jojobean
sacred clown
Joined: Aug 13, 2009
Posts: 3341
Location: In Georgia sipping a virgin pina' colada while the rest of the world is drunk
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Bun
Bunnymen
Joined: Jan 09, 2012
Posts: 3250
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 Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| Do you have a clue of how reliable is this story? I'm weak when it comes to being able to tell the truth from a hoax. |
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ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29709
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Wikileaks: Israel already destroyed Iran's nuclear facil |
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| jojobean wrote: | http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/02/27/wikileaks-emails-indicate-stratfor-discovered-israel-already-destroyed-irans-nuclear-facilities/
So why all the war-mongering about Iran going to kill us all, when Israel destroyed their program??? They say its the EU distracting ppl from financial woes. |
If true, which I doubt, then Israel has solved the problem without spilling hardly a drop of blood.
Congratulations should be in order.
ruveyn |
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JeremyNJ1984
Velociraptor
Joined: Oct 10, 2010
Age: 29
Posts: 496
Location: Central New Jersey
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| I think this whole idea is debunked by the recent high profile assasinations of Iranian nuclear scientists. Why go to such risks if the program was destroyed years ago? The Stuxnet virus did a boat load of damage but it didn't stop the Iranian nuclear program. |
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Inventor
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 16, 2007
Posts: 5136
Location: New Orleans
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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What does not exist cannot be destroyed.
What does exist and scares people is mineral deposits, third largest source of oil, and large Uranium deposits. Electric power is very exportable.
As no one in the region has Atomic Power, They get their electric from burning gas and oil, little coal in the area. When that becomes expensive, electric power is power.
The reactors are the latest of Russian designed and built. The first is up and running, with plans for fifty more. That is more than France.
Regional markets are large, Turky, Egypt, Pakistan, India, Syria, Iraq has constant blackouts, Afganistan, and from there China. Russia can be paid in power.
Iran's part is mining and producing fuel rods. They not only have that technology working, they are building huge. The only other players are India, Russia, China, and linking the grids, electric power can be wheeled at the speed of light.
Electric power is the end goal of coal, oil, and soon transport. Cars, but also high speed trains.
Iran is spending it's oil income on the future of power.
The second reason is, western powers want to run a pipeline through Afganistan, Pakistan, to load the oil from Central Asia, The Stans, on ships, where Russia and Iran would also like a pipeline, that connects to China.
China gets its oil by sea, very easy to shut down. A pipe and power line over land is more dependable.
There is a trillion dollar mineral deposit in Afganistan. The Chinese got the mining concession. It is a lot of Copper, but also Lithium, Rare Earths, and must be transported back to China for processing.
A rail line north is shortest.
After ten years in Afganistan, our Officers are not safe in highly secure buildings in Kabul. The Taliban does not attack the Chinese interests, but they do blow up Pakistan.
So the Americans are leaving, the government is a drug dealing Pakistan puppet, that will not last a week. Pakistan could fall, and they do have the bomb.
Iraq has a Iran favoring government, The Saudi favoring faction is in hiding. Same faction who produced Saddam, made war on Iran. He was an evil dictator, he oppressed his people, so America killed 100,000 so they are no longer oppressed.
America lost, and the hangover is owing China $2 Trillion. If we were a billion, we would owe China $2,000 each, so $6,000, but only half work, illegals will not pay, so we each owe China about $15,000.
That is more than our Net Worth per person.
So there is nothing left but having Israel start World War III, for God.
Other than that we would have to raise taxes, reduce war spending, and God does not allow such things.
A Billion Islamic, another of Hindus, another of Chinese, must see their error, and convert to The One True Faith.
Better you were all dead than Congress and the rest of government having to take a 50% pay cut, and live on the same Social Security and Medicare as the rest of us.
Jesus said, "Unto Caesar what is Caesar's, unto God what is God's," Caesar wants the material world, God wants your soul, so die.
If we make it to the Fall, Vote, like you were on the Jury.
There must be 1,000 sane people left. Elect them. |
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nostromo
Honk-honk Hippo
Joined: Mar 13, 2010
Age: 45
Posts: 3205
Location: At Festively Plump
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting country Iran, so different from the Arab states.
