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LennytheWicked
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 Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:36 pm Post subject: The use of "Communist" |
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Going by objective terms, Communism is supposed to be sort of like socialism, but run on the function that everyone is equal. [I interpret socialism as everyone having equal economic potential rather than actually being equal, since most of the occidental world has socialist aspects to its government and economic system, as well as part of the oriental world.] People associate communism with lack of individual rights in favor of a strong central government. This is where I draw the line.
That's fascism, dammit.
I object to people misusing the terms 'communist' and 'socialist.' Usually when people say that as an insult, they're talking about fascism--or at least in my experience.
As for the current 'communist' countries, my World Civ. teacher pointed out that they don't run on textbook communism, instead running on textbook fascism with occasional displays of communist programs--early on, at least. |
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Sweetleaf
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: The use of "Communist" |
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| LennytheWicked wrote: | Going by objective terms, Communism is supposed to be sort of like socialism, but run on the function that everyone is equal. [I interpret socialism as everyone having equal economic potential rather than actually being equal, since most of the occidental world has socialist aspects to its government and economic system, as well as part of the oriental world.] People associate communism with lack of individual rights in favor of a strong central government. This is where I draw the line.
That's fascism, dammit.
I object to people misusing the terms 'communist' and 'socialist.' Usually when people say that as an insult, they're talking about fascism--or at least in my experience.
As for the current 'communist' countries, my World Civ. teacher pointed out that they don't run on textbook communism, instead running on textbook fascism with occasional displays of communist programs--early on, at least. |
Well I would not say facism is the only form of government with a strong central government but I see your point. It annoys me when people mis-use communism as well. I mean communism in its real form would be a classless society in which everyone has the same access to resources, so the needs of the whole community are provided for more or less...its not supposed to involve a ruling class or mass oppression. I guess to some communism causes them to visualize the Soviet Union during the cold war or something even though that was never communism.
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AstroGeek
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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Fascism is an extremely ill-defined concept and can be used to describe basically anything that the user wants. I have heard Green Parties referred to as fascist, as well as social conservatives like the British Nationalist Party.
Communism in the original sense meant a stateless, classless system that would be the end point for human society. Marx felt that under socialism the concept of the state would fall away within a few generations and socialism would be replaced with communism. It's rather naive of him, but anyway...
It can be useful to use Communism to refer to the single-party states that developed in Eastern Europe and elsewhere. That way you can distinguish them from the suggestions of systems running on democratic socialism.
The term communist would usually refer to someone advocating revolutionary socialism and believes that it would be possible to eventually transition to communism in the original Marxist sense. Often times they are rather deluded individuals who believe that the USSR actually was an example of socialism (which it was not) and perhaps even a utopia (which it most definitely was not). Even some of the more radical socialists will say things like "Communists have difficulty distinguishing between fantasy and reality."
Of the 5 remaining communist countries, only 2 bear any resemblance to the USSR: North Korea and Cuba. North Korea is if anything crazier than the USSR was because they have such a ridiculous cult of the personality surround their leaders. Cuba is probably a bit better than the USSR was and is making changes to its system that will allow some private enterprise. However, this enterprise involved leasing from the state and strict regulation, will often take the form of cooperatives, will only apply to the parts of the economy where small business can play a role, and will be under strict regulation. So it won't be a move to capitalism like in China. |
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Sweetleaf
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| AstroGeek wrote: | Fascism is an extremely ill-defined concept and can be used to describe basically anything that the user wants. I have heard Green Parties referred to as fascist, as well as social conservatives like the British Nationalist Party.
Communism in the original sense meant a stateless, classless system that would be the end point for human society. Marx felt that under socialism the concept of the state would fall away within a few generations and socialism would be replaced with communism. It's rather naive of him, but anyway...
It can be useful to use Communism to refer to the single-party states that developed in Eastern Europe and elsewhere. That way you can distinguish them from the suggestions of systems running on democratic socialism.
But calling them communism mis-represents communism and spreads ignorance.
The term communist would usually refer to someone advocating revolutionary socialism and believes that it would be possible to eventually transition to communism in the original Marxist sense. Often times they are rather deluded individuals who believe that the USSR actually was an example of socialism (which it was not) and perhaps even a utopia (which it most definitely was not). Even some of the more radical socialists will say things like "Communists have difficulty distinguishing between fantasy and reality."
