Would you say this is a sensory issue?

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Meghan
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04 Mar 2011, 5:19 pm

My son is in pre-school this year and they have problems with him at circle time. Every other time of the day is no problem for him, he follows the routine, can pay attention etc. They have 2 circle times, one is in a huge open room and it's "learning circle". He does fairly well at this circle time, pays attention for the most part, participates in activities. The second circle time is story time and is held in a smaller room with the door closed. The teachers say he cannot focus for even one single second - he causes trouble, opens cupboards, distracts the other kids etc. His hearing has been tested and is fine, and we read books at home all the time and he can sit for 30 minutes or more reading books. I'm wondering if it's the particular room they are in that's causing a sensory issue with him. I don't see a lot of other sensory issues with him other than cutting his hair which cannot be described any other way than a nightmare and I avoid it at all costs lol! He also gives a really hard time every time we have to change his clothes off or on...not sure if that's sensory related or not. Other than that I've never noticed any other sensory issues and just wondering what you all thought about this situation in his pre-school. The teachers are certain it's not any kind of ADHD concern, but they aren't really sure why he does this at circle time. Any thoughts?



jat
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04 Mar 2011, 6:08 pm

Have you been in the room - are there fluorescent lights? Perhaps the lights flicker or buzz? Has the story circle time ever been held anywhere else, and if so, has your son responded any differently? If his response is to the room, rather than to what happens in the room, it has to be because of something about that room, whether it's the lights, the sound of the heating system, or something else that other people aren't noticing.

This may be an obvious question, but ... have you asked him? Sometimes, we forget the most obvious approach, and our kids often have lots of information that they don't give us because we don't ask. If you ask him why he doesn't stay in his seat, and whether there's anything about the room that makes it hard for him to pay attention during circle time, he might have a lot to say!



draelynn
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04 Mar 2011, 6:23 pm

First off - not a doctor - just my opinion based on my experience with my daughter.

It could be sensory issues. Ask the teachers to look closely at the two rooms and see whats different between them. Is the smaller room brighter? Have fluorescents? Is it decorated busily? Is there a different rug texture? Is there a heat/air vent that hisses? Is it towards the end of his day that he loses focus? Dips in blood sugar can really mess with focus and emotional stability. A small snack just before the time he usually starts losing his focus might help.

Changing clothes might be a transition issue. Lots of warnings and talk thrus might be helpful - give him time to get used to the idea of the upcoming change before it happens. Bedtime is our big one.

Sometimes you gotta play Sherlock & Watson.

You didn't mention - does he have a DX?



angelbear
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04 Mar 2011, 6:28 pm

My son had the same exact issue. I think it is because he just wasn't interested in the story and there were too many other distracting or interesting things for him to get into. I think this is a pretty common thing for kids on the spectrum. My son is almost 6 now and in special needs kindergarten. The teachers have worked with him so much, that he is now sitting during circle time. My son was the same way----ever since he was a baby, I started reading to him, and he would sit for 30 mins to an hour. But at school or the library, forget it! I think part of this is a boy thing also.



angelbear
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04 Mar 2011, 6:31 pm

Is he in a regular pre-k or special needs? He may just need a teacher to sit with him one on one and to help him pay attention.



Meghan
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04 Mar 2011, 7:15 pm

Hmmm, a lot of good advice to check out. Didn't really even think about the flourescents, it probably does have them in there. My son does not have a diagnosis as we're currently on the year long waiting list for ASD testing. But I am 100% certain he will be diagnosed with Aspergers or PDD-NOS, my husband is also undiagnosed with the same issues.
He is in regular pre-school and the teachers and I and a resource consultant along with other therapists are working with him regularly to help improve some of his issues at school. For the most part though, they can handle him through the day but this particular circle time is a real struggle for the teachers since he tends to get the other boys going and so they mimic his behaviours. The preschool is a big open concept, one room building with 30 foot high ceilings. Story time is in the kitchen area which has regular ceiling height and is probably about 20x20 foot room. It is at the end of the day and it is right after snack time. They require to use this room at the end of the day since the building is open concept and parents come in early to pick up kids, its the only room in the building that they can go to where the kids won't see the parents coming in and want to leave the story time.
I would love to ask him if something bothers him in there, but unfortunately he is very speech delayed and would never be able to communicate to me that there was a problem.
I guess I just wondered if it might be something like the way the voices echo in the room or something. It is a kitchen so there are lots of other distractions like cupboards and a fridge and freezer all sorts of stuff he'd love to get into. But he has been going three days a week every week since September. His teachers say he has adjusted to every other routine and they've seen great improvements, just this one area.



misstippy
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04 Mar 2011, 8:04 pm

My son used to do the SAME exact thing! He's four now, but in his 3 year old pre k, he would, during quiet time and story time, flip lights on and off, open and close doors and steam roll over his classmates.

