Shadewraith
Sea Gull
Joined: Nov 20, 2011
Age: 27
Posts: 223
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 Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:50 am Post subject: Sadism - How far does our lack of empathy go? |
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I'm beginning to admit to myself that I'm sadistic. At first, I thought it was PTSD combined with my lack of empathy from being an aspie. But I think it goes a little deeper than that. I desire to hurt people. When I'm worked up, I look at videos and pictures of people suffering (terrible car accidents, torture, death, etc.) and it actually calms me down, makes my heart rate and breathing slower. I have sadistic thoughts all the time.
Now, I don't think about hurting the ones close to me, like my best friend or my fiancee. And I couldn't imagine hurting my cats (or any cats for that matter), but everyone is fair game for my sadistic fantasies. I put myself into positions where I'd have to retaliate or where I cause two people to get into physical confrontations. The thought of controlling people like puppets or watching them writhe in agony is satisfying to me.
Is this a lack of empathy gone too far? Do other aspies have these types of thoughts? I've brought it up to my doctors on several occasions and they seem to ignore it. When they do, I imagine jumping off of the couch, pinning their face to the ground, and yelling "I need help!" into their ear. Since they're useless when it comes to this, I now ask the WP community, is sadism a symptom of something, is it something other aspies experience, or am I just evil? I don't believe I'm a psychopath or a sociopath because I do care about (very few) people and animals. Some people might think I'm narcissistic, but I don't. I've never had any major problems with the law and I'm certainly not charming.
If you need more information in order to give me a suggestion, feel free to ask.
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Rob-N4RPS
Snowy Owl
Joined: Jul 13, 2011
Age: 51
Posts: 151
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina, USA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:03 am Post subject: |
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Hello!
Exactly what is going on inside you is something that can only a qualfied mental health professional can properly diagnose and treat, but it sounds to me that you suffer from far more than simply a lack of empathy as a result of having Asperger's. Any doctor with whom you share what you just shared HERE SHOULD have ALARM BELLS going off in their heads.
What IS a good sign is that you DO realize that something out-of-the-ordinary is going on here.
I hope you will pursue finding someone who can give you the help you appear to need further.
73 DE N4RPS/3
Rob
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edgewaters
hibernating
Joined: Aug 17, 2006
Age: 40
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Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:11 am Post subject: |
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I have none of these sorts of feelings but my take on sadism is that its not a lack of empathy, its empathy gone wrong. If another person's experiences were of no concern, you couldn't possibly feel anything about them suffering, one way or the other.
I would definately seek help for this. I would say it's a symptom of something much more serious than Asperger's, yes. If your doctor isn't listening to you, I consider getting another doctor - or even calling up the medical association that licenses doctors in your area and talking to them about him. |
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Inyanook
Sea Gull
Joined: Apr 14, 2012
Age: 19
Posts: 204
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:32 am Post subject: |
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| shadewraith wrote: | | I put myself into positions where I'd have to retaliate or where I cause two people to get into physical confrontations. |
I'm sorry, is this within your fantasies, or in reality? That is, have you enacted any of your fantasies, or come close to doing so?
| shadewraith wrote: | | Do other aspies have these types of thoughts? |
Yes is the short answer, but the thought does not imply the compulsion.
Speaking from my own experience, I couldn't class my violent thoughts as fantasizing. Nor are they all that frequent, unless I'm under considerable anxiety. They don't usually bother me, and when I do react to them (which is rare, no matter how depraved they get) I am usually just somewhat disturbed. Bear in mind that I do have a higher sense of empathy than a lot of other aspies, though — partially learned, I think, but still. Once I went so far as to become highly agitated and resorted to mild self-harm for the sake of distracting myself, because I thought it was indicative of a sick mind. Now I know that it was not, and I pay them no heed.
Your situation is obviously very different, as from what you've said these thoughts are definitely "fantasies" and are accompanied by the desire to fulfill them.
| shadewraith wrote: | | Is this a lack of empathy gone too far? |
Hm. I couldn't say. I wouldn't think that merely lacking empathy entails the desire to hurt someone. I'd think this is indicative of deeper psychological issues.
| shadewraith wrote: | | I now ask the WP community, is sadism a symptom of something, is it something other aspies experience, or am I just evil? |
No, you're not evil. I imagine other aspies have experienced this, but I'm not sure it would be limited to the Asperger's world — I'm sure there have been neurotypical people who would be classed as sadistic.
