), and instead did everything I could to make him feel "good" about himself and his school.

If you don't actually want to take them to court for negligence ( which I could however understand your wanting to seeing how badly your son was abused ), then I'd suggest dropping the "complaints" angle, and bypass/short-circuit the intellectual arguments, ( which are their defense system ), by concentrating on enabling them to "save face". :)
.



ediself
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01 Dec 2010, 6:16 am

hey, ouinon :) i think i know fairly well how the french system works, i'm french myself and have been in trouble before for not bringing him to school when he was 3 and exhausted/sick.....i know how they are. People here might think i'm a tad paranoid but i think it's sort of justified hehe!
your advice, of letting them think they are doing everything right but my son is just not fitting in for reasons i cannot understand, is actually really good. They actually understood what i said in a previous reunion about the academic part being "also important"and that i wanted him to succeed academically, and didn't seem to object to THAT part, which i find weird in retrospect. Inded, it's not their priority.
to give you a bit more background: we were living in holland for years previously , and since in holland you are not allowed to follow normal class until you speak the language fluently, he was held back 2 years playing puzzles. then he moved to group3, which is our "CP", and american....group 1? i guess. so when he moved to france , we realised that he was not allowed in ce1, ( group 2? ) but had to move to cm1 directly, as they classify by age group regardless of the level.
he is academically 2 years behind everyone because of it,and i can put him in the class he belongs to if i homeschool him.
i talked about putting him at school in the mornings only but indeed, you need an agreement from the "handicapped department of education" or whatever it's called, so he needs to be classified as handicapped first. it's too long, could take a whole year.
i don't live in a big city, it's actually a very small village,the mayor is a teacher at the school part time ( lol), and everybody can meet him whenever. If i do this i will probably arrange a meeting with him explaining my reasons and asking for advice on this and that so he can feel important and not left out, shielding me a bit from retaliation.
where are you in france? tell me in PM if you prefer, just the general region :) and thanks for the advice, i'm really impressed that you managed to pull unschooling in france lol, now THAT takes b**ls of steel......



Last edited by ediself on 01 Dec 2010, 6:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

ediself
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01 Dec 2010, 6:19 am

just read the "final ps"lol, and yes that's what i got from your previous..ps? :lol: indeed i should focus on letting them think i worship their professionalism...



ouinon
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01 Dec 2010, 6:24 am

:) :lol

I live in the foothills of the french alps, east of Montelimar.

Good plan for the Maire! :lol

And good luck again! :)
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ediself
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01 Dec 2010, 6:33 am

The "les enfants d'abord"website seems a bit off...is it supposed to look like this? i can see almost nothing on it..just a FAQ, and there is nothing much...maybe it's my browser?



ouinon
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01 Dec 2010, 6:35 am

This is the link for home page: http://www.lesenfantsdabord.org/

You may have to join to see the forums. :)

PS. It's bit slow loading, but it works.
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ediself
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01 Dec 2010, 7:03 am

aaaaah there it is :) thank you very much!



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08 Dec 2010, 11:56 pm

I am an aspie who was homeschooled for 8 years. Pretty much the best thing that ever happened to me. (well, not the best thing, but you know what I mean).

Kids can be animals in school, and get away with bullying & harassing behaviour that would be criminal if it were done in the workplace.

When I started going to a mainstream school in grade 8 it took me a long while to adjust, but there were other kids in my class who were on the spectrum (I'm guessing) who were just used to being bullied and were total doormats. I never want my kids to just accept that people can call them names and assault them.