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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14869
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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 Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:16 pm Post subject: What is this called? |
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Ok so the other day I posted out a long thought out post about this issue I face only to delete it, because I figured so much attempts at description would just make it more confusing. But yeah I don't really identify with males or females. Like I've never been very comfortable with the being female thing........but I don't necessarily want to be a male either.
I mostly dress like a guy....but sometimes I dress more feminine or I might wear guy pants, with a more feminine shirt. I am pretty sure based on recent conclusions that I am asexual but still desire relationships just not with sex. but what am I supposed to define myself as? I don't define myself as a male or female....but I am completely physically female as far as I know. I guess I am just not sure what do do with these feelings.
One example of how this can be an issue is...the other day my mom got me a book from the library about Aspergers and being a female. And though she's just trying to be helpful I was still kind of offended that she thought a book specifically for females with Aspergers would help. Just because I feel weird about identifying as a female in that sense.
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niconiconico
Butterfly
Joined: Jan 26, 2012
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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There's this label that's been going around lately, it's being genderqueer. I guess it's an umbrella term for all of those who don't really feel like a boy nor a girl
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genderqueer |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
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Age: 23
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Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| niconiconico wrote: | There's this label that's been going around lately, it's being genderqueer. I guess it's an umbrella term for all of those who don't really feel like a boy nor a girl
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genderqueer |
That was very interesting...I think I shall look more into that topic. But yeah another interesting thing is typically if people address me as a he because they don't realize I am physically female I have never felt the need to correct them really. And if someone else does I have the urge to tell them I didn't mind at all....or if the person who confuses me as a guy apologizes and then it's even more awkward feeling.
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starkid
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Joined: Feb 10, 2012
Age: 32
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Location: California Bay Area
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:06 pm Post subject: A Rant |
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NO NO NO! This issue seems to be coming up more and more lately, and it is driving me crazy. You are mixing up biological sex and gender roles. Nobody "feels" male or female because they are not feelings, and there are no feelings inherent to either. They are just categories that describe the reproductive capabilities of your body. That's all! It makes no difference how you "define yourself," or what you do or do not want to be! It's not a choice you make. Your biology is what it is, and it does not directly determine your personality.
It is harmful for people to keep going around saying that being male or female is about acting and feeling a certain way. This is precisely the way gender roles were created, and it has led to anyone who doesn't fit in experiencing anything from ostracism to murder. So many people these days think it is cool and progressive to say they don't "feel" like their sex and identify as something else, but it is not. It is misusing terms, it is emulating the oppressive and divisive tactic of putting a label on everyone outside of the "norm," and it is reinforcing the idea that all females/males have to be some certain way, and if they are not, they somehow aren't really male/female.
You don't have to define yourself as anything. Just live your life and be yourself. |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14869
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:12 pm Post subject: Re: A Rant |
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| starkid wrote: | NO NO NO! This issue seems to be coming up more and more lately, and it is driving me crazy. You are mixing up biological sex and gender roles. Nobody "feels" male or female because they are not feelings, and there are no feelings inherent to either. They are just categories that describe the reproductive capabilities of your body. That's all! It makes no difference how you "define yourself," or what you do or do not want to be! It's not a choice you make. Your biology is what it is, and it does not directly determine your personality.
It is harmful for people to keep going around saying that being male or female is about acting and feeling a certain way. This is precisely the way gender roles were created, and it has led to anyone who doesn't fit in experiencing anything from ostracism to murder. So many people these days think it is cool and progressive to say they don't "feel" like their sex and identify as something else, but it is not. It is misusing terms, it is emulating the oppressive and divisive tactic of putting a label on everyone outside of the "norm," and it is reinforcing the idea that all females/males have to be some certain way, and if they are not, they somehow aren't really male/female.
You don't have to define yourself as anything. Just live your life and be yourself. |
Well I am not much into gender roles....I mean I've tried just rejecting gender roles in general but that does not seem to address the feeling weird if referred to as a woman...or liking it when people confuse me as a guy rather than a female. So I am just trying to figure out what specifically that is hinting at. But i don't think males and females have to fit a specific gender role at all, but most females I know like being a 'woman' or guys I know like being a guy...they don't seem to feel uncomfortable in that like I do.
But yeah like for instance my brother wears make up....but he is perfectly comfortable being a male, he just likes make up and does not care if most people think its for girls. With me part of why I dress like a guy often and don't really wear make up is because i am not exactly comfortable being in my specific gender not just because I like to. If that makes any amount of sense.
