Joker
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 Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:03 pm Post subject: How is Liberalism diffrent in Europe then in America |
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| I just wana know how it is diffrent pleas elaborate. |
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Tequila
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Joker
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Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Tequila wrote: | | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism#Europe |
I would like to hear your own opinons about it because I admire your posts Tequila. |
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AstroGeek
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| In terms of actual policies they support, they are quite similar from my understanding. It's just that Europe is way to the left of Europe, so in the USA liberals make up the left, while in Europe those positions are considered to the right. |
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Joker
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Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| AstroGeek wrote: | | In terms of actual policies they support, they are quite similar from my understanding. It's just that Europe is way to the left of Europe, so in the USA liberals make up the left, while in Europe those positions are considered to the right. |
Hmm that is very interesting so it is in reverse then cool. |
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Vigilans
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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It exists somewhat
_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do |
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Tequila
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Location: Lancashire, UK
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| AstroGeek wrote: | | In terms of actual policies they support, they are quite similar from my understanding. |
Not necessarily. Liberalism in Europe has a far wider spectrum than what is referred to as 'liberal' in this US. Liberal can be anything from right-wing classical liberalism to very social liberal (i.e. American-type) liberalism. Having said that, I don't think that a lot of so-called 'liberal' parties are particularly liberal these days. Look at the British Liberal Democrats for instance. |
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TM
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Joined: Feb 04, 2012
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Joker wrote: | | AstroGeek wrote: | | In terms of actual policies they support, they are quite similar from my understanding. It's just that Europe is way to the left of Europe, so in the USA liberals make up the left, while in Europe those positions are considered to the right. |
Hmm that is very interesting so it is in reverse then cool. |
Obama and most of the democratic party are to the right of most conservative/right-wing parties in Europe, except on the immigration issue. I also happen to think that the "consevative-liberal" spectrum is less telling than it should be, because on the "liberal" wing, you have everything from hardline communists, environmentalists, social libertarians, social democrats, anarchists and so on.
Then on the right you have everything from economic liberalists, Rand sycophants, Evangelical Cristian reactionaries, actual conservatives and so on.
In my case, I'm extremely far to the left on social liberties but I'm also largely a responsible capitalist. Which means that no party represents me.
I also have to agree with Tequila's post from above, that most "liberal" European parties aren't that liberal anymore as they have mostly adopted variants on a social-democratic platform (Market-socialism) so to speak. |
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CrazyCatLord
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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In Germany, liberalism is basically what is called libertarianism in the USA. (Whereas the German equivalent of U.S. liberalism -- the ideal, not Obama's right-wing realpolitik -- is called social democracy). The FDP, the German liberal party, emphasizes civil liberties, small government, privatization of public sector services, and a largely unregulated market.
Last edited by CrazyCatLord on Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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AstroGeek
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Tequila wrote: | | AstroGeek wrote: | | In terms of actual policies they support, they are quite similar from my understanding. |
Not necessarily. Liberalism in Europe has a far wider spectrum than what is referred to as 'liberal' in this US. Liberal can be anything from right-wing classical liberalism to very social liberal (i.e. American-type) liberalism. Having said that, I don't think that a lot of so-called 'liberal' parties are particularly liberal these days. Look at the British Liberal Democrats for instance. |
True, but most of the mainstream liberal parties in Europe are at least vaguely social liberals. American liberals talk as though they are social liberals but really aren't in terms of most of the policies that they enact (nor are they classical liberals--they are the weird corporatist thing unique to the USA). What you are thinking of is more along the lines of the Liberal Party of Canada, I believe. They roughly correspond to the Liberal-Democrats, although due to long-standing enmity between the two they would never form a coalition with the Conservative Party of Canada. That is what I consider to be liberalism by today's standards. Of course, I understand your objection--it is similar to my statements that Socialist International no longer represents anything like socialism or even social democracy.
@TM: I don't think there are any hard-line communists that support the Democrats. Maybe some soft-line socialists, but not communists. And you'd better not call a communist a liberal--they would not appreciate it! |
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TM
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| AstroGeek wrote: |
@TM: I don't think there are any hard-line communists that support the Democrats. Maybe some soft-line socialists, but not communists. And you'd better not call a communist a liberal--they would not appreciate it! |
I didn't mean it as "supports democrats" or "are liberals", I was just pointing out that not everyone on the right is a conservative and not everyone on the left is a liberal, and that the traditional right-left organization of political ideologies is inadequate. After all, I'm a hardcore social liberal, to the point of "You have the freedom to do whatever you like, as long as you do not encroach on another person's freedom." yet the spectrum puts me with those dirty commies. 
I don't like being called a liberal either, because liberals tend to be like creamy peanutbutter, no nuts. In essence, I'm for social freedom, but I'm more likely to beat someone to death with a "Stop the violence" picket sign as opposed to carrying one. |
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Tequila
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| TM wrote: | | I also have to agree with Tequila's post from above, that most "liberal" European parties aren't that liberal anymore as they have mostly adopted variants on a social-democratic platform (Market-socialism) so to speak. |
Indeed. Most 'liberal' political parties here aren't at all. Which is why, in Britain, I've ended up in a party of conservative hardline eurosceptics because they are the only party that vaguely represents my views, even if I disagree many times with a large proportion of my fellow members.
TM: What are the Progress Party like in Norway? I was very impressed with Christian Tybring-Gjedde when I heard him speak on YouTube a year or two back. |
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Joker
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Thank you all for the posts and the new information I so wish America was like Europe I love Europe the history the people the culture everything about it I would love to visit the UK England Germany France ect such culture I mean real culture something America seems to lack in my opinon. |
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Tequila
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Location: Lancashire, UK
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Joker wrote: | | Thank you all for the posts and the new information I so wish America was like Europe I love Europe the history the people the culture everything about it I would love to visit the UK England Germany France ect such culture I mean real culture something America seems to lack in my opinon. |
England is in the UK. |
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TM
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Tequila wrote: | | TM wrote: | | I also have to agree with Tequila's post from above, that most "liberal" European parties aren't that liberal anymore as they have mostly adopted variants on a social-democratic platform (Market-socialism) so to speak. |
Indeed. Most 'liberal' political parties here aren't at all. Which is why, in Britain, I've ended up in a party of conservative hardline eurosceptics because they are the only party that vaguely represents my views, even if I disagree many times with a large proportion of my fellow members.
TM: What are the Progress Party like in Norway? I was very impressed with Christian Tybring-Gjedde when I heard him speak on YouTube a year or two back. |
The progress party isn't half bad but they do have issues. One issue is the portrayal of the party in the media, since most of the media in the country is either owned by organizations that are labor party supporters or receive financial support by the state, in most cases both. This means that any scandal within the party receives much more attention and more vitriol than scandals within other parties.
The second problem is that other parties seem less inclined to work with the progress party or incorporate the good ideas the party has until about 10 - 15 years have passed. Their party elite, on both social issues and economic issues is second to none in the country and for the most part, they seem to keep their ear closer to the ground than other parties.
Currently it looks like they may get their first real shot at being in government come the next parliamentary election, in a coalition with either just our version of the Tories, or possibly with the Christian People's Party and the Norwegian Right party (Tory). It kind of depends on how the immigration debate turns out after the trial of Behring-Breivik, if more scandals of financial misconduct among the current coalition government surface and so on. |
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