There were a number of accommodations they made to help him. We figured out that it probably was related to sensory issues and coping with transition. So, they had his community based special ed teacher come at those problematic times of day and do a few things to help. First, she made some photo schedules for that transition and reviewed them with him a lot, second, she had him sit in a rocking chair during story time. I believe she also played with having him sit closer to the teacher and having a fidget toy as well. He is doing beautifully at his school this year, and I think it's due to having OT for a year and also having a very structured class with a picture schedule.

Good luck to you!



jat
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04 Mar 2011, 8:18 pm

Meghan wrote:
I would love to ask him if something bothers him in there, but unfortunately he is very speech delayed and would never be able to communicate to me that there was a problem.

Is your son's speech delay receptive, productive, or both? If his receptive language is pretty good, you can probably still get a lot of information from him by using "multiple choice" questions with him. I used to do this a lot with my son, when he was younger, because he would get mute when he was upset. I would ask him questions (gently - never like an interrogation), and the last choice was always "none of the above," so if I hadn't thought of the "right" answer, my son was able to tell me that. It was sometimes hard to figure out what was going on - it took a lot of detective work, but it really helped. Also, I had to stay well attuned to how he was feeling, so if he didn't feel like "talking," I would drop it, and come back to it later. Since my son was very verbal, and his inability to talk was an intermittent thing, sometimes the multiple choice questions led to him wanting to talk. If he was shutting down, though, I knew he wasn't ready to communicate yet.

It sounds like the school is really trying to work with you, and that's a really good thing.



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04 Mar 2011, 9:43 pm

jat wrote:
Meghan wrote:
I would love to ask him if something bothers him in there, but unfortunately he is very speech delayed and would never be able to communicate to me that there was a problem.

Is your son's speech delay receptive, productive, or both? If his receptive language is pretty good, you can probably still get a lot of information from him by using "multiple choice" questions with him. I used to do this a lot with my son, when he was younger, because he would get mute when he was upset. I would ask him questions (gently - never like an interrogation), and the last choice was always "none of the above," so if I hadn't thought of the "right" answer, my son was able to tell me that.

It sounds like the school is really trying to work with you, and that's a really good thing.

Thanks for sharing, it's a really interesting way to get your child to use productive speech.



Meghan
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05 Mar 2011, 7:07 am

misstippy - that rocking chair idea is great! They've tried bringing in regular chairs and that helped the first day but then it stopped working. The kids are allowed to get their own book off the shelf and look at it while the teachers are reading...occassionally he will do that but doesn't look at it for long. I'll see if they will let him try bringing in a small toy to play with in there, that may be helpful.

My son's speech is behind in both productive and receptive. Receptive is better than productive though for sure. It's been 5 months since we had an assessment done though and we're doing one in the next few weeks, so we'll see what it's at now. He does love multiple choice questions, so that's a really good idea! He gets so excited when you give him any kind of choice to make, but then it takes him a million years to choose lol! Just like his mom in indecisiveness I guess haha!

My husband just made a really good point about the problems in the story room....which is, that the first few days he went in there and he was probably really excited by all the cupboards and things to check out in the room. Then maybe it became his "routine" in that room...Does that make sense? That's the routine when he enters that room. He opens cupboards, wanders around, distracts the other kids. I'm thinking now that it's a strong possibility. I'm going to have to ask the teachers if they see a pattern in his actions once he's in that room. Such as, does he open cupboards always first? Then move on to disrupting kids etc.



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05 Mar 2011, 10:17 am

Here are my few things to ponder:

What was snack? Is there an imact from the food? (Too much, too little, wrong choice so still hungry, so great that he can't transition from it....)

Is he just done with doing what he's supposed to? These are long days for our little ones...... Can it be that the day is longer than he can manage for doing just the right thing?

