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Bloodheart
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23 Dec 2011, 12:03 am

Looking for advice.

UK based unemployed for almost 4 years and on JSA.
I AM capable of working, however I'm limited and I can't use a phone.

Job centre previously forced me to apply for call centre work - refused to change this for almost two years, then when an advisor finally picked-up on this they decided this meant I wasn't following my job seekers agreement as I was applying for jobs I couldn't do, and because a requirement for JSA is phoning employers. The advisor deemed me mentally incapable of working, and changed my job seekers agreement to be as harsh as possible until she could kick me off JSA - she told me I had to apply for ESA.

I applied for ESA - this requires a phone call, job centre staff refused point-blank to help with this. Got onto ESA but failed the medical assessment, of course as there is no criteria or allowances for AS/ASD - as I thought ESA was only for people who cannot work I didn't appeal, and went back onto JSA. Job centre again made this hard by refusing to phone DWP to sort out problems with this - every time they seem to take pleasure in refusing to do this, they sneer at me and tell me I'll have to just get over it.

On JSA now - being forced to apply for shop work, unsuitable and doesn't offer enough hours (I need 35+ hours, shop work is 16 hours at most), the job centre knows that this means I'm not applying for enough jobs in order to maintain JSA, and as before due to problems using a phone I cannot maintain JSA requirements so they can kick me off at any time...they also make me apply for jobs that require a phone call, again knowing I can't but if I don't they can kick me off JSA for this too.

There have been various issues with the job centre to add to this, but this is the jist of the main problems as I see it. Every sign-on day is stressful, for several days before and after my sign-on day my AS 'symptoms' get significantly worse (insomnia, anti-social behaviour, meltdowns, social anxiety, self-harm, depression), and obviously if the job centre advisers decide to cause problems then this gets significantly worse. I'm honestly struggling to remain on JSA, both because I cannot realistically follow my job seekers agreement, and because mentally I just can't cope with this.

Everyone I've talked to about this say I should be on ESA - but I CAN work, so I don't think I can go onto ESA both in terms of passing medical assessments and because I'd feel bad for applying for a benefit like this...I know it's a problem with the benefits system, not me, but I'd still feel a little unethical for having to apply for ESA, even if it's the only reasonable option for me. On ESA it means no dealing with job centre staff, and in theory I may be able to approach disability charities for support to get myself back into work (no support on JSA).

I emailed NAS - they kept pushing the message of needing 15 points to get onto ESA, I wouldn't get this many points, but they also mentioned as neither JSA or ESA are suitable I could work on a 'cycle' - apply for ESA, go through appeal, and once I'm denied ESA on appeal go back on JSA until I can reapply for ESA. They say this isn't perfect, but it's what many people on the spectrum have to do due to failings in the system - I'm not sure, I can't handle the stress of JSA, but re-applying for ESA means the stress of trying to apply, the medical assessment (more now I know what they're like), appeal (not sure what this involves), and the fuss of changing benefits (potential periods of non-payment, I pay for my electricity via Fuel Direct and that's a pain to get sorted out with benefit swaps, etc.).

I'm not sure what to do, or where to turn to for advice.


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WhiteWidow
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23 Dec 2011, 12:11 am

Why would you feel un ethical for obtaining the appropriate resources to support yourself long term?



Wolfheart
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23 Dec 2011, 5:06 am

WhiteWidow wrote:
Why would you feel un ethical for obtaining the appropriate resources to support yourself long term?


Because she wants to be seen as a productive, respected and capable member of society? I don't think anyone is in an ideal situation when they have to live from the productivity of someone else.



xmh
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23 Dec 2011, 9:07 am

Quote:
I need 35+ hours, shop work is 16 hours at most


They are probably using the "something is better than nothing" approach, this will also make their statistics look better.

---

There does seem to be some dissatisfaction with the diagnosis procedure for ESA. There was a Radio Documentary on this a few days ago.



CarolineD
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23 Dec 2011, 5:28 pm

It may be worth contacting your local Citizens Advice Bureau as they can give specialist benefits advice.



Bloodheart
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23 Dec 2011, 6:19 pm

WhiteWidow wrote:
Why would you feel un ethical for obtaining the appropriate resources to support yourself long term?


ESA is intended for those who cannot work - I CAN work, and I would be applying for ESA knowing that I do not qualify, in order to to avoid dealing with the job centre for a few months and try to get the support I need to get back into work. There are MANY people with serious health problems who struggle to get onto ESA because so many undeserving people apply for this benefit.

I don't consider myself the same as scrounging fraudsters who aren't disabled, but it doesn't exactly make me feel good about having to consider ESA....plus then people would not only think of me as unemployed disabled scum, I'd be under scrutiny for being on ESA too.

ESA isn't appropriate, and I'd only be able to stay on this benefit for 6 months at most (time to apply, wait for medical assessment, and then appeal), before then going back on JSA for 6 months. Neither benefit is appropriate for me at all.

