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donnie_darko
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:58 am    Post subject: The genetic relatedness of different European nationalities Reply with quote

This map is really interesting. I'm half English and half Irish and I find it interesting how closely related the Irish and English are apparently to Dutch and Norwegians, and also how unrelated Swedes and especially Finns are to Danes and Norwegians. In fact Finns are genetically distinct from all Europeans which makes sense considering their Finno-Ugric language. I wonder if they cluster the closest to Estonians, Latvians, northern Russians and Lithuanians.

One can also see the overlap between the different Mediterranean populations; for example you wouldn't expect Portugal and Italy to have much actual genetic overlap, but they do, which imo suggests migration from the Italian Peninsula to other parts of the Roman Empire during ancient times.

Romanians especially, seem all over the map, which doesn't surprise me.

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CrazyCatLord
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:52 am    Post subject: Re: The genetic relatedness of different European nationalit Reply with quote

donnie_darko wrote:
I'm half English and half Irish and I find it interesting how closely related the Irish and English are apparently to Dutch and Norwegians ...


Don't forget Danes and Germans Smile The three Anglo-Saxon tribes that migrated to England in the 5th and 6th century came from Denmark (Jutes) and Germany (Saxons. The Angles lived both in modern day Schleswig-Holstein and Jutland). Another immigration wave of Danish people (vikings) occured in the 9th century.

The only relation between the English and the Dutch is that the Anglo-Saxon tribes also settled in the Nothern Netherlands, where they became known as Frisians.
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donnie_darko
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:53 am    Post subject: Re: The genetic relatedness of different European nationalit Reply with quote

CrazyCatLord wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:
I'm half English and half Irish and I find it interesting how closely related the Irish and English are apparently to Dutch and Norwegians ...


Don't forget Danes and Germans Smile The three Anglo-Saxon tribes that migrated to England in the 5th and 6th century came from Denmark (Jutes) and Germany (Saxons. The Angles lived both in modern day Schleswig-Holstein and Jutland). Another immigration wave of Danish vikings occured in the 9th century.

The only relation between the English and the Dutch is that the Anglo-Saxon tribes also settled in the Nothern Netherlands, where they became known as Frisians.


Actually according to this map, there is only a little bit of overlap between English people and the people of Germany, which is quite interesting.
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CrazyCatLord
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:01 am    Post subject: Re: The genetic relatedness of different European nationalit Reply with quote

donnie_darko wrote:
Actually according to this map, there is only a little bit of overlap between English people and the people of Germany, which is quite interesting.


That is very odd considering that there is a huge genetic overlap between Dutch and Northern German people. The overlap between the Dutch and English should be about the same as between the English and Germans. But the Danes contributed even more to the English gene pool.

Not that it really matters though, because all modern day people are mutts and mongrels Very Happy I just find it interesting from a historical perspective.
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ruveyn
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:26 am    Post subject: Re: The genetic relatedness of different European nationalit Reply with quote

CrazyCatLord wrote:


Not that it really matters though, because all modern day people are mutts and mongrels Very Happy I just find it interesting from a historical perspective.


Truth!
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ValentineWiggin
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a book on the subject by archaeogeneticist Bryan Sykes called The Seven Daughters of Eve.
He gets into other topics as well, such as the origin of the first settlers of Polynesia.
Pretty fascinating- highly recommend.
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YippySkippy
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can see the genetic legacy of all those Viking raids.
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ValentineWiggin
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YippySkippy wrote:
You can see the genetic legacy of all those Viking raids.


rapejokelol?
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snapcap
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YippySkippy wrote:
You can see the genetic legacy of all those Viking raids.


In the valleys, some people swear they can still hear the faint pounding of those genetic jackhammers.
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naturalplastic
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is odd-that Finnland is floating out there in space-not even touchng the rest of non-Russian Europe. Lingustically Finnland is also unrelated to most of europe. But the Finns linguistic cousins -the Hungarians are embedded right in with the rest of europe.

Apparently they split Germany ( or German speaking peoples) in two - Deutche 1 and Deutche 2. Northern and Southern.

Bertlitz German that American school kids learn is actually the dialect of the alpine southern part of the German speaking world (Bavaria, Switzerland, Austria). In that offical version of german the verb for "consuming food with your mouth" is "essen".

In the northern german dialects the word is "etten". Lingusitially the coastal part of Germany is much closer to both the Netherlands and to England. And this shows that genetically north germans overlap with the Dutch and the English as well.
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donnie_darko
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed one could almost say the Dutch, Germans and English form an ethnic continuum. Germany seems very similar to the States/Canada/England imo, even though I can only understand the most basic sentences in the language.
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ruveyn
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the wiki article on the genetic makeup of Europe:

Homo sapiens appeared in Europe roughly 40,000 years ago, with the settlement of the Cro-magnons. Over the prehistoric period there was continual immigration to Europe, notably by the immediate descendents of the Proto-Indo-Europeans who migrated west after the advent of the neolithic revolution.[12]
The vast majority of Europe’s inhabitants are of the European (or Caucasoid) geographic race, characterized by pale or lightly pigmented skin, variability in eye and hair colour, and a number of biochemical similarities.[13]
[edit]MtDna and Y-Dna
Studies of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) have suggested substantial genetic homogeneity of European populations,[14] with only a few geographic or linguistic isolates appearing to be genetic isolates as well.[15] On the other hand, analyses of the Y chromosome [16] [17] and of autosomal diversity [18] have shown a general gradient of genetic similarity running from the southeast to the northwest of the continent.
But, well-known areas with Mt-Dna and Y-Dna differences, discovered by grouping and tracking prehistorical genotype migrations, are in Iberia, in relation to the Basques of northern Spain and southwest France; and the Balkans of southeast Europe. Both were areas of refuge where early modern humans settled over 50,000 years ago, during the last ice age.[citation needed]


Europe is a pretty mixed bag of White Guys (mostly).

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most Europeans are related, linguistically or genetically, with the notable exception of the Basque people of Navarre, who have been there longer than anyone else
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donnie_darko
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vigilans wrote:
Most Europeans are related, linguistically or genetically, with the notable exception of the Basque people of Navarre, who have been there longer than anyone else


I would argue the Basque are quite closely related to the Welsh.
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Vigilans
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

donnie_darko wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Most Europeans are related, linguistically or genetically, with the notable exception of the Basque people of Navarre, who have been there longer than anyone else


I would argue the Basque are quite closely related to the Welsh.


Confused why? That would be incorrect in any case, the Basque have been extensively researched and this is the first time I have ever heard mention of a Welsh connection.
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