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ChinaCatSunflower
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:30 pm    Post subject: Metaphysical / spiritual side of Aspergers / autism Reply with quote

I have always felt like a little meditator, like a little modern Buddha, because I could pull myself back into my mind at almost any moment. It became much harder to do that as I got older. But I look back at pictures of me when I was a kid and, when everyone else sees one of the cutest little boys they've ever seen, I see a kid in an Aspergers-induced trance. I can see it in other young aspie kids too if I come across them (which is almost never). It's almost haunting to spot one, they are so rare, and remind me so much of me. I don't know if all aspie kids have those moments, or if perhaps it is more indicative of experiences deeper into the autistic spectrum. But I have read quite a bit about Aspergers and high functioning autism and have not found much about that trance-like meditative state of Nirvana that some aspie kids live in when they are young. Before I entered the school system, I would find a perch, much like a cat would go sit on a high shelf or step or the top of a cabinet, and sit and observe what is going on in the room but remain in my own thoughts, almost like living in my own mind, only a spectator at times as far as whatever was going on in the room I was in. Has anyone else ever had those experiences? I wonder how common or rare it is. And why is so little ever written about that in literature about Aspergers/autism? Those early years when I got to live inside my own mind were very magical and beautiful and amazing years, full of discoveries that surpassed anything I learned from 12 years in the institutions. Nights I spent sitting in a window sill watching rain storms when I was 4 or 5, hours and hours of looking out at huge summertime thunderstorms in the middle of the night, two blocks from the Mississippi River (where we lived at that time) and feeling the barometric pressure drop and that ionic change in the atmosphere that feels so refreshing. I spent so many amazing nights there as a kid, literally living in my mind, staring out at the rainstorm with that blissful aspie expression on my face. Those were some of the best memories of my life.
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ChrisVulcan
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've noticed a definite connection between neurodiversity and the metaphysical (or spiritual, or supernatural, or if you like, preternatural, or paranormal).

I knew an aspie (?) woman who as a child could sense when a person or animal was dead or near death. She also sometimes had "good" or "bad" feelings about places. I believe that she was sensing some element of a spiritual dimension that had crossed over into our part of reality.

I know of a profoundly gifted (possibly aspie) kid who heard the voice of his dead brother. I believe it said, in this slow, very croaky voice: "I love you, Sam." Or if it will transfer to text:
"iiiii... lllove... yyyoooouuuu... Ssssaaaammm."
Sam reportedly said, "I love you too" and ducked under the covers. (I changed their names, btw.)

My great-grandmother never liked her son to fly, which was a problem because he was a pilot. He died in a crash. At about the time of his death, she heard a voice say, "It got me this time Mom." I don't know if she was neurodiverse or not, however.

Thoughts?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I call BS, because that's exactly what that is.

But, I have to say, I really did enjoy the first years of my life before school. All I ever did was think about things, and to some extent, that's really all I still do, I'm just not quite as blissful about it anymore.
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metaphysics
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:11 pm    Post subject: Understanding Reply with quote

Your definition of metaphysics seems rather different from mine....

Do you think meditation itself is an Aspergers-induced trance? Is it narrow? I don't think all sages have aspergers..Curious about your definition on AS.

I am sorry for if I offended you Sad

I have similar experience, anyway.But my medition is not as specific as you. I never think about real things. I think about how emotion formed.....


Quote:
And why is so little ever written about that in literature about Aspergers/autism?


Good point. I think it is probably because writers are indulgeing in themselves too much, instead of worrying about it, anxiety,etc. they just enjoy themselves or at least occupie themselves in thus. Instead of go to the doctor, diagnosised, etc....
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ChrisVulcan
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SammichEater wrote:
I call BS, because that's exactly what that is.

But, I have to say, I really did enjoy the first years of my life before school. All I ever did was think about things, and to some extent, that's really all I still do, I'm just not quite as blissful about it anymore.


Are you talking to me or the original poster?

If you're responding to me, then I am telling the truth. I don't have any proof to back it up though, so I don't blame you for not believing it.
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Well, I was on my way to this gay gypsy bar mitzvah for the disabled when I suddenly thought, "Gosh, the Third Reich's a bit rubbish. I think I'll kill the Fuhrer." Who's with me?

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ChinaCatSunflower
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Understanding Reply with quote

metaphysics wrote:
Your definition of metaphysics seems rather different from mine....

Do you think meditation itself is an Aspergers-induced trance? Is it narrow? I don't think all sages have aspergers..Curious about your definition on AS.


What might have appeared to be an Aspergers-induced trance was usually a vast universe of discovery for me as a kid. I think meditation can be different things for different people. But for me there was nothing more enlightening than the times I would spend with my eyes not focused on anything, lost in my own mind.

I think the definition of Aspergers Syndrome and what it means for each individual who has it is probably just as varied as the definitions of meditation. But for some of us, Aspergers Syndrome can lead to some amazing thoughts and a very peaceful state of mind.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SammichEater wrote:
I call BS, because that's exactly what that is.

