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J40kfan17
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:15 pm    Post subject: Aspergers and conditions such as Schizoid and Avoident Reply with quote

Do you believe that someone can Aspergers syndrome may also have Schizoid and/or Avoident behavor.

Having been diagnosed with Aspergers in kindergarten around age 9 (very typical in that regard). After some searching and not trying to sound like a hypochondriac but seem to share many symptoms with the above personlity disorders with some slight paranoia. My question is to you on do you think Aspergers can and/or often often coexist together together much like Schizoid can coexist with elements of paranoia and other asocial behavior.

So what say you?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Aspergers and conditions such as Schizoid and Avoident Reply with quote

J40kfan17 wrote:
Do you believe that someone can Aspergers syndrome may also have Schizoid and/or Avoident behavor.


Avoidant: I'd say definitely, I've been an avoidant aspie myself.

Schizoid: Unsure, though asperger's and schizoid PD share some similarities. I spent a couple of years as a self diagnosed schizoid, until I finally learned about asperger's.
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Verdandi
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was just reading a study about personality disorders in autistic people and ADHDers (and those with both).

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/163/7/1239

That study suggests that Avoidant, Schizoid, and Paranoid were pretty common, though.

It was interesting to me that the Cluster B disorders were barely represented, and two were entirely absent (histrionic and antisocial).
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Aspergers and conditions such as Schizoid and Avoident Reply with quote

J40kfan17 wrote:
Do you believe that someone can Aspergers syndrome may also have Schizoid and/or Avoident behavor.

Having been diagnosed with Aspergers in kindergarten around age 9 (very typical in that regard). After some searching and not trying to sound like a hypochondriac but seem to share many symptoms with the above personlity disorders with some slight paranoia. My question is to you on do you think Aspergers can and/or often often coexist together together much like Schizoid can coexist with elements of paranoia and other asocial behavior.

So what say you?


I don't study this subject much. All I can tell you is that I am diagnosed both Schizoid and Avoidant, alongside my ASD diagnosis, with a few others thrown in.

Just like the study Verdandi linked to, my doctors also believed I developed my personality disorders as a result of growing up with autism.

So the opinion that schizoid and avoidant can coexist alongside autism is the opinion of both my psychiatrist and a phd psychologist who evaluated me.

Hope that helps.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been trying to see if it was possible to have both schizoid, paranoid personality disorder (which I have) and Asperger's Syndrome. I have also been told to have schizotypal disorder as well, and generalized anxiety disorder. I feel the lines have been very blurred, and I am trying to pinpoint what it is I really have. I strongly believe I have Asperger's, as one doctor has diagnosed me with that and not the schizoid/schizotypal disorders. This is why I want to know if it is possible to have both. Can anyone help?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not fond of the whole "personality disorder" construct.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's possible to meet the criteria for both.

I'll edit to add that I think the entire notion of "personality disorder" seems questionable to me, and that personality disorders often seem to manifest with neurological differences that imply to me that they are really not different in terms of category from other psychological or neurological conditions.

I also suspect that schizoid PD was an earlier (1920s) observation of autistic features, but I have no proof for this.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Verdandi wrote:
It's possible to meet the criteria for both.

I'll edit to add that I think the entire notion of "personality disorder" seems questionable to me, and that personality disorders often seem to manifest with neurological differences that imply to me that they are really not different in terms of category from other psychological or neurological conditions.

I also suspect that schizoid PD was an earlier (1920s) observation of autistic features, but I have no proof for this.


That does make sense, but I quite find it annoying that my doctor calls me as having a personality disorder as well as Asperger's Syndrome. I am one who is very imaginitive, bottles my emotions out of necessity, cannot relate to people as most people to me are not on my intellectual level, so I appear to have schizoid and/or schizotypal disorder. Perhaps these doctors simply do not understand, and just want to label us and define us into a particular and perhaps (looked at as) undesirable group.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, people who are diagnosed with personality disorders are viewed as undesirable, untreatable, automatically non-compliant. Some who are not deliberately manipulative are labeled as such. Denial of having a PD is used as evidence that you do have it. Any behavior you engage in is used as evidence you do have it.

The whole thing is a mess.
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Aspiewriter
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Verdandi wrote:
Yeah, people who are diagnosed with personality disorders are viewed as undesirable, untreatable, automatically non-compliant. Some who are not deliberately manipulative are labeled as such. Denial of having a PD is used as evidence that you do have it. Any behavior you engage in is used as evidence you do have it.

The whole thing is a mess.


So any doctor I talk to or anyone I TRY (and probably won't) get help from means I have PD AND AS? I know I have AS for sure. I was diagnosed a total of three times by three different doctors. One of which of course tells me I have schizotypal/schizoid personality disorder. And A SEVERE case at that.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aspiewriter wrote:


So any doctor I talk to or anyone I TRY (and probably won't) get help from means I have PD AND AS? I know I have AS for sure. I was diagnosed a total of three times by three different doctors. One of which of course tells me I have schizotypal/schizoid personality disorder. And A SEVERE case at that.


I don't understand your question.

I don't think all doctors will refuse to help, and I think the cluster B diagnoses are the ones that get the most stigma (anti-social, borderline, histrionic, narcissistic).

One thing is that there's so much overlap between schizoid and AS that it's very easy to meet the criteria for both. I don't usually have a clear idea of the distinction (I have researched this over and over, but it doesn't stick).
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe that I could be diagnosed as having avoidant PD, but I think that I am more accurately described as AS with severe social phobia. I think that the point is moot, because the treatment is pretty much the same in either case. I'm pretty sure that I am not schizoid.
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Aspiewriter
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Verdandi wrote:
Aspiewriter wrote:


So any doctor I talk to or anyone I TRY (and probably won't) get help from means I have PD AND AS? I know I have AS for sure. I was diagnosed a total of three times by three different doctors. One of which of course tells me I have schizotypal/schizoid personality disorder. And A SEVERE case at that.


I don't understand your question.

I don't think all doctors will refuse to help, and I think the cluster B diagnoses are the ones that get the most stigma (anti-social, borderline, histrionic, narcissistic).

One thing is that there's so much overlap between schizoid and AS that it's very easy to meet the criteria for both. I don't usually have a clear idea of the distinction (I have researched this over and over, but it doesn't stick).


Sorry. My question was really rhetorical, I think. I am just trying to wrap my head around having both conditions. I really think the difference between schizotypal and schizoid disorder is too blurred anyway. I remember reading one person suggested the distinction really between the two is because one can become full-blown schizophrenia (I think the schizotypal disorder).
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universeofone
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

post removed by author

Last edited by universeofone on Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Nier
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm reposting something Kon wrote in the mild Asperger's thread, as it relates to the OP's question

Quote:
I really like this paper describing introversion as a non-clinical part of the autism spectrum:

http://etd.fcla.edu/CF/CFE0003090/Grimes_Jennifer_O_201005_MA.pdf


The paper (though it obscures meaning through overly convoluted language) essentially proposes that introversion & autism are part of the same continuum, and there is overlap with the schizophrenia spectrum. She cites studies that use 'schizoid' instead of 'introverted', so the labels are very fluid as the professionals still don't know how best to describe these connected phenomena that human brains exhibit.

So the health profs may currently be describing an elephant from different angles, but have yet to see the whole beast. If so, there may be less distinction in future between discrete labels of schizoid, introvert & autistic, and maybe different descriptions about how far along the spectrum someone is & what are the primary traits / behaviours / patterns that characterise that individual.
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