Is a relationship really worth it?

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seoulgamer
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24 Dec 2011, 3:41 pm

I'm kidding myself, of course. I can't help but want such a thing.

But my personality is all wrong. You can be confident, sure, but that confidence is wasted if you don't flirt. Seems like it doesn't matter a damn if you share a close personal connection with someone, if you don't know how to use your body language and your words to increase the sexual tension. I always thought that romance just sort of happened between compatible people. Now I know otherwise. It has to be consciously created or nothing happens.

On top of that, I have to handle the woman's emotions and insecurities as well to demonstrate my sexy manly character, or lack thereof.

Secondary traits like being respectful, having a sense of humour, being kind to people and so on are important, of course. Once you're actually together with someone. But they don't generate the crucial attraction to begin with. That happens in the genitals, not the heart.

I know, I know. DateSage's Alpha Male guide. The catch is, all that stuff is intended to increase your confidence, whereas many of the behaviours and attitudes it advocates make me feel worse for struggling with them. And trying to pull off a smooth line is all very well if you do it properly, but it's incredibly easy for it to end up sounding creepy.

Right now, it just looks like I can't live up to what a woman would expect of me as a potential partner. If a relationship requires me to do all these things, it would be stressful and unhappy. Love isn't really romantic so much as it is a Darwinian competition. Far from being blind, love is harsh and critical, demanding a show of superior character from both of the partners.

Rant over. Sorry for doing an MR20 on it, but I'm not happy right now and need to lay out my fears.


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RICKY5
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24 Dec 2011, 6:31 pm

seoulgamer wrote:
I'm kidding myself, of course. I can't help but want such a thing.

But my personality is all wrong. You can be confident, sure, but that confidence is wasted if you don't flirt. Seems like it doesn't matter a damn if you share a close personal connection with someone, if you don't know how to use your body language and your words to increase the sexual tension. I always thought that romance just sort of happened between compatible people. Now I know otherwise. It has to be consciously created or nothing happens.

On top of that, I have to handle the woman's emotions and insecurities as well to demonstrate my sexy manly character, or lack thereof.

Secondary traits like being respectful, having a sense of humour, being kind to people and so on are important, of course. Once you're actually together with someone. But they don't generate the crucial attraction to begin with. That happens in the genitals, not the heart.

I know, I know. DateSage's Alpha Male guide. The catch is, all that stuff is intended to increase your confidence, whereas many of the behaviours and attitudes it advocates make me feel worse for struggling with them. And trying to pull off a smooth line is all very well if you do it properly, but it's incredibly easy for it to end up sounding creepy.

Right now, it just looks like I can't live up to what a woman would expect of me as a potential partner. If a relationship requires me to do all these things, it would be stressful and unhappy. Love isn't really romantic so much as it is a Darwinian competition. Far from being blind, love is harsh and critical, demanding a show of superior character from both of the partners.

Rant over. Sorry for doing an MR20 on it, but I'm not happy right now and need to lay out my fears.


I find that the rewards do not outweigh the costs for guys.



rainbowbutterfly
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24 Dec 2011, 7:40 pm

Although I've never been in a relationship myself, in my opinion it only takes good character and good looks for men to be attractive. If you are dating a female for the 1st time, or the 1st few times it's not necessary to be sexy, depending on what you're looking for. Unless you're looking for a hook up, many women require an emotional attachment to be able to go all the way. An emotional attachment occurs later on in serious relationships after they get to know and trust their partners.

I don't know much about flirting, though. Also, I can't answer the question about whether a relationship is worth it from a personal perspective. However, people I have talked to have told me mixed opinions about whether a relationship's worth it:
One person told me that once you're in a relationship you'll want to hit your partner with a frying pan and they'll want to hit you with a frying pan, but it's all worth it. Though, another person I know is happy about being single. And, I have a friend that didn't care whether she was single or in a relationship. She said she wouldn't let that issue define her happiness.



Synecdoche
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24 Dec 2011, 8:23 pm

I know that a relationship, that is a mature and strong bond between two people and not some sappy teenage drama, is definitely worth it.

But....

....there's only one way to find out.