The governments closed-minded, ignorant and prejudice attitudes towards disabled people mean there is no suitable option. I think it's also this attitude that makes it hard for people like me to accept we're disabled, because we're so used to the stereotype of what a disabled person is that we believe we're not 'disabled enough' and that we don't deserve the same level of help as other disabled people.


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barnabear
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23 Dec 2011, 7:28 pm

I don't have any experience of JSA/ESA as such, but I was recently diagnosed AS and in consequence had a workplace assessment via the Access to Work Scheme which was arranged by Job Centre Plus. This resulted in recommendations for reasonable adjustments which were then negotiated and documented in a reasonable adjustments document.

This included provision of noise cancelling headphones in respect of my auditory hypersensitivity.

Provided you have a diagnosis, then the question would be what reasonable adjustments (if any) would be required to allow you to do any particular job. If no reasonable adjustments are available (for example for working in a call centre), then I don't see how you can be penalised for not going for that job.

Moreover, since the Equality Act 2010 came into force, then this applies not just to employers (as was the case of the Disability Discrimination Act) but also to any government department or service, including Job Centre Plus, benefits agencies or whoever.

As such, with a diagnosis of a disability, it seems to me that your position should be stronger now. I guess your recourse would be to complain to the Equality and Human Rights Commission. However, since you have a problem with using the phone, you would either need some sort of advocate or you would need to use e.g. email.

I'm not saying that any of this is easy, or even that I am necessarily right, but it seems to me that there should be a way out of this situation, at least to get you a stable and sustainable situation.

Good luck, I think you need it.



Bloodheart
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23 Dec 2011, 7:49 pm

barnabear wrote:
I don't have any experience of JSA/ESA as such, but I was recently diagnosed AS and in consequence had a workplace assessment via the Access to Work Scheme which was arranged by Job Centre Plus. This resulted in recommendations for reasonable adjustments which were then negotiated and documented in a reasonable adjustments document.

This included provision of noise cancelling headphones in respect of my auditory hypersensitivity.

Provided you have a diagnosis, then the question would be what reasonable adjustments (if any) would be required to allow you to do any particular job. If no reasonable adjustments are available (for example for working in a call centre), then I don't see how you can be penalised for not going for that job.

Moreover, since the Equality Act 2010 came into force, then this applies not just to employers (as was the case of the Disability Discrimination Act) but also to any government department or service, including Job Centre Plus, benefits agencies or whoever.

As such, with a diagnosis of a disability, it seems to me that your position should be stronger now. I guess your recourse would be to complain to the Equality and Human Rights Commission. However, since you have a problem with using the phone, you would either need some sort of advocate or you would need to use e.g. email.

I'm not saying that any of this is easy, or even that I am necessarily right, but it seems to me that there should be a way out of this situation, at least to get you a stable and sustainable situation.

Good luck, I think you need it.


Thanks, but I don't have my diagnosis yet (it's been about a year since I started the process to get an official diagnosis), also the Access to Work Scheme isn't available for me at the moment due to having been with Remploy - not sure the process with this, but my disability advisor at the job centre has said that there is nothing else they can offer. The job centre DO penalise me for not applying for work I'm unable to do and for not being able to meet JSA criteria - the job centre deny they are doing this however.


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Chrisstu
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24 Dec 2011, 2:02 pm

Hi
I have a partner with aspergers and learning disabilities he was told by his dea advisor that he need to go to his doctors to get a sick note for esa .My partner insisted his not sick and just needed work trials to be set up to help him find a job that he was able to do.She said unfortunate that there is nothing available like that.I sent letters to managers asking for help or people/organisations.Was called in to see the manager she said that he does not meet the criteria for jsa and he needs to claim ESA ,we are in receipt of low rate dla. Attended ESA medical managed to score 0 points bewilders me that they haven't contacted doctor or even taken notice of the sick notes i have sent in stating that he has dyslexia he struggles with understanding and needs some support at work.He has a confirmed diagnosis.I am going to appeal but feel if he didn't have someone like me that he wouldn't be able to access the help he needs and would just give up.Our teen daughter has been recently diagnosis with mild autism,but i feel if there's no help out there for her father what hope is there for her future.Thought about getting part time job myself but feel like I'm stretched to the limit I have another two younger children who are very bright.I'm in receipt of carers for my teen daughter been told I could claim income support and have my partner on my claim but that means he still will have no support. I know my partner isn't the only one falling down the jsa/esa black hole.Something has to be done ! I don't want to be classed as a scrounger at this time I can't seem to find away out![i]