Now then.
There is a difference between fantasy and reality, of course. What I mean by this is that just because you might fantasize about something does not mean you'd bring it into reality — I have fantasies that I would never wish to occur in real life, and I am not worried about the possibility that someday I'd be compelled to bring them into reality. It's simply not going to happen, and so I'm unconcerned.
So the question is — you say the thought of hurting others appeals to you. Are the fantasies desirable within the realm of fantasy, or are they desirable because you want to commit them in the real world? Where is the line between fantasy and reality, here? Perhaps you need to draw a line between them. Perhaps you already have drawn that line. If you cannot, then — undeniably — you do need help of some kind, and it is admirable that you're seeking it. Maybe you need to express your concerns more fully to your doctors, or find a new therapist who would be more willing to deal with it. This is not the kind of thing that can or should be dismissed.
And yes, no; clearly you're not psychopathic or sociopathic. It seems that in other areas you're well-adjusted, and I have little doubt that when you care about someone you are a caring person. Regardless, you certainly should see a mental health professional — either the ones you're currently seeing, or someone else.
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Callista
Phoenix
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Age: 30
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Location: Central USA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:32 am Post subject: |
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My fantasies about myself and other people are usually of me doing something really cool that makes them admire me; like if I invented something great or saved somebody's life or something like that. Pretty standard stuff, I guess.
If somebody gave you the chance to do some of these things without the possibility of getting caught, would you?
If the answer is yes, go get help. Now. Sooner or later you probably would end up doing something to someone, perhaps impulsively; and inevitably you would be caught, and you would ruin your life and other people's. You don't want that to happen.
If you wouldn't do it, then what you have is disturbing, probably unhealthy, but not an emergency. Perhaps it's simply a disguised fetish (though that's something for Adult discussion), or perhaps an unusually morbid interest in human suffering. It probably means that you have problems; but if you aren't in danger of hurting someone because of it, then you probably just need therapy for whatever's causing you to obsess over this kind of thing.
I agree with the people who have posted that this is "empathy gone wrong"--not a lack of empathy; that if you didn't connect with other people, their suffering would not be exciting to you. It simply wouldn't affect you. The "lack of empathy" that autistic people have is not a lack of caring, but simply a lack of the NT tendency to absorb the emotions of the people around you. For example, I don't pick up the desire to cheer at a sporting event, cry at a funeral, or laugh along with others at something I don't personally find funny. That's the "lack of empathy" they are referring to. It doesn't refer to a lack of altruism; autistic people are just as likely to want to help others and act in pro-social ways as non-autistic people are.
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ThinkTrees
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Joined: Apr 06, 2012
Posts: 218
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:45 am Post subject: |
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The fact that you're questioning your compulsion indicates that you are not evil.
I would suggest you stick with that questioning position, and find the source of the compulsions, probably with the help of a therapist of some kind. There's something at the bottom of this, it's grown from something in your history, and a bit of time spent uncovering the layers should get you to the origin, and a place of greater peace & understanding within yourself.
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Asp-Z
Clockwork Planet
Joined: Dec 07, 2009
Posts: 11016
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:18 am Post subject: Re: Sadism - How far does our lack of empathy go? |
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| Shadewraith wrote: | | Now, I don't think about hurting the ones close to me, like my best friend or my fiancee. And I couldn't imagine hurting my cats (or any cats for that matter), but everyone is fair game for my sadistic fantasies. I put myself into positions where I'd have to retaliate or where I cause two people to get into physical confrontations. The thought of controlling people like puppets or watching them writhe in agony is satisfying to me. |
Snap!