Ahmadinejad is a shrewd operator, I don't believe for one moment he is really anti Israel, its just a convenient ploy to reach his other goals of asserting power and influence in the region. All that stuff about Holocausts and so on..I mean really, his speech writers must have a whale of a time competing to put ever more inflammatrory stuff in there depending on what other things they need to divert attention from. If the Israelis were smart they'd call him out on it, theres no natural reason for an animosity between the two countries, nor the faiths, e.g. Judaism along with Christianity is an officially recognised and protected religion in Iran with seats reserved in their parliament.
Its hard to know whether the Iranians really want the bomb, or want the threat of developing one for other leveraging purposes which might be the best outcome, but they are in an excellent position, and no-one can do a lot about it without causing themselves major strife in the process. |
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Sokar
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Jul 29, 2010
Age: 37
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| nostromo wrote: | Interesting country Iran, so different from the Arab states.
Ahmadinejad is a shrewd operator, I don't believe for one moment he is really anti Israel, its just a convenient ploy to reach his other goals of asserting power and influence in the region. All that stuff about Holocausts and so on..I mean really, his speech writers must have a whale of a time competing to put ever more inflammatrory stuff in there depending on what other things they need to divert attention from. If the Israelis were smart they'd call him out on it, theres no natural reason for an animosity between the two countries, nor the faiths, e.g. Judaism along with Christianity is an officially recognised and protected religion in Iran with seats reserved in their parliament.
Its hard to know whether the Iranians really want the bomb, or want the threat of developing one for other leveraging purposes which might be the best outcome, but they are in an excellent position, and no-one can do a lot about it without causing themselves major strife in the process. |
While I agree that it's nuclear power that Iran wants, for much the same reasons as Inventor described, there is one reason that Iran could want nukes and I believe that is a perfectly just and legal reason, but also the reason nukes should be done away with altogether. Israel has had nukes aimed at the capitals of every "enemy of Israel" for over 40 years. These states have a right to self-defence and when it comes to nukes there is no better defence than MAD. |
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Declension
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 21, 2012
Posts: 1687
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:40 am Post subject: |
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It's getting harder and harder to make the moral case that Iran shouldn't be allowed to do things that Israel and the U.S. are allowed to do.
People say, "well the U.S. and Israel are allowed to have nuclear weapons because the U.S. and Israel are peaceful democracies, and Iran is crazy!" Um, really? I wonder how a Martian would classify the countries of the world? As far as I remember, it wasn't Iran who recently invaded a country on trumped-up charges despite overwhelming international opposition. |
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Bun
Bunnymen
Joined: Jan 09, 2012
Posts: 3250
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:41 am Post subject: |
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| Unlike the U.S, Israel never used its nuclear power, mind. |
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Sokar
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Jul 29, 2010
Age: 37
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:46 am Post subject: |
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| Bun wrote: | | Unlike the U.S, Israel never used its nuclear power, mind. |
The same could be said for India and Pakistan, but it is often forgotten how close they came to a nuclear exchange only a few years ago. Had on of those countries not had nuclear weapons, would America still be alone? |
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Bun
Bunnymen
Joined: Jan 09, 2012
Posts: 3250
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:05 am Post subject: |
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| I'm sorry, but, what are you referring to when you say America would be alone? |
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Sokar
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Jul 29, 2010
Age: 37
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:22 am Post subject: |
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| The only country to actually use nuclear weapons. |
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Bun
Bunnymen
Joined: Jan 09, 2012
Posts: 3250
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:02 am Post subject: |
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| Alright, so you're saying that India and Pakistan haven't used their nuclear weapons for fear of rebuttal from the other country, and if one of them didn't have WMDs, it would have led the way to nuclear warfare? |
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donnie_darko
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 27, 2009
Age: 23
Posts: 1794
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| I always take what I hear on rawstory with a grain of salt. That doesn't mean they're always wrong, and I like how they will touch some topics the MSM won't with a 10 light year pole, but I doubt this story. |
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Sokar
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Jul 29, 2010
Age: 37
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:44 am Post subject: |
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| Bun wrote: | | Alright, so you're saying that India and Pakistan haven't used their nuclear weapons for fear of rebuttal from the other country, and if one of them didn't have WMDs, it would have led the way to nuclear warfare? |
Have you never heard of MAD, Mutually Assured Destruction? |
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