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LovesMoose
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25 Aug 2011, 2:39 am

Welcome to Straight Talk for Women. Together we're compiling some questions to address in this thread for older women on the spectrum. As these questions begin to solidify, I'll be sure to edit this post and list them here. There will probably be less than ten questions so that we can keep things focused and specific to this population of women. Below the questions you'll find my original post that started this thread. Thanks!

---------------------------------

1) Social interactions - What have you noticed about your ability to interact with others throughout the years? Whether or not you're on the spectrum, the ability to comfortably (and some might even say "successfully") socialize generally happens organically as we age. But for those of us who are on the spectrum, this organic process can be considerably more awkward and often requires years of focused practice. What has this experience been like for you, and where are you at with this process right now?

2)

3)

4)

5)

---------------------------------

My name is Carla, and this is my first day as a Wrong Planet participant, although I've been hanging out on the sidelines for quite some time now. Something I've been noticing here is a lack of a more spectrum-focused discussion for women. I am certainly appreciative of the numerous discussion topics that cover things like relationships and dating, how to make friends, and requests for feedback when personal problems arise. But what I'm needing is some intellectual companionship and note sharing in terms of how Aspergers is revealing/displaying itself as we grow older.

Next month is my 41st birthday. While I am grateful for our community's new female blogger (her posts are fun and insightful and something I look forward to reading), I would welcome the opportunity to tackle a sector of the Aspergers population that seems to be rarely addressed. So here it is for your consideration: What would you like to see here in the forums for this unique group of women? What is underrepresented and how does it make you feel? Would you welcome ongoing blog posts, for example, that have a more mature (as in age) focus?

You don't know anything about me yet other than my age, but this much I can tell you before I hit the hay (it's after midnight here in California; how did that happen?): I'm self-identified as having Aspergers; I have never been married and all of my children have fur and paws; my family is in denial about my Aspergers, although when I showed them sections of my twenty-page list of experiences, patterns, and symptomatic behaviors (based on two years of research and graduate studies in special education), they became very quiet, looked away, and then my mother said, "Stop being so darn sensitive. Everyone has struggles and stories to tell."

Ugh.

Anyway, I welcome your thoughts on how we might carve out a niche for ourselves in this forum. I'm not all that keen on typical "girl talk" and would much rather lightly touch on those things as a means for exploring Aspergers from a more intellectual and focused viewpoint. So, what do you think? And by the way, men are always welcome to contribute.

Thanks so much for reading this . . .

Carla



Last edited by LovesMoose on 29 Aug 2011, 7:34 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Ai_Ling
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25 Aug 2011, 3:34 am

I dont have an answer for your direct question.

LovesMoose wrote:
Everyone has struggles and stories to tell." Ugh.


I do however can relate to your comment. Ive been told that before. I dont think NTs really see what we go thru sometimes even the people who your close to dont get it. My mom is only starting to get it, and it took her 4 yrs.

I dont know about other people but since Im a mild aspie. Many of my problems are technically relate able to NTs, there just more severe and life encompassing. So when I b***h, NTs try to "normalize" my problems. And then I act in a way which is displeasing to them, and they want me to control myself, think about my actions more. So their trying to tell me, we all go thru the same thing yet when they see things they dont like, they dont see why i cant control myself and my actions. And then they accuse me about not trying hard enough.

You know before I got diagnosed, the biggest BS that came out of my moms mouth was. 1/2 of the pop is introverted, so they all go thru same thing.



Lucywlf
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25 Aug 2011, 5:27 am

Ever consider that your mother may be Aspergers too? Mine is. It explains just about everything about her that I like and don't like. She, like another blogger here, thinks picking up on emotion is telepathy, science fiction stuff. However, up to recently, she would have never admitted anything at all was wrong with her.

She was the one who always told me to "straighten up", control myself, think before I speak, think of how others feel, etcetera. I think that she was pressured to do the same as a child because she was the oldest, the one who was supposed to set an example for younger siblings; the oldest female traditionally got all kinds of responsibilities too, especially when the mother isn't at home. They had to be the strong ones.

I think Aspergers-type women were always discriminated against by society. A woman had to have the right level of emotion and empathy to be considered "feminine" while being out of control was simply not tolerated, except in terms of crying, which is unacceptable now. The "special interest" had to be typically feminine too, for a woman to be seen as natural.

