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Roman
Phoenix
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Joined: Mar 18, 2005
Posts: 2301
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 Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 1:50 pm Post subject: The reason why LJBF hurts |
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I read on various other forums ladies were saying that when the guy "dismisses" their friendship unless he gets a "reward", it indicates that he was using the woman as a "sex object",and they try to point out how friendship has its own value, with or without reward. I do see their point and, in fact, I don't think any man really addressed it properly (at least not in the posts that I read). Let me therefore go ahead and try to explain my side of the story to the women who think along these lines.
So basically, it has nothing to do with reward itself. Instead, it has to do with the motive behind withholding the reward. Lets put sex aside for a second and imagine different situation. Suppose we were living in one of these old fashioned families that would serve the food first to the most respected member. And suppose I was consistently given the food last. In this case, I won't want to be friends with them either. Now, does this mean I am "using" people for food? No! I simply don't like to feel put down. Now with relationships it is the same thing. Women traditionally select the man based on status. So the fact that the woman is not willing to be my girlfriend is a reflection of the fact that she sees me as low status. Now, why would anyone (male or female) want to be friends with anyone else (male or female) who judges them? They won't.
And to make my point even stronger: I don't even want to have sex before marriage (for religious reasons) and I am too afraid to marry any time soon. So whatever relationship I would agree to have, would be without sex, by default. But, despite all that, I still find it insulting when I hear "lets just be friends" for the reason cited above. So, at least in my case, being insulted by LJBF has nothing to do with "using" anyone for sex (which I don't want to have anyway). |
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AScomposer13413
Complacent Composer
Joined: Feb 02, 2012
Posts: 2084
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: The reason why LJBF hurts |
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| Roman wrote: | I read on various other forums ladies were saying that when the guy "dismisses" their friendship unless he gets a "reward", it indicates that he was using the woman as a "sex object",and they try to point out how friendship has its own value, with or without reward. I do see their point and, in fact, I don't think any man really addressed it properly (at least not in the posts that I read). Let me therefore go ahead and try to explain my side of the story to the women who think along these lines.
So basically, it has nothing to do with reward itself. Instead, it has to do with the motive behind withholding the reward. Lets put sex aside for a second and imagine different situation. Suppose we were living in one of these old fashioned families that would serve the food first to the most respected member. And suppose I was consistently given the food last. In this case, I won't want to be friends with them either. Now, does this mean I am "using" people for food? No! I simply don't like to feel put down. Now with relationships it is the same thing. Women traditionally select the man based on status. So the fact that the woman is not willing to be my girlfriend is a reflection of the fact that she sees me as low status. Now, why would anyone (male or female) want to be friends with anyone else (male or female) who judges them? They won't.
And to make my point even stronger: I don't even want to have sex before marriage (for religious reasons) and I am too afraid to marry any time soon. So whatever relationship I would agree to have, would be without sex, by default. But, despite all that, I still find it insulting when I hear "lets just be friends" for the reason cited above. So, at least in my case, being insulted by LJBF has nothing to do with "using" anyone for sex (which I don't want to have anyway). |
I'm not sure the part in bold is accurate, seeing as all of us regardless of gender have lots more criteria to a potential partner than just status. Otherwise, I pretty much agree with everything you've said. Of course, all of this trouble could be avoided if we all just state our intentions from the get-go, but to each their own, I guess  |
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lilbetta
Snowy Owl
Joined: Apr 10, 2012
Age: 22
Posts: 153
Location: my own lil world
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: The reason why LJBF hurts |
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| Roman wrote: | | . Now with relationships it is the same thing. Women traditionally select the man based on status. So the fact that the woman is not willing to be my girlfriend is a reflection of the fact that she sees me as low status. |
If that is how you have experienced relationships and beleive that is why a couple becomes something more that is very sad... True this ocurs in many cases but in no way is it the only reason and when it comes to love... there is no explaination like that... to select someone based on status is shallow and naive... so i dont think that is how it happens in most cases... |
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Roman
Phoenix
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Joined: Mar 18, 2005
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: The reason why LJBF hurts |
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| lilbetta wrote: | | Roman wrote: | | . Now with relationships it is the same thing. Women traditionally select the man based on status. So the fact that the woman is not willing to be my girlfriend is a reflection of the fact that she sees me as low status. |
If that is how you have experienced relationships and beleive that is why a couple becomes something more that is very sad... True this ocurs in many cases but in no way is it the only reason and when it comes to love... there is no explaination like that... to select someone based on status is shallow and naive... so i dont think that is how it happens in most cases... |
It is true that women don't "fall in love with someone because of the status", but it is still true that low social status can "disqualify" someone from being a "potential" mate. For example, suppose some homeless girl who is constantly taking drugs would want to be with me. Would I want her? No. So it seems like a lot of women perceive aspies as low social status so they get disqualified for that same reason.