ECJ
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24 Dec 2011, 5:05 pm

Hi Bloodheart,
Sorry to hear you're having problems with JSA/ESA.... I can relate to most of what you've written.
I have Aspergers. but before I was diagnosed, I was diagnosed depression and panic attacks. I really struggle with phones too. At one point a couple of years ago, I couldn't use public transport as I'd have a panic attack, so was basically trapped at home. I applied for ESA (which had, at the time of applying, 2 strands - cannot work and will never be able to work; needs help before can work), hoping to get into the second strand. I went for the medical assessment and scored 0. The assessment was biased against any mental health issues and any unseen problems. I started the appeals process but it was too stressful so I gave up.
Then I applied for JSA, but I made sure that it was known that I had applied for ESA and still had the problems I applied for ESA with. So, my Jobseekers agreement has been made so that I can meet the agreeement but don't have to make any phonecalls, and am applying for jobs I know I can do. Also, because I find the JSA signing-on stressful, I now see the DEA for signing in. My psychiatrist who diagnosed me wrote a letter to the DEA explaining the situation.
I've been advised by my DEA that I can claim DLA because of Aspergers as well as other health problems that I have. I was very skeptical at first, but she told me to go to a DIAL (Disabilities Advice and Information Line) for help filling in the form. Now I'm waiting, but have been told that it's near impossible to get DLA if you are claiming JSA because if you are able to work, then you can't have a disability. Rubbish or what?!
One other thing - there are 2 Jobcentres near me. The first time I was on JSA, I went to the one which I thought was nearest to me (but not the one i was in the catchment area for) and the staff there were all mean, unhelpful and unfriendly. The DEA who I only saw once had me in tears because she just told me everything that was bad about me. :-(
So, when I applied for ESA and then JSA again, I went to the one I was in the catchment area for. It's amazing the difference. The staff are all friendly and pleasant. If there is a different Jobcentre near you to the one you currently go to, see if you can change to it.

Citizens advice bureau may be able to help.
If there's a DIAL near you, they'll be able to help.



DreamSofa
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26 Dec 2011, 7:46 am

If you have not got a diagnosis then you may not be eligible for ESA. The ESA web site says:

Quote:
Under Employment and Support Allowance, if you have an illness or disability that severely affects your ability to work, you will get increased financial support


If you are able to work - and you claim you are - then you are eligible for the JSA, which you have been receiving for the past four years.

What you are saying is that you are not able to perform certain tasks (like using a phone), but you do not state the grounds for not being able to perform those tasks or what kind of work you can do.

And I might have missed it, but I don't think you've said why you are not able to do certain things and what you are able to do so it's very difficult to give you any advice.



pastafarian
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27 Dec 2011, 5:27 am

You need to find an advocate/buddy who can talk face to face with you.
People in the job centre are not likely to care. The Citizens Advice Bureau might care but might not have the relevant experience. I can tentatively suggest 2 groups of people, longshots, but its worth seeing if you can talk face-to-face to sympathetic and knowledgeable people:

ILA local workers
In my area the Independent Living Allowance is administered by a local charity. My sister gets it 8 hours a week to pay someone to sort her executive function problems, allow her to live independently. You have no chance of getting this money as the scheme is on hold, I'm not suggesting that....
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/disabledpeo ... dg_4019444

HOWEVER, the people who administer it are really really nice people, many of them on ILA themselves and they are very knowledgable, skilled, self-advocates for disability. Who administers it in your area? Dont ring, just go and knock on their office door, ask for a cup of coffee and a chat. Maybe its worth a go, you might find an experienced and sympathetic ear?

CPNs
The other people I have found to be wonderful are Community Psychiatric Nurses. Do you know any? The ones I have met, have acted like mental health social workers, helping with all sorts of executive function stuff. I have known dozens and it always amazes me how lovely they are. I do not mean those in hospitals, rather those in the community.



Gutsman
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27 Dec 2011, 1:58 pm

ECJ wrote:
I've been advised by my DEA that I can claim DLA because of Aspergers as well as other health problems that I have. I was very skeptical at first, but she told me to go to a DIAL (Disabilities Advice and Information Line) for help filling in the form. Now I'm waiting, but have been told that it's near impossible to get DLA if you are claiming JSA because if you are able to work, then you can't have a disability. Rubbish or what?!

You have to be under someone's care to get DLA, whether psychiatrist or specialist, or social worker, or anyone. Even then you might have a GP refuse to sign the forms. :(



Gutsman
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27 Dec 2011, 1:59 pm

pastafarian wrote:
CPNs
The other people I have found to be wonderful are Community Psychiatric Nurses. Do you know any? The ones I have met, have acted like mental health social workers, helping with all sorts of executive function stuff. I have known dozens and it always amazes me how lovely they are. I do not mean those in hospitals, rather those in the community.

I was meant to get one, was denied as I don't have a "mental illness" as I have Aspergers which they say isn't mental health. So I am cut adrift without help.

I don't expect the NAS to help, and no one here should, they are only interested in LFAs with simple needs, who are children, with social services funding. :(



barnabear
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27 Dec 2011, 4:43 pm

Gutsman wrote:
I don't expect the NAS to help, and no one here should, they are only interested in LFAs with simple needs, who are children, with social services funding. :(


Strange, I've always found acceptance and help from NAS. I have Asperger's Syndrome and I'm an adult.



Gutsman
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27 Dec 2011, 4:44 pm

barnabear wrote:
Strange, I've always found acceptance and help from NAS. I have Asperger's Syndrome and I'm an adult.

Unlike you, I can't get social services funding, and never have been able to.



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