As for myself, I have a lot of trouble controlling my emotions and was called selfish and manipulative ("spoiled") even when I knew I wasn't trying to be. I was told I did not handle pressure well, though at times I could handle a high pressure task withotu turning a hair. I was also called inconsistent.



mv
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25 Aug 2011, 6:55 am

Hello, and welcome! It's good to see another "middle-ager" (I'm 43, soon to be 44). I can relate to what you've said. I, too, have a family in denial, including a mother who's taken great care to cover up all of her own Aspergers tendencies. I can't really fault her choices, looking at the family she grew up in, but it is personally annoying and frustrating.

I think that I find myself amused, more than anything, when I read a lot of the threads on here. I'm not making fun of people or making light of their pain; it's more like I remember back to the time when I had their same struggles (but of course we didn't have a diagnosis or even a working context, and we didn't have the internet). I would love to see more topics about and by women in their 30's and 40's and older. By and large I get a sense that the older women have found themselves in family units in one way or another, which is great; I would love to hear more from women like me who have found solitude to be more practical for their temperaments (though I don't suppose they'd be posting here in droves :wink: ).

I am self-diagnosed, too; I don't let the naysayers tell me otherwise. This diagnosis is the only thing that gives me peace, gives me a complete, meaningful framework in which to examine all my life experiences and choices.

Welcome, again! We do have some fabulous middle-ager women here, you'll see them come out from time to time (some more than others), I think you'll feel right at home among them, in this sea of youth.

ETA: Lucywlf, your post made me feel so eerie, it was like I could have written it. Are you me, when I'm supposedly sleeping? :wink:



Mummy_of_Peanut
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25 Aug 2011, 7:59 am

Hi

I joined WP as mum of a probable Aspie and soon came to realise that I also fit the bill too. I always knew I was different, struggled with supposedly easy things and found supposedly difficult things a dawdle. I'm very emotional and sensitive and also consider myself to be an HSP. I feel at home and welcome here on WP, but sometimes I too would like to see threads more relevant to a woman of my age (38) and life experience. There are a lot of angry young men here and although I sympathise and empathise with some of their experiences, I've moved on somewhat from that mindset and I worry that I can't advise them.

My family are not in denial at all. The focus of our discussions about Aspergers is my daughter, of course. However, my mum regularly points out things that she also did as a child. On the surface, my mum is quite a confident person, but there have been many incidents that have caused me to wonder what's going on with her, now it makes sense. My daughter is very like me too, but she never does a thing she's told and I always did. My parents really worry about me being able to cope. But, they've always seen me as the perfect daughter, nonetheless. I did well at school then went to uni and never got into any trouble. It never occurred to them that I had severe social issues and that the bullying was unrelenting.

Here's to a few more threads like this one.

Cheerio



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25 Aug 2011, 9:23 am

um I was diagnonsed in my thirties. It explained a lot of things. I will be 40 this year. I would love to have a forum for older women. Mainly my struggles are social relationships in the community with nt women. I find the older I get the more I relate to males. I did not have any female friends until I was in about third grade. I find I have nothing in common with most women I encounter(not online). It seems to trouble me. The book Women from Another Planet made me feel more validated as female. I just wonder if other women have the same problem finding female friends in their community.


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LovesMoose
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25 Aug 2011, 12:20 pm

Yes, I just wrote "awesomeness" . . . gotta love the 80s. :D

When I woke up this morning I felt some apprehension about this thread. Would anyone reply? Am I once again a lone ranger trying to forge my way into new territory? But heck to the no . . . you ladies have made my day!! ! What a lovely treat finding such heart warming replies. So I finally have some friends, eh? If you were to meet me in person (I'm hoping to post some YouTube videos soon via my website . . . when it's launched), you might not recognize Aspergers. But it's there and even though the edges have softened over the years (which is inevitable; we learn, we grow, we adapt to a certain degree), I'm finding tremendous peace in knowing that I belong somewhere.

About suggestions that my mother might have Aspergers, I'm certain she doesn't. It's my father who is blatantly on the spectrum, and more on the Autism side of things. It pains me that I didn't discover this until recently. All these decades and frustrating experiences with him, and there he was, undiagnosed and misunderstood just like me. There's a forum elsewhere packed full of mostly anonymous posts from people on the spectrum. The one that touched me the most was posted by a 65-year old man who simply wrote, "I have led a very lonely life and it's too late to do anything about it."