I'll notch that down a little and simply ask for evidence that assuming a "Metaphysical" cause is actually valid.

I mean, if there really is valid evidence, then I want to examine it; but by "evidence" I mean something aside from a few anecdotes and testimonials, a mere statement of belief, or yet another attack on me for even doubting that metaphysical claims are valid. By "valid", I mean objectively testable.

@OP: So ... Evidence, please?
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syrella
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a kid, I spent most of my time feeling like a quiet observer. I don't think I ever compared my state to a trance, but it might have looked like that from the outside. My mind was usually quite active. For me, I was just always more interested in watching the world than I was in participating in it. I almost always experience a feeling of detachment from the world. I can be amazed by the world and can think it's a very fascinating place, but still, I often as though I am looking at the world through a window... like I can't really be a part of it. All the same, I do my best to experience life for what it's worth.
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ChinaCatSunflower
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fnord wrote:
I mean, if there really is valid evidence, then I want to examine it; but by "evidence" I mean something aside from a few anecdotes and testimonials, a mere statement of belief, or yet another attack on me for even doubting that metaphysical claims are valid.


I'm not asking you to believe that Aspergers Syndrome can have metaphysical experiences. I'm informing you that it can include such experiences because I have had them. Sorry if that is too anecdotal for you, but the way it stands very little is yet understood about Aspergers and much of the information about it still exists only as anecdotes. They don't even have a good definition of what it is and in the next DSM it is all changing. That's why we come here on these forums and share our anecdotes about it. And no one is attacking you; you are free to doubt whatever you read here.
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ChinaCatSunflower
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

syrella wrote:
I don't think I ever compared my state to a trance, but it might have looked like that from the outside. My mind was usually quite active. For me, I was just always more interested in watching the world than I was in participating in it. I almost always experience a feeling of detachment from the world.


I don't think I ever thought of it as a trance when I was young either, but I bet it seemed like that sometimes. I always felt a detachment from the world too, and chose to observe more than participate. When I was in school, I became aware at a young age that I lived in my own mind and only paid as much attention to the room I was in as I needed to. My focus of attention was on my thoughts primarily whereas everybody else's focus of attention was on whatever was going on in the room or whatever social setting we were in. I could never understand why others didn't seem to have that ability too. And now that I've taught myself not to be that way, I find that I miss it and want to learn how to be more that way again.
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cyberdad
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fnord wrote:
SammichEater wrote:
I call BS, because that's exactly what that is.

I'll notch that down a little and simply ask for evidence that assuming a "Metaphysical" cause is actually valid.
I mean, if there really is valid evidence, then I want to examine it; but by "evidence" I mean something aside from a few anecdotes and testimonials, a mere statement of belief, or yet another attack on me for even doubting that metaphysical claims are valid. By "valid", I mean objectively testable.@OP: So ... Evidence, please?


I'm sure there is plenty of anecdotal evidence of the metaphysical however it's unlikely we will be able to ask a ghost or spirit to show up on cue for your benefit.
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cyberdad
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:53 am    Post subject: Re: Metaphysical / spiritual side of Aspergers / autism Reply with quote

ChinaCatSunflower wrote:
I see a kid in an Aspergers-induced trance. I can see it in other young aspie kids


I think your post is really quite interesting. I often watch my daughter and recall I used to do exactly the same thing when I was her age, staring into space in a trance. It is very auto-meditative and therapeutic so agree 100% in that regard.
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Fnord
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChinaCatSunflower wrote:
I'm not asking you to believe that Aspergers Syndrome can have metaphysical experiences. I'm informing you that it can include such experiences because I have had them. Sorry if that is too anecdotal for you...

Not only is it anecdotal, but it is merely correlative, and not causative. Therefore, it has no meaning.
ChinaCatSunflower wrote:
... but the way it stands very little is yet understood about Aspergers and much of the information about it still exists only as anecdotes.

In other words, "We don't understand it, so it must be metaphysical". That's called arguing from ignorance.
ChinaCatSunflower wrote:
They don't even have a good definition of what it is and in the next DSM it is all changing. That's why we come here on these forums and share our anecdotes about it.

Then why not share relevant anecdotes, instead of just assuming that AS and Metaphysics are somehow related? Look up "Indigo Children" sometime for an example of irrelevant assumptions gone mad.
ChinaCatSunflower wrote:
And no one is attacking you; you are free to doubt whatever you read here.

No one is attacking yet ... then again, no one is claiming to offer any valid proof, either.
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Fnord
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cyberdad wrote:
... it's unlikely we will be able to ask a ghost or spirit to show up on cue ...

Because they don't exist.
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ToughDiamond
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Must confess I find it an attractive idea that AS is somehow correlated with a higher spiritual state. I don't claim to be able to prove it......just that I've heard autism was revered in some societies, and we are kind of separate from the common herd, which would leave us wide open to the kind of mystical influences that the mainstream just hasn't time for......if we take an interest in the mystical, we'll probably do a thorough job.

I always did feel kind of magical.
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