Now, of course, it is possible that someone has high status but the love simply "didn't happen". But then how do you know that it won't happen in the future? The very fact that a girl goes out of the way to make a decision ahead of time that she will "Never" be in love with someone indicates some kind of judgement. Perhaps status judgement. |
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Kurgan
I'm always right
Joined: Apr 07, 2012
Age: 24
Posts: 1851
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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LJBF hurts because it rarely means friendship; it instead means "I'll dump my problems with some pretty boy onto you to boost my ego and get validated". If a girl gives you some cheap, sugarcoated excuse after a date, like "no chemisry" or "not ready for a relationship yet", just tell her "there's no platonic friend chemistry" or that you're not ready for a non-f..kbuddy friendship yet.
It's not gonna get you in bed with her, but will knock her ego down a bit. |
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AScomposer13413
Complacent Composer
Joined: Feb 02, 2012
Posts: 2084
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Kurgan wrote: | | LJBF hurts because it rarely means friendship; it instead means "I'll dump my problems with some pretty boy onto you to boost my ego and get validated". If a girl gives you some cheap, sugarcoated excuse after a date, like "no chemisry" or "not ready for a relationship yet", just tell her "there's no platonic friend chemistry" or that you're not ready for a non-f..kbuddy friendship yet. |
But doesn't that cheat you of a friendship as well? |
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Stargazer43
Scruffy-looking Nerf Herder
Joined: Nov 07, 2011
Posts: 1421
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| What does LJBF stand for? I don't like acronyms! |
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Kurgan
I'm always right
Joined: Apr 07, 2012
Age: 24
Posts: 1851
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| AScomposer13413 wrote: | | Kurgan wrote: | | LJBF hurts because it rarely means friendship; it instead means "I'll dump my problems with some pretty boy onto you to boost my ego and get validated". If a girl gives you some cheap, sugarcoated excuse after a date, like "no chemisry" or "not ready for a relationship yet", just tell her "there's no platonic friend chemistry" or that you're not ready for a non-f..kbuddy friendship yet. |
But doesn't that cheat you of a friendship as well? |
What friendship? The relationship between a girl (or sometimes a boy) and her (or his) emotional tampon is similar to a relationship between a queen and her jester. One does not use friends to boost one's ego. |
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AScomposer13413
Complacent Composer
Joined: Feb 02, 2012
Posts: 2084
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Stargazer43 wrote: | | What does LJBF stand for? I don't like acronyms! |
LJBF = "Let's Just Be Friends" |
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Roman
Phoenix
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Joined: Mar 18, 2005
Posts: 2301
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Kurgan wrote: | | AScomposer13413 wrote: | | Kurgan wrote: | | LJBF hurts because it rarely means friendship; it instead means "I'll dump my problems with some pretty boy onto you to boost my ego and get validated". If a girl gives you some cheap, sugarcoated excuse after a date, like "no chemisry" or "not ready for a relationship yet", just tell her "there's no platonic friend chemistry" or that you're not ready for a non-f..kbuddy friendship yet. |
But doesn't that cheat you of a friendship as well? |
What friendship? The relationship between a girl (or sometimes a boy) and her (or his) emotional tampon is similar to a relationship between a queen and her jester. One does not use friends to boost one's ego. |
You brought up an interesting point when you put "or sometimes a boy" in a parenthesis. Because talking about my past hurts is what I do, and in fact this is probably one of the main ways I turn ppl off. But I guess the difference between me and said girls is that in my case I talk about the past indiscriminately -- thats just who I am; but the girls you are talking about do that only with friends and not boyfriends. By the way, since self centered long monologue is a symptom of asperger, don't you do that as well sometimes?