I don't want to be like that. I want family and friends and financial stability. That's why I'm here and why I'm especially wanting to reach out to older women. I see myself as a mentor and look forward to reaching out to younger women on the spectrum here in these forums. But I also want a place just for me and hope that my voice will contribute to our unfolding story and give us a place to share and grow. Wouldn't that be awesome?

Have a fabulous day, ladies . . .

Carla



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25 Aug 2011, 12:55 pm

Hi Carla ... welcome to the zoo ... :)


LovesMoose wrote:
Would you welcome ongoing blog posts, for example, that have a more mature (as in age) focus?


Definitely! The younger women here have wonderful insights and I love reading their posts, but I would definitely welcome topics that focus on older women.

Quote:
my family is in denial about my Aspergers, although when I showed them sections of my twenty-page list of experiences, patterns, and symptomatic behaviors (based on two years of research and graduate studies in special education), they became very quiet, looked away


This is why I'm extremely reluctant to tell people about my AS, even those in my extended family. I can literally count on one hand the people (other than my children and ex-husband) who know about it.



LovesMoose
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25 Aug 2011, 1:07 pm

It seems that most adults choose not to tell people about Aspergers, and I can certainly relate. But for me I am finding merit in sharing this with others. Also, I want to play a role in expanding how professionals in this field view the "mild" end of the spectrum. That sector of the spectrum is fuzzy. As a highly visual thinker, I always see a rainbow in my mind when I think about this. The outer most colors aren't solid blocks but gradually dissipate as more and more light comes through. But that vapor is still very much a part of the rainbow. That's kind of a fluffy way to describe things, but that's exactly what I see whenever I think about that side of the spectrum.

So I'm jumping off the plank and fully embracing this new life as an "out of the closet" female adult with Aspergers. I want to give the research community something to think about, because I'm increasingly finding that what they view as being mild is in fact more moderate in terms of how Aspergers and Autism reveals itself in people's lives. Mild is misunderstood and mislabeled. But we do need to be very careful when we freely label others and attempt to place them on the spectrum. That's where things get fuzzy and I think it does a disservice to our community when we attempt to attach labels to behaviors and make assumptions.

Again, lots to think about and lots to discuss.

Carla



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25 Aug 2011, 5:35 pm

I made the mistake of telling my children's Autism teachers I was on the spectrum too. They were nice enough, but the next day nearly all the teachers and staff I passed in the school were watching me as if I were a specimin under a microscope. Wow. Big mistake.

My parents agree that "there must be something wrong with the entire family." I don't think there is a one of us who doesn't display some Aspie traits. I can pick out the hardcore Aspies very easily now.

And I, too, am glad to meet others who see things the way I do. I'm quite amazed!



safffron
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26 Aug 2011, 7:07 am

Thanks for starting this thread, Carla. It's great to be among women who get it. Finally. I'm 51 and self diagnosed. There have been plenty of tears, anger, and relief. Sometimes I feel like I'm mourning a life that went unlived in certain respects, though I no longer expect others to understand why. I've been openly pitied for not reaching my potential. not marrying, not having children, etc. "You're so ___, I don't understand why you don't have ___ or you didn't do ___."

Please.

I only wish that someone had seen this in me ages ago, like when I was in therapy for anxiety and depression. Even a psychotherapist friend laughed it off when I announced that I might have AS. He doesn't know how exhausting it is to be an actress - it's been the role of an entire lifetime.

Now I want to live well and abundantly, just like I'd always intended to, even as a solo act.



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26 Aug 2011, 7:22 am

safffron wrote:
Thanks for starting this thread, Carla. It's great to be among women who get it. Finally. I'm 51 and self diagnosed. There have been plenty of tears, anger, and relief. Sometimes I feel like I'm mourning a life that went unlived in certain respects, though I no longer expect others to understand why. I've been openly pitied for not reaching my potential. not marrying, not having children, etc. "You're so ___, I don't understand why you don't have ___ or you didn't do ___."

Please.

I only wish that someone had seen this in me ages ago, like when I was in therapy for anxiety and depression. Even a psychotherapist friend laughed it off when I announced that I might have AS. He doesn't know how exhausting it is to be an actress - it's been the role of an entire lifetime.

Now I want to live well and abundantly, just like I'd always intended to, even as a solo act.