This is one that we have that I didn't figure out for the longest time.... Is there a toileting issue connected? Does he need to go to the bathroom? My son does not like to have BMs, especially in public. He will hold it until it is not possible to hold it anymore. During that time when he's holding it OR has had an accident he is not able to focus and much more prone to melt down. He does not have an awareness that he's doing this - I figured it out by calendaring all of his meltdowns. I realize that you aren't dealing with meltdowns, we weren't either @ pre school. Looking back, this has been an issue since then, we just didn't figure it out until it was at the meltdown phase.



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05 Mar 2011, 10:31 am

Meghan wrote:
My husband just made a really good point about the problems in the story room....which is, that the first few days he went in there and he was probably really excited by all the cupboards and things to check out in the room. Then maybe it became his "routine" in that room...Does that make sense? That's the routine when he enters that room. He opens cupboards, wanders around, distracts the other kids. I'm thinking now that it's a strong possibility. I'm going to have to ask the teachers if they see a pattern in his actions once he's in that room. Such as, does he open cupboards always first? Then move on to disrupting kids etc.


Is it possible for someone to take him to the room 5 minutes earlier than the class so he can get the compulsion out? Maybe see if they can get him settled before the kids come in. If he's using the same pattern repeatedly, it might be a suggestion of OCD but there is a good chance you would have seen signs of that at home all ready as well.

I also think the rocking chair idea is wonderful.



angelbear
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05 Mar 2011, 4:17 pm

I think your husband's theory is good.



cyberdad
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05 Mar 2011, 6:15 pm

draelynn wrote:
Meghan wrote:
Is it possible for someone to take him to the room 5 minutes earlier than the class so he can get the compulsion out? Maybe see if they can get him settled before the kids come in. If he's using the same pattern repeatedly, it might be a suggestion of OCD but there is a good chance you would have seen signs of that at home all ready as well.

I also think the rocking chair idea is wonderful.

In my daughters school there are a few children with ASD so as part of their new building program housing the primary school aged kids will include a sensory retreat room open to all students but perfect for autistic kids where there is no distracting posters, books or cupboards to stimulate kids, this works for kids who are hyperactive and have ADHD. In addition the room is perfect for speech therapy sessions. As a retreat it's only meant to be used for temporary sensory overload reduction and not meant to be a permanent place for these kids otherwise it's like a padded cell.



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05 Mar 2011, 9:20 pm

jat wrote:
HThis may be an obvious question, but ... have you asked him? Sometimes, we forget the most obvious approach, and our kids often have lots of information that they don't give us because we don't ask. If you ask him why he doesn't stay in his seat, and whether there's anything about the room that makes it hard for him to pay attention during circle time, he might have a lot to say!

Also, please note that it also matters how you ask. Consider the difference in: "is there a reason you get up and walk around during story time?" versus "WHY are you CONSTANTLY getting up and walking around when EVERYONE ELSE sits and LISTENS?". And make sure you accept "I don't know", "no reason", or a confused look as proper answers. An aspie child cannot explain his stims (and the walking around could easily be a stim) any more easily than an NT can explain how he knows the right moment to look someone in the eyes when saying hi. I lost count of how many times, as a child, when an adult asked me a question, it was not an information request at all, but a rhetorical question designed to make me look bad and give them a foolproof excuse to punish me. Now, I'm pretty sure that you already know this, but far too many times, NT adults ask a child a question not as an information request, but as a discipline tactic. So I thought all this needed to be said.



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05 Mar 2011, 10:32 pm

Aspie1 wrote:
[quote="jat", NT adults ask a child a question not as an information request, but as a discipline tactic. So I thought all this needed to be said.

Despite the belief many people on the spectrum have they are on the wrong planet, the reality is they live on a earth where NTs (rightly or wrongly) control society.
The NT world is deliberately competitive, Darwinian law applies and only the strongest are selected for responsibility in the society and the weakest links are carried for compassionate and ethical reasons (unless perhaps you live in the third world).

Parents of autistic children will not live forever and have a duty of care to pass on as much survival advice and teaching as possible. If it appears we are disciplining you we do it for what we believe is good intentions. In my case if I pass away I would want my daughter to be as independent as possible and not dependent on the charity of strangers or family.