Arcena
Butterfly
Joined: Jul 23, 2011
Age: 18
Posts: 10
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 Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:23 pm Post subject: Job prospects for someone informally trained in computers... |
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That is, someone who doesn't have a degree, but has taught themselves programming and all that jazz.
I'm a seventeen year old disillusioned with the education system in America. It all seems like a glorified babysitting program, so I feel I can learn much more when left to my own devices. My only fear is that a lack of that goddam piece of paper we call a diploma will worsen my chance at finding a job down the line. I am interested in becoming an entrepreneur however (you can thank TSN for that).
My plan for now is to absorb all the Math & Science I can while mooching off of my mom and working part time jobs, in preparation for starting a business.
I suppose my question is: Can a self-taught programmer find jobs in that field? How difficult would it be?
I recognize that this may be something I can research on my own, so I may be wasting your time here, but I feel asking the more experienced posters in this site will help me attain the knowledge faster. If there's anything browsing forums has taught me, it's that there's a treasure trove of information to be found by asking around. |
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VIDEODROME
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 21, 2008
Age: 36
Posts: 1700
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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Well right now I'm in a college program that is preparation to test for a Certificate for Microsoft Networking instead of going for a full degree. I may go on and try to take other Certificate tests.
I think most of these tests are from either Microsoft or Cisco. If you already know programming you might be able to take their certification tests and add those to your resume. |
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jagatai
Idiot
Joined: Feb 22, 2010
Age: 48
Posts: 1312
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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My feeling is that if you are largely self taught, that it doesn't necessarily stop you from being able to get a job, but it will influence the kind of employer you seek out and the style of your job search.
To clarify, I think self taught people tend to do better with smaller businesses where you have a much more personal relationship to your employer. I work in visual effects and graphics and I have always worked for small companies. You may need to direct your job searches toward companies of 10 or less employees.
The style of your job search is likely to involve more person to person networking since you will need other people to vouch for your skills. In a big corporation where hiring is often a different department from management, you are more likely to be expected to show credentials because whoever hires you is not likely to rely on their personal opinion of you and some nifty code you have written.
While universities and trade schools can have serious down sides, they can also get you to where you want to go faster than you could on your own. A lot of personal networking is done at school and the people you know can help point you to good job opportunities. Also when you are self taught, you can often develop bad programming habits that a teacher might have been able to catch early and help direct you toward better practices. I am largely self taught and in many ways, I feel I could have benefited from what a school could offer. That said, I'm doing okay so I can't complain too much about being an autodidact.
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AardvarkGoodSwimmer
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 27, 2009
Age: 50
Posts: 4902
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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I studied C++ programming from 1998 to 2000 and what I found, straight up, is that these "human resource" people rule the world. And the only thing they look at is years of corporate experience. And I wish that wasn't the case, but it sure seems to be.
So, you have to be very strategic going around them. For example, "I've already sent HR a copy of my resume. May I send you a copy also?" And that way, you are not putting the person in the position of asking them to go around HR. You are just asking if they would like to see a copy, too. |
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VIDEODROME
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 21, 2008
Age: 36
Posts: 1700
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| OMG I hate Human Resources. |
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Stargazer43
Scruffy-looking Nerf Herder
Joined: Nov 07, 2011
Posts: 1328
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:02 am Post subject: |
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| Many computer programs/programming things have professional certification exams that you can take. If you really are committed to self-learning you could study for/take those exams to get certified, which would look great on a resume and open a lot of doors in terms of job prospects. Of course, I don't know if those type of certifications exist for what you're looking to do. Also not to discourage you, but starting a business, particularly at such a young age, can be a highly difficult venture and I wish you the best! |
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Foxx
Deinonychus
Joined: Nov 15, 2010
Posts: 327
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| jagatai wrote: |
To clarify, I think self taught people tend to do better with smaller businesses where you have a much more personal relationship to your employer. I work in visual effects and graphics and I have always worked for small companies. You may need to direct your job searches toward companies of 10 or less employees.
The style of your job search is likely to involve more person to person networking since you will need other people to vouch for your skills. In a big corporation where hiring is often a different department from management, you are more likely to be expected to show credentials because whoever hires you is not likely to rely on their personal opinion of you and some nifty code you have written.
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Any job search can be helped by a good network. I can suggest linkedIn for anybody. LinkedIn is kinda like facebook, but on a professional level... you have a résumé, a summary about yourself and more listed, then, any boss who needs you can find you. At the same time, you can establish a list of relations from previous jobs, family, friends etc. in a professional rolodex as well as ask for recommendations from them.
Certificates are always nice to have, it makes sure that some of your credentials are formally on paper, and also take a relatively short amount of time to take (cisco certificates usually require you to read a book and take a test). They will heighten your chances, especially with specialized work.
Additionally, look everywhere, even companies that may not be hiring or posting ads may have an interest in you. Don't write then just once, but send them an application every two months for example. This shows that you have a genuine interest in working for the company, and it adds a + in their books as well. Some companies may find this irritating however, so you need to fan out your efforts a bit. Another + for most companies, is if you show interest in their products as well.
The main handicap of self-taught programming skills is usually the lack of code consistency, documentation skills and testing skills. These are all taught formally in eg. computer science classes. they also teach you the various naming and coding conventions. If you're using Visual studio, Stylecop is a great tool for training yourself to write clean and consistent code.
The pros of autodidact programmers, however are vast, but overlooked. Many self-taught programmers are not affected so much by conventions, and are usually much more creative in devising algorithms. Some can make very effective code that surpasses that of their school-educated brethren. At the same time the'yre also usually more adept at and willing to seek out new information.
If programming is also a hobby, that's usually indicative to many smaller companies (without HR assholes) that it's a skill you've used a long time to train.
What HR people ignore here, is that programming is not simply a skill taught in schools, it's a skill that needs to be kept up, just like playing an instrument. You become rusty if you don't use it... |
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SabbraCadabra
Sea Gull
Joined: Apr 22, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 3896
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:18 am Post subject: Re: Job prospects for someone informally trained in computer |
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| Arcena wrote: | | I suppose my question is: Can a self-taught programmer find jobs in that field? How difficult would it be? |
It probably depends on exactly what kind of programming you intend to get into, but generally experience is much more important than education.
Especially in the video-game dev world, they're going to choose someone with a really great looking portfolio, whether or not they have formal education in that field.
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nat4200
Phoenix
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Joined: Jan 11, 2011
Posts: 704
Location: BANNED
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:55 am Post subject: |
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Redacted
Last edited by nat4200 on Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Paulie_C
Sea Gull
Joined: Jan 05, 2012
Age: 28
Posts: 246
Location: Birmingham, UK
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| Interviewers should take autodidacts just as serious as the certificated. If you can prove to them you know your stuff then you can always get the qualification on the job. |
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