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25 Dec 2011, 3:34 pm

Stop analysing it and do it. That's the best advice I can give you.

Honestly, if you think too much about something, you think too much into it. It wastes your time and only makes you even more stressed.

Just go out there and do something about it.



The_Face_of_Boo
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25 Dec 2011, 5:24 pm

I am not sure if I am worth for it.



Northeastern292
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26 Dec 2011, 10:56 am

Relationships are hard work, but they are definitely worth it. In fact, the only negative thing that came out of my relationship was that I packed on a few pounds. (My GPA also rose as well). It's definitely worth it.



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26 Dec 2011, 12:51 pm

I think a relationship is worth it, but I view it in very practical, utilitarian terms: as an insurance policy against lack of companionship. Think about it: let's say there's an upcoming event that requires a date, or there's a place where it's simply unacceptable for a guy to go stag. What do you do? You can scramble to find a date, panicking that you won't be able to do it before it's too late. Or you can simply call your girlfriend and invite her. Yes, player-type alpha males can easily find a date almost anywhere they go, but I'm talking about aspie guys or non-players in general.

Now, in order to get into a relationship, the start-up costs are very high: you have to work hard to make a impression good enough to generate romantic interest, you might have to spend money on dinners, and you have to work to make her feel special. But it's a one-time fixed cost (cost refers to time, money, and effort), with the subsequent variable relationship maintenance costs being quite lower. Looking for a date each time you need one is a high recurring variable cost, oftentimes high enough (even if it's just time) to make the whole search unfeasible.

So in the end, having a relationship is well worth it. By shifting most of the romance acquisition expenses to a one-time fixed cost at the beginning, as opposed to recurring variable costs, you allow the economies of scale to set in fairly quickly as a nascent relationship progresses, ensuring yourself a guaranteed date for most events. In addition, even if the maintenance costs are high, they're almost always feasible enough to be worthwhile. Now, with all that said, it's vitally important to treat one's girlfriend with respect and make her feel special on a regular basis. She has to enjoy being in a relationship with you just as much as you with her.

To make sure no one accuses me of being sexist, this accountant-style analysis can easily apply to women finding boyfriends, and equivalent concepts would work in the reversed scenario. But since women can find a date for events much more easily (as in, any date, not necessarily a prince charming), their date acquisition costs are significantly lower, which affects the cost/benefit ratio of getting into a relationship.



Last edited by Aspie1 on 26 Dec 2011, 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MXH
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26 Dec 2011, 2:39 pm

Well it depends. Ive been debating this myself a lot lately. I honestly see no reasson to engage in one for myself. I have nothing that someone might find of value in a relationship, and even if i did im not sure how id act in one.



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26 Dec 2011, 2:42 pm

Depends on who it is with and what you're both getting out of it.


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26 Dec 2011, 2:54 pm

seoulgamer wrote:
I'm kidding myself, of course. I can't help but want such a thing.

But my personality is all wrong. You can be confident, sure, but that confidence is wasted if you don't flirt. Seems like it doesn't matter a damn if you share a close personal connection with someone, if you don't know how to use your body language and your words to increase the sexual tension. I always thought that romance just sort of happened between compatible people. Now I know otherwise. It has to be consciously created or nothing happens.

On top of that, I have to handle the woman's emotions and insecurities as well to demonstrate my sexy manly character, or lack thereof.

Secondary traits like being respectful, having a sense of humour, being kind to people and so on are important, of course. Once you're actually together with someone. But they don't generate the crucial attraction to begin with. That happens in the genitals, not the heart.

I know, I know. DateSage's Alpha Male guide. The catch is, all that stuff is intended to increase your confidence, whereas many of the behaviours and attitudes it advocates make me feel worse for struggling with them. And trying to pull off a smooth line is all very well if you do it properly, but it's incredibly easy for it to end up sounding creepy.

Right now, it just looks like I can't live up to what a woman would expect of me as a potential partner. If a relationship requires me to do all these things, it would be stressful and unhappy. Love isn't really romantic so much as it is a Darwinian competition. Far from being blind, love is harsh and critical, demanding a show of superior character from both of the partners.

Rant over. Sorry for doing an MR20 on it, but I'm not happy right now and need to lay out my fears.


Your personality isn't all wrong at all. You might have a few loose gears making things problematic, but at the end of the day we each have a basic personality that isn't actually all that mutable. You can't do a personectomy, and nor should you.

You're very much in the mode of trying to be something you're not, which is only going to attract (if you can keep up the subterfuge/make it effective enough) people who aren't attracted to you for who you are.

What all this suggests to me is a basic lack of faith and confidence in yourself that could do with addressing. Self help, or get a good friend or therapist/life coach to help you out. Anything you can get, really. You can't really develop confidence in your core self by learning little tricks to try on women in bars.

The key to being relationship ready is to work out who you really are, boost your inherent good traits (and we all have them), mitigate the negative ones, become competent enough at socialisation that you don't destroy everything you touch, then keep making contact with different women until you find ones who you gel with.

Then you've got a whole bunch of other problems, but that's another story. :wink:


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MzUndastood
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26 Dec 2011, 3:28 pm

If we're talking about a romantic relationship, then no, it's not really worth it. I tried the relationship thing, but I guess I'm not a relationship kind of girl. I'm not into talking about my feelings or talking in general, or public displays of affection or cuddling. I like my space in my bed and although I love physical contact, I just prefer to sleep alone. I'm a great friend but I suck at being a girlfriend. Many NT guys have offered to be my boyfriend but I'm just upfront with them..I simply say no, it would just be too weird. And I got some effed up ways as a result of being an aspie and not knowing it for many years, so I'm working on those issues. But I'll never say never...just not now.



seoulgamer
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26 Dec 2011, 6:57 pm

Quote:
You're very much in the mode of trying to be something you're not, which is only going to attract (if you can keep up the subterfuge/make it effective enough) people who aren't attracted to you for who you are.


I figured the Alpha Male stuff was the only way I could improve. Better than nothing...I do kind of feel like I could never truly pull it off, though.

Quote:
What all this suggests to me is a basic lack of faith and confidence in yourself that could do with addressing. Self help, or get a good friend or therapist/life coach to help you out. Anything you can get, really. You can't really develop confidence in your core self by learning little tricks to try on women in bars.


When I asked a girl I liked why she hadn't felt attracted to me, a lot of the reasons why were consistent with explanations offered by pickup material, so that really hit me hard. Made me feel like what I had didn't match up with what her or any other woman needed.

Quote:
The key to being relationship ready is to work out who you really are, boost your inherent good traits (and we all have them), mitigate the negative ones, become competent enough at socialisation that you don't destroy everything you touch, then keep making contact with different women until you find ones who you gel with.


I'm afraid that even if I "gel" with someone, it won't be enough without flirting or specific techniques. Is it really OK to be direct about how you go about bonding with someone, or do women really need "the chase" that much?

Many thanks to everyone who replied, this has been eating at me for quite a while.


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AnonymousPasserBy
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26 Dec 2011, 7:11 pm

I believe they are, I just haven't quite figured out how to end up in one.



AdrianB
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29 Dec 2011, 7:29 pm

Yes they are. But not just a relationship.

Don't look at it like it's some official agreement between two people. It's an organic consequence of two people who have a connection with each other, strengthened by love. That's why you don't look for a relationship, you find one.

In order to find one, you need to know what to look for and how to pursue it. It's not easy, but goddammit is it fun. Believe me. Get your s**t in order, know who you are, be confident of -and for- yourself and just have a go at it.

It's perfectly possible your first/second/third/.. try/tries yield no success or a complete success, but don't think of the result. Think of the process. Have only the next step in your head while you progress. If there's a hiccup down the road, deal with it when it happens: Wing it.

Please trust me. Once you've felt that connection with somebody, you'll chase the moon for it.



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30 Dec 2011, 10:26 am

There are all sorts of women in the world. I'm pretty goofy myself and I've managed to learn some of the ropes.

On the other hand, life isnt fair. If you try, you may fail. But better to take some shots and have your self-respect enhanced from knowing you took risks.