This had me tearing up, so much resonated with me. Thank you, safffron, for putting it so well!

P.S. At least we can always fall back on our acting skills, right? :wink:



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26 Aug 2011, 7:50 am

I feel like I've been waiting for my life to start and worried that it will never happen, although I'm married with a child, so that bit's sorted. I stated earlier in this thread that I also consider myself to be an HSP and, having read many posts on WP, I think there are many who also fit that description, especially amongst us older ladies. In a book that I read about this, HSPs come into their own once they mature and mellow (and stop the act, I'm fed up with all that, it's exhausting). In their late 30s and beyond, they start successful careers as writers, artists, teachers, anything really, after half a lifetime of feeling in the wrong place or wrong time and not fulfilling their potential. I hope this is me.



LovesMoose
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26 Aug 2011, 12:03 pm

Yesterday was a rough day at work. Many of the people I work with are almost half my age. They easily adjust to the constant fine tuning of how we manage our work, new practices, unexpected situations, etc. But these are things that I often struggle with, and yesterday was no exception. It was just one thing after the next and I had such a difficult time finding my groove. Most of the time I manage to decently blend, but they all know I'm different and on days like yesterday I just felt plain stupid and constantly annoyed and frustrated.

The older I get, though, the less I feel consumed by my differences, and that's why I started this thread and am boldly reaching out and starting to write about Aspergers and older women. Like some of you have written, we want to come into our own, to feel centered and safe just as we are, but this has to be a conscious, daily practice to be able to manifest any benefits and realize gradual change and self-acceptance.

Sometime in the next few days I'm going to edit my original post and add a list of questions for women to address. This will help focus our discussion. The questions will be added to the bottom of that post. I'm thinking no more than seven for people to pick and choose from. Which questions do you feel can be asked that will help capture personal experiences specific to being an older (30s and older) woman on the spectrum? Anyone, of course, can participate.

Carla



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26 Aug 2011, 1:56 pm

hi, i'm 55 and have been married to a great guy who happens to be neurotypical for just over two years. one of my obssessions is understanding people. that has helped me outgrow (even if late) some of my aspergers tendencies.
a young relative was diagnosed a few months ago. i looked up the symptoms on webmd. they described me. although i developed early intellectually (read at college level in 8th grade), socially i've developed quite slowly.

i lost my medical license 15 years ago due to a dispute with a hospital over my overhonesty. i asked them to recruit better surgeons. they responded that i wasn't that good a doctor myself (though they tried for three years and could find no adverse outcomes among my patients) and that the suggestion was unprofessional and disruptive. they threw me off their staff, which the medical board took to mean i shouldn't be practicing.

i currently practice social work. i enjoy helping people (as i did in medicine). i have within the past few years developed the ability to small talk. i occasionally still catch myself staring at someone. i don't smile or laugh much, but if someone smiles at me, i make the effort to smile back. if i think something is funny, i at least say, "ha, ha." i keep tabs on the overhonesty by running important ideas past my husband before i get in over my head.

i've always had a few good friends, but have lost a number over the years with out knowing why. i had all sorts of rationalizations why my sister was more popular than me and why i wasn't married (too smart and successful - intimidating, too busy, too quiet).

as a kid, i was very, very obedient and religious, so although i had my odd moments, they never rose to the level of concern. i was obsessed with playing musical instruments - piano, violin, guitar and tuba and sang in the choir. only sport i was good at was swimming. i even learned the more complicated strokes of swimming behind my younger sister, which hurt my self-esteem. my lack of manual dexterity kept me from going into the music field and playing sports involving a ball.

when i have a strong emotion, i rub my hands together. my uncle saw that once and told my dad there was something wrong with me. it was never pursued. i guess unc was right.

i also have a serious mental illness (not uncommon with AS), but with my effective meds, i'm unbothered. no symptoms of that since 1995.

well, that's probably more than you want to know.


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LovesMoose
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26 Aug 2011, 2:30 pm

CathyLynn ~

That's exactly what I want to know, and I loved and appreciated everything you wrote. I never really considered overhonesty as something to think about, but that pretty much defines my life. I have the same exact issue, and even though there is always truth and merit in my honesty, apparently it's not a welcome trait. So thank you for writing about that in your post. I'm very grateful. I'll be thinking about that at work tonight.

Carla



Last edited by LovesMoose on 27 Aug 2011, 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.