Heh, I don't think that's a problem. Depends on how serious you are about doing it in real life. If you want to go out seriously injuring people because of this I'd perhaps seek help, but if it's just fantasies that you find enjoyable or if you only do very small things IRL (like manipulate people to do little things for fun) then there's nothing to worry about IMO. |
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LennytheWicked
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Joined: Oct 23, 2011
Posts: 516
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:12 am Post subject: |
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I have a sort of preemptive reflex that I run through in my head every time I get into a confrontation, possibly as part of learning Taekwondo. When I expect people to get angry, I expect them to attack, and so I imagine what I could do if they punch several times until the confrontation is over. I very much like sparring, but it's more because I get a rush out of moving around so much [I get the same kind of rush from running or doing sit ups].
I also think up imaginary characters and stuff them into horrid situations, but I would never want anyone to be in those situations in real life. As I've learned from actually seeing someone in a similar situation, someone getting beaten up in a story is A-OK. Someone getting beaten up in real life is bad, and I've stepped in to stop people fighting. [I've also gotten yelled at for doing such, which tells you something about my own empathy compared to my peers' empathy.] |
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Joe90
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Joined: Feb 24, 2010
Posts: 8234
Location: Great Britain
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:38 am Post subject: |
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OHH STOP SAYING LACK OF EMPATHY IS AN AUTISTIC TRAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If NTs had empathy, how come they can't feel for us (and other mental conditions)?
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ThinkTrees
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:47 am Post subject: |
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Good point.
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monstermunch
Snowy Owl
Joined: May 10, 2011
Posts: 163
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| Joe90 wrote: | OHH STOP SAYING LACK OF EMPATHY IS AN AUTISTIC TRAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If NTs had empathy, how come they can't feel for us (and other mental conditions)? |
You are right, and I am neurotypical myself. It seems that the majority of people only feel empathy for others who have the same sort of issues or share the same sort of thoughts. I'm not saying the same applies to everyone because it doesn't, but I've found it does for most people who I have met.
My friend is going through a divorce with her husband, and it is a very stressful time in her life plus having two small children involved, and shes been feeling depressed and down and she is very close to her sister but her sister just criticises her and tells her to forget about it and be glad when the divorce is through, but that isn't very helpful advice when someone is feeling anxious or stressed about something. But her sister says that because she is wrapped up in her love life and don't seem to care about anything else. But I know that if something happens to her relationship I bet she be running back to my friend soon enough. |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
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Age: 23
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Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:02 am Post subject: |
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I don't think aspies commonly lack empathy, I think its typically just harder for us to express it....I thought that we totally lack empathy was more of a stereotype but not exactly accurate.
Its possible you might lack empathy and have AS, but I don't know that, that's the case with the majority with AS.
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Shadewraith
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Age: 27
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for the suggestions. When I see my doctor again, I'll make him listen.
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Orr
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 12, 2011
Posts: 563
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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A doctor might prescribe medication for what you describe, and if they do not help, or the symptoms get worse, you should let them know immediately.
Always tell your doctor if you are having this problem, they may seem unperturbed, but should be taking note of what you say.
I would expect your medication, if you are medicated, to be targeted at helping with this.
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CloudLayer
Deinonychus
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Age: 26
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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Obviously good & advisable to pursue getting a doctor to listen to you on this, but also, wanted to say:
It sounds similar to thoughts I used to have that calmed me down of things I would do to myself or have done to me. In these thoughts things that in real life would end my life or at the very least hurt a lot did not hurt and were a release from the distress and pain I was feeling.
If a distressing compulsive thought about something that was happening in my life could not be driven out of my mind and was torturing me, this was the most reliable way of getting rid of those thoughts. It "punished" me but I also don't feel the pain in the thoughts, and escaped into another reality where my emotionally painful and distressing concerns of the moment did not exist or matter. In a way the person who violent stuff got done to in my mind wasn't even me but a copy of me containing all my guilt and sadness, so the guilt and sadness would be gone if that copy was gotten rid of. I wonder if these thoughts of yours are similar, except that you are placing the pain in a person not explicitly identified as you but still not your core self, so any emotional stress and pain you feel in your life gets embodied by these characters (people in videos, etc.) and the pain in banished from your mind when they are injured or destroyed.
Anyway that is just my personal experience on the topic that you may or may not find provides some context; definitely make sure doctors don't pass over your comments again, they would be able to help you best. |
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