Back to your point: I don't see anything wrong with the girl sharing with me her hurts. If anything this shows she trusts me. Well of course the exception would be if the topic of her complains is that she can't get anyone while I am right here in front of her and she is not even considering me -- in this case I would be upset of course. But if it is any other situation (such as her complaining to me about her past relationships, or talking to me about her poor school performance, or talking about being betrayed by her female friends) then I would actually enjoy being there for her.
Also when you mentioned that complaining makes her somehow "above you", you seem to have assumed that she is the only one who is allowed to complain. But how do you know that? Perhaps if you were to complain to her she would be listening to you just as much, you simply never tried to? Perhaps she even expects you to do just as much of emotional unloading, so by your not doing it you are the one who is making things unequal?
Like I said, to me, the one main thing that bothers me about LJBF is status. If she acts a certain way with me BECAUSE I am her friend and she won't do that with her boyfriend then there would be a "status" thing to be upset about (similar to example I mentioned earlier about being served food last). But if that one factor is out of the equation then I really don't see anything wrong.
Now that very last (status) thing WOULD indeed be the one reason why my attitude might change and why I might dislike the interaction I would otherwise enjoy. So this brings me to ask the following: just why do they do emotional unloading on their friends and not on their boyfriends? Aren't they supposed to be close to their boyfriends? If so, why not unload their emotions on them as well? This is the other thing that seems to suggest it is status. Its like they want their boyfriend to be "manly man" (status) and "manly man" isn't supposed to have emotions -- hence they have to look for someone else to emotional support. But that is so messed up. I wish the relationships were more about emotional connection than status, and then things would make a lot more sense. |
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AScomposer13413
Complacent Composer
Joined: Feb 02, 2012
Posts: 2084
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Roman wrote: | | I don't see anything wrong with the girl sharing with me her hurts. If anything this shows she trusts me. Well of course the exception would be if the topic of her complains is that she can't get anyone while I am right here in front of her and she is not even considering me -- in this case I would be upset of course. But if it is any other situation (such as her complaining to me about her past relationships, or talking to me about her poor school performance, or talking about being betrayed by her female friends) then I would actually enjoy being there for her. |
^ This, and to be honest, that's what it boils down to for me.
| Roman wrote: | | Also when you mentioned that complaining makes her somehow "above you", you seem to have assumed that she is the only one who is allowed to complain. But how do you know that? Perhaps if you were to complain to her she would be listening to you just as much, you simply never tried to? Perhaps she even expects you to do just as much of emotional unloading, so by your not doing it you are the one who is making things unequal? |
To be fair, society tries to condition us men not to have any emotional baggage I disregard it personally for the reasoning you stated, but that's for another thread. I have been in a relationship where the girl in question actually didn't want me complaining, so Kurgan's statement isn't completely inaccurate; it just doesn't apply to all women
| Roman wrote: | | Like I said, to me, the one main thing that bothers me about LJBF is status. If she acts a certain way with me BECAUSE I am her friend and she won't do that with her boyfriend then there would be a "status" thing to be upset about (similar to example I mentioned earlier about being served food last). But if that one factor is out of the equation then I really don't see anything wrong. |
Again, in agreement here. |
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Roman
Phoenix
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Joined: Mar 18, 2005
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| AScomposer13413 wrote: |
To be fair, society tries to condition us men not to have any emotional baggage. |
This brings up two issues:
1. Could it be that when the girl LJBF-s a guy she feels like he became female at least to some extend. And thats why she is doing girly things like sharing the emotions. If so, perhaps she expects him to share with her as well (after all she feels he is a girl) and simply doesn't realize that he, himself, still thinks of himself as a guy which is why he doesn't share, which ultimately makes the interaction one-sided.
2. If society specifically conditions men against sharing AND if Asperger makes one self centered, then Asperger would be something that men, specifically, are "conditioned not to have'. If so, could that explain why Asperger is diagnosed mostly in men? Perhaps women have Asperger just as much as men do, but the aspect of "talking about themselves" (which