Of the 5 remaining communist countries, only 2 bear any resemblance to the USSR: North Korea and Cuba. North Korea is if anything crazier than the USSR was because they have such a ridiculous cult of the personality surround their leaders. Cuba is probably a bit better than the USSR was and is making changes to its system that will allow some private enterprise. However, this enterprise involved leasing from the state and strict regulation, will often take the form of cooperatives, will only apply to the parts of the economy where small business can play a role, and will be under strict regulation. So it won't be a move to capitalism like in China. |
Neither The USSR or any of those countries have communism, especially not North Korea....North Korea resembles facism a lot more than it resembles communism same with Cuba really but they don't seem as extreme.
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ruveyn
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Sweetleaf wrote: |
Neither The USSR or any of those countries have communism, especially not North Korea....North Korea resembles facism a lot more than it resembles communism same with Cuba really but they don't seem as extreme. |
So called communists are nothing but Red Fascists and Gangsters. Karl Marx may be been wrong-headed but he wasn't a criminal. Neither was Engel. However Lenin and Trotsky and especially Stalin, were bad to the bone.
ruveyn |
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Sweetleaf
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| ruveyn wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: |
Neither The USSR or any of those countries have communism, especially not North Korea....North Korea resembles facism a lot more than it resembles communism same with Cuba really but they don't seem as extreme. |
So called communists are nothing but Red Fascists and Gangsters. Karl Marx may be been wrong-headed but he wasn't a criminal. Neither was Engel. However Lenin and Trotsky and especially Stalin, were bad to the bone.
ruveyn |
I am confused about how this response correlates with my post.
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androbot2084
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| The definition of communism is holding everything in common. All property is held in common and nobody considers any property his own possession. Eventually people themselves will be held in common. Nobody will consider their bodies as their own property nor will they feel that way about their lovers, their children nor their parents. Even thoughts themselves will not be ones own. |
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Sweetleaf
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| androbot2084 wrote: | | The definition of communism is holding everything in common. All property is held in common and nobody considers any property his own possession. Eventually people themselves will be held in common. Nobody will consider their bodies as their own property nor will they feel that way about their lovers, their children nor their parents. Even thoughts themselves will not be ones own. |
That sounds more like suppression than communism....I don't think communism is about everyone being exactly the same, makes for a nice horror story about the evils of communism though.
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Jacoby
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| The theory of communism isn't reality. In practice it is not much different that fascism. It's a murderous and evil ideology with a good mission statement. |
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Sweetleaf
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Jacoby wrote: | | The theory of communism isn't reality. In practice it is not much different that fascism. It's a murderous and evil ideology with a good mission statement. |
It has not been in practice yet, so that's impossible to say......yes some governments that have been labeled as communist did and do resemble facism. I fail to see what is so evil about the idea of communism.
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Joker
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Judisam and Islam are a lot a like just like Communism and Fascim but they are in fact diffrent in a lot of ways when you compare the two types of goverment in a graph you can cleary see they are two very diffrent ideas I would rather live in a Fascist country at least I would get to own things but I wouldnt be able to do that in a Communist country. |
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Sweetleaf
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Joker wrote: | | Judisam and Islam are a lot a like just like Communism and Fascim but they are in fact diffrent in a lot of ways when you compare the two types of goverment in a graph you can cleary see they are two very diffrent ideas I would rather live in a Fascist country at least I would get to own things but I wouldnt be able to do that in a Communist country. |
Communism is supposed to be a classless society in which resources/goods/services are divided equally, how is that anything like facism...like I said it has not been in practice.
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Joker
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Sweetleaf wrote: | | Joker wrote: | | Judisam and Islam are a lot a like just like Communism and Fascim but they are in fact diffrent in a lot of ways when you compare the two types of goverment in a graph you can cleary see they are two very diffrent ideas I would rather live in a Fascist country at least I would get to own things but I wouldnt be able to do that in a Communist country. |
Communism is supposed to be a classless society in which resources/goods/services are divided equally, how is that anything like facism...like I said it has not been in practice. |
Their nothing alike really sure some of their ideas souind the same on paper but their nothing a like I never stated they where a like I was using a analogy. |
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Jacoby
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sure people that believe in the theory of fascism don't believe it's disastrous results either.
The idea that communism is really for some stateless egalitarian society is ridiculous since how do you achieve that? You can not change human nature and you can not stamp out free will. |
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Sweetleaf
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Jacoby wrote: | I'm sure people that believe in the theory of fascism don't believe it's disastrous results either.
The idea that communism is really for some stateless egalitarian society is ridiculous since how do you achieve that? You can not change human nature and you can not stamp out free will. |
How is that ridiculous, that is what communism is.... whether its possible to put it into practice is another matter.
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