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Rauhiss
Raven
Joined: Mar 26, 2012
Age: 22
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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Biologically female, but identify more as male/masculine?
Or identify more as gender-neutral/nongender?
As already mentioned, sex =/= gender.
Plenty of people are of the female sex but identify as male gender, or vicey-versey. |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
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Age: 23
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Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Rauhiss wrote: | Biologically female, but identify more as male/masculine?
Or identify more as gender-neutral/nongender?
Not exactly sure, that's why I'm kind of confused about it...I have thought about both ideas, and I am not sure exactly. I have not tried identifying as male/masculine or gender neutral yet, maybe that would be a good way to find out. I am not very confident though so I cant imagine how i would try to explain it to anyone....but I don't have to worry about that this instant.
As already mentioned, sex =/= gender.
Plenty of people are of the female sex but identify as male gender, or vicey-versey. |
I know sex does not necessarily = gender....as there are males who identify as females and females who identify as males. Obviously the biological and psychological genders do not always match up. At least according to a documentary I saw in sociology when I was in college and the professor who taught it. So I certainly see that.
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starkid
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Age: 32
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:34 pm Post subject: Re: A Rant |
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| Sweetleaf wrote: |
Well I am not much into gender roles....I mean I've tried just rejecting gender roles in general but that does not seem to address the feeling weird if referred to as a woman...or liking it when people confuse me as a guy rather than a female. So I am just trying to figure out what specifically that is hinting at. |
Well, it could be a number of things, but the main point I was making it that, whatever the reasons for you feelings are, it has nothing to do with what sex you are.
It could be the ideas you connect with certain words. For example, I used to have trouble thinking of myself as a "lady" because I associated the word with older, conservative women, and I was in my twenties and wild.
Don't know where you live, but in most societies in this world, guys get more respect than women. That's a possible reason for preferring to be seen as a guy. There's the possible ego boost of not being seen as "just like other women," someone special. Maybe you just think it's fun to have people confused about whether you are a guy or not, I've heard that one before. I'm just throwing ideas around. 
| Quote: | | most females I know like being a 'woman' or guys I know like being a guy...they don't seem to feel uncomfortable in that like I do. |
Some people naturally fit into the whole gender role thing easier. It fits their personality. It makes some people feel good to fit in. Some people are barely paying attention and just don't care. |
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starkid
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Rauhiss wrote: | Biologically female, but identify more as male/masculine?
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This is exactly the type of mixing up of ideas that I was talking about. It is like people don't realize that they are implying that there is some magical thing called "male" or "female" that is all in our heads. It is not possible to "identify" as male. What would it even mean to identify as a reproductive sex? Because that is ALL that male is, a reproductive sex. There is no other thing called "male" that is about feelings and thoughts. Sweatleaf is female, therefore all her knowledge of maleness is second-hand. How could she identify as something she is not, and cannot know what it is like? What sense would that make? |
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Sweetleaf
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Age: 23
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Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:45 pm Post subject: Re: A Rant |
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| starkid wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: |
Well I am not much into gender roles....I mean I've tried just rejecting gender roles in general but that does not seem to address the feeling weird if referred to as a woman...or liking it when people confuse me as a guy rather than a female. So I am just trying to figure out what specifically that is hinting at. |
Well, it could be a number of things, but the main point I was making it that, whatever the reasons for you feelings are, it has nothing to do with what sex you are.
It could be the ideas you connect with certain words. For example, I used to have trouble thinking of myself as a "lady" because I associated the word with older, conservative women, and I was in my twenties and wild.
Well to me it feels like it has quite a bit to do with my gender or sex or whatever, I mean that is what this concernes so I guess I am not sure how that doesn't pertain at all. I mean its nothing about gender roles that makes me uncomfortable its just I don't feel like I am the gender I am. I don't know its weird and confusing to me, but I've never really tried fitting the female stereotype and I don't feel like I have to or anything.......I just still feel uncomfortable with it.
Don't know where you live, but in most societies in this world, guys get more respect than women. That's a possible reason for preferring to be seen as a guy. There's the possible ego boost of not being seen as "just like other women," someone special. Maybe you just think it's fun to have people confused about whether you are a guy or not, I've heard that one before. I'm just throwing ideas around.
