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swbluto
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 10:28 pm    Post subject: Weird Boring Friendless Pedantic Nerdy NT = Aspie? Reply with quote

Is a weird boring friendless pedantic nerdy NT functionally equivalent to someone with aspergers? If not, what sets them apart? What kind of "ceiling" on their social ability and socioeconomic status do they realistically have in comparison to that of someone with aspergers?

How can you tell you're of the former and not the latter?
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pat2rome
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can't tell unless you get to some of the reasoning behind the behavior; that's why clinical assessments aren't just the psychologist observing you.
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say people with AS would have sensory issues, the boring NT would have turned that way over time, while people are born with AS, and boring NTs have a fundamental understanding of social rules while someone with AS doesn't, though neither acts socially "normal".

On the outside though, I guess there wouldn't really be any difference.
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AllieKat
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's my two cents on this one:

Usually the NT can read the other person's nonverbal cues way better than the Aspie. An pedantic, weird, and "nerdy" NT will probably intuitively understand that someone saying "uh-huh" means they're not interested in hearing more and they are also more likely to recognize a "bored" look but not really care. They are also more likely to be able to control themselves where it matters (e.g. in a classroom or at work vs. when out and about with others)

The Aspie is more likely to miss those cues all together unless the have intellectually learned what the "I'm not interested" cues are and are more likely to show those same behaviors at school and at work than the pedantic, weird, and nerdy NT.


Last edited by AllieKat on Tue May 03, 2011 1:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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rabidmonkey4262
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a theory that many people "become" nerds as a way to replace stimulation from social interaction. If you have no social intuition and you have failed to understand the ambiguous hows, whens, and whats of humanity, then you might as well do something that makes concrete sense as a way to kinda fill the void. From personal experience, my sociability is inversely related to my nerdy productivity. On the rare occasion when I am sociable, info-hoarding decreases.

However, I have met plenty of highly social nerds at my music school. Classical music and theater nerds are extremely social with one another, but I only know two who are confirmed aspies. All the others that went to my school were definitely just nerdy neurotypicals. You could easily tell the difference because the few aspies could only talk about music and never went to the music school parties, whereas the majority of the nerds could bring in more diverse aspects of social functioning. I went to music school under the misconception that I would finally fit in. I found out that I couldn't even relate to the other nerds, so that's how I confirmed I was an aspie.

Then of course, you have the somatic differences. If you feel you need to dress a certain way to really be comfortable, or if you can't concentrate with even the slightest bit of random noise, that might be a good clue that you're an aspie. Aspies also seem to get remarks on the characteristic "spacey look." People have thought I was high, others have described my look as "deer in the headlights." You can experiment with eye contact to see how well you can function. Most aspies won't be able to sustain eye contact while processing verbal information or talking.

I wouldn't say there's a specified "ceiling" on socioeconomic status. I actually know a millionaire who is definitely an undiagnosed aspie. He was the jingle writer for McDonald's and Kit-Kat and he has some of the worst conversational skills I have ever seen, even for an aspie.
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bee33
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoever said that Aspies were boring?
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AllieKat wrote:
Here's my two cents on this one:

Usually the NT can ready the other person's nonverbal cues way better than the Aspie. An pedantic, weird, and "nerdy" NT will probably intuitively understand that someone saying "uh-huh" means they're not interested in hearing more and they are also more likely to recognize a "bored" look but not really care. They are also more likely to be able to control themselves where it matters (e.g. in a classroom or at work vs. when out and about with others)

The Aspie is more likely to miss those cues all together unless the have intellectually learned what the "I'm not interested" cues are and are more likely to show those same behaviors at school and at work than the pedantic, weird, and nerdy NT.


I entirely agree with this. This is why I've concluded that I'm an aspie and not just a weird, boring, friendless, pedantic, nerdy NT. If I was the nerdy NT (as I used to think I was most of my life), I should have been able to learn from my social mistakes when I took time to analyze what happened. In my case, however, I was missing a vital piece which invalidated my results: Asperger's. In other words, it's that inability to understand my social mistakes that draws the line between nerdy NT and aspie.
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ OP

The NT likely wasn't that way all of his or her life. The AS was.

The NT can also change their personality and likely wouldn't have any of the other quirks of autism, like sensory issues.
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bee33 wrote:
Whoever said that Aspies were boring?


Monotone = boring in real life.

Only does something as wondrous as the internet give justice to their insightful, interesting and unique thought processes.


Last edited by swbluto on Tue May 03, 2011 1:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conspicuous wrote:
AllieKat wrote:
Here's my two cents on this one:

Usually the NT can ready the other person's nonverbal cues way better than the Aspie. An pedantic, weird, and "nerdy" NT will probably intuitively understand that someone saying "uh-huh" means they're not interested in hearing more and they are also more likely to recognize a "bored" look but not really care. They are also more likely to be able to control themselves where it matters (e.g. in a classroom or at work vs. when out and about with others)

The Aspie is more likely to miss those cues all together unless the have intellectually learned what the "I'm not interested" cues are and are more likely to show those same behaviors at school and at work than the pedantic, weird, and nerdy NT.


I entirely agree with this. This is why I've concluded that I'm an aspie and not just a weird, boring, friendless, pedantic, nerdy NT. If I was the nerdy NT (as I used to think I was most of my life), I should have been able to learn from my social mistakes when I took time to analyze what happened. In my case, however, I was missing a vital piece which invalidated my results: Asperger's. In other words, it's that inability to understand my social mistakes that draws the line between nerdy NT and aspie.


Laughing

You jump to conclusions so easily. "You should've been able to learn from your social mistakes when you took the time to analyze it" could be an issue entirely due to lack of social insight, and not necessarily due to aspergers. Just because you're an NT doesn't mean you're all of a sudden a social genius -- there are plenty of NTs out there who don't "get it", sometimes, and then they turn to friends to figure it out, if they have them and not every NT has friends. These types are usually called dorks and dweebs, and there's some overlap with nerds. (And, "music nerds" don't really strike me as the "socially awkward" type of nerds I'm thinking of. I'm thinking along the lines of math, science and engineering nerds. And we're talking HARDCORE nerds, not the social ones.)


Last edited by swbluto on Tue May 03, 2011 1:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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bee33
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swbluto wrote:
bee33 wrote:
Whoever said that Aspies were boring?


Monotone = boring.

People can say pretty fascinating things even in a monotone voice. Some people are charmed by long speeches... Wink
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swbluto
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bee33 wrote:
swbluto wrote:
bee33 wrote:
Whoever said that Aspies were boring?


Monotone = boring.

People can say pretty fascinating things even in a monotone voice. Some people are charmed by long speeches... Wink


Assuming these aspies say fascinating things. I don't know about you, but my peers don't find anything fascinating about Hawking Radiation and the role of virtual photons and quantum fluctuations in a blackhole's evaporation.
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Conspicuous
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swbluto wrote:
You jump to conclusions so easily. "You should've been able to learn from your social mistakes when you took the time to analyze it" could be an issue entirely due to lack of social insight, and not necessarily due to aspergers. Just because you're an NT doesn't mean you're all of a sudden a social genius -- there are plenty of NTs out there who don't "get it", sometimes, and then they turn to friends to figure it out, if they have them and not every NT has friends. These types are usually called dorks and dweebs, and there's some overlap with nerds. (And, "music nerds" don't really strike me as the "socially awkward" type of nerds I'm thinking of. I'm thinking along the lines of math, science and engineering nerds. And we're talking HARDCORE nerds, not the social ones.)


You have a good point; some NTs also have problems socializing. They can find themselves unable to cope in a social situation and unable to understand what they did wrong. However, I think the aspie's lack of ability is far more pronounced.

As with most facets of Asperger's, it's a matter of degree and a matter of a system of "quirks," if you will. There is no definite line between NT and aspie that can be conclusively drawn. Rather, it's an analysis and culmination of a series of quirks that would make one conclude AS.

Also, if it helps, I went to an engineering college where nearly everyone was a hardcore nerd by your definition. I was essentially an outcast there, too.
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Conspicuous
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swbluto wrote:
bee33 wrote:
swbluto wrote:
bee33 wrote:
Whoever said that Aspies were boring?


Monotone = boring.

People can say pretty fascinating things even in a monotone voice. Some people are charmed by long speeches... Wink


Assuming these aspies say fascinating things. I don't know about you, but my peers don't find anything fascinating about Hawking Radiation and the role of virtual photons and quantum fluctuations in a blackhole's evaporation.


You should perhaps consider switching careers to that of a physicist.
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swbluto
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conspicuous wrote:
Also, if it helps, I went to an engineering college where nearly everyone was a hardcore nerd by your definition. I was essentially an outcast there, too.


I wonder how many other people at the engineering college would consider themselves outcasts, as well. Clearly only a small subset could actually possess aspergers, statistically speaking, though that sub-group probably would possess high expressions of autistic traits.

Also, do you think insufficient verbal memory would have anything to do with it? Or, can you think of any clear counter-examples, like the verbal idiot who had no problems with socializing? I suppose guys who exclusively talked in the gangster vernacular would be considered verbal idiots, yo, though that type might not have existed at your college (Where there might have been a significantly higher than average mean SAT score.).

However, I was at a university where the SAT average was 1200, and there were still a sizable amount of ghetto-gangster types who had no problem with socialization, and not all of them were exactly what I would consider verbally-memory perfect (Which has to be the case, because the correlation between verbal memory and IQ is somewhere around .6, meaning there's going to be a sizable amount of people with low verbal memory where the average verbal IQ is around 110-115. However, maybe severe verbal memory deficits would cause aspergian-esque social difficulties?).
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