Hmm don't know about that...I mean it seems that could be debated both ways but I don't feel like I will get more respect for being seen as a guy, but yeah those are possible ideas.
| Quote: | | most females I know like being a 'woman' or guys I know like being a guy...they don't seem to feel uncomfortable in that like I do. |
Some people naturally fit into the whole gender role thing easier. It fits their personality. It makes some people feel good to fit in. Some people are barely paying attention and just don't care. |
I am not exactly talking about gender roles.....I mean for instance to fit the male role you don't wear make up, well my brother wears make up and he still views himself as just as much of a male. So yeah Its not the role of being female I am concerned about though obviously if I don't feel comfortable considering myself a woman I would not like fitting that gender role. I don't know I guess its more of a feeling of being sort of uncomfortable in my physical body......but as I said before I don't want to change that I just don't want to identify as it...but then I don't totally view myself as a guy or anything. I don't know if that makes sense but its hard to try and describe this with words.
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Kail
Deinonychus
Joined: Feb 24, 2011
Age: 21
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Location: MEXICO
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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Everyone is a genius but if you judge a fish by it's ability to climb a tree it will live it;s entire life thinking that it is stupid!
ALBERT EINSTEIN! YES!
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Sweetleaf
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| starkid wrote: | | Rauhiss wrote: | Biologically female, but identify more as male/masculine?
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This is exactly the type of mixing up of ideas that I was talking about. It is like people don't realize that they are implying that there is some magical thing called "male" or "female" that is all in our heads. It is not possible to "identify" as male. What would it even mean to identify as a reproductive sex? Because that is ALL that male is, a reproductive sex. There is no other thing called "male" that is about feelings and thoughts. Sweatleaf is female, therefore all her knowledge of maleness is second-hand. How could she identify as something she is not, and cannot know what it is like? What sense would that make? |
This is kind of why I deleted my first one...to avoid someone trying to totally dis-validate how I'm feeling about this and that its been kind of an issue for me......I just hardly talk about it because I prefer to avoid people reacting that way.
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Rauhiss
Raven
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Age: 22
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| starkid wrote: | | This is exactly the type of mixing up of ideas that I was talking about. It is like people don't realize that they are implying that there is some magical thing called "male" or "female" that is all in our heads. It is not possible to "identify" as male. What would it even mean to identify as a reproductive sex? Because that is ALL that male is, a reproductive sex. There is no other thing called "male" that is about feelings and thoughts. Sweatleaf is female, therefore all her knowledge of maleness is second-hand. How could she identify as something she is not, and cannot know what it is like? What sense would that make? |
It's identifying more with the societal construct of "masculinity", that is, being tough, strong, and all that crap we see in the popular media, than with the construct of "femininity", the frilly pink dieting nonsense.
You can be an anatomical girl and feel "girly", like wearing dresses and having your hair done, or feel "boyish", and prefer playing in the dirt, roughhousing, and have no problem wearing the same shirt three days in a row.
Everyone has a little bit of both, but most folks personalities tend to lean more one way or the other, and they don't necessarily align with their plumbing downstairs.
Yes, 99% of the "gender" we feel is as a construct of the popular media and such, but there are plenty of people who feel that they're more in tune with the gender that society has assigned to the sex that isn't theirs. |
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Kail
Deinonychus
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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I just watched one flew over the cookoo's nest.
History lost every ounce of validity.
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starkid
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:03 am Post subject: Re: A Rant |
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| Sweetleaf wrote: |
I mean its nothing about gender roles that makes me uncomfortable its just I don't feel like I am the gender I am. |
I guess I have to ask you to say what you mean by gender then. The only "gender" I know is the separate gender roles males and females are generally expected to fit into.
| Quote: |
I am not exactly talking about gender roles.....I mean for instance to fit the male role you don't wear make up, well my brother wears make up and he still views himself as just as much of a male.
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I think you don't understand what I mean by "gender roles." Gender roles are things that are forced on people by their society, regardless of what the individual wants. There is typically one for females and one for males, and they are generally very different. When people don't play by the rules, they get treated like trash. Your brother is definitely stepping outside the male gender role if he is wearing make-up. It's not about how he feels; there is a "rule" that males don't wear make-up (differs somewhat from society to society). If he goes into part of his society where they take those rules very seriously, he could get dirty looks or even physically attacked. That's what I'm talking about.
| Quote: | | I don't know I guess its more of a feeling of being sort of uncomfortable in my physical body......but as I said before I don't want to change that I just don't want to identify as it... |
I'm not sure what it means to identify as your "physical body." Maybe you mean, you don't want it to be a big deal that you are female? Like, it's just your body, not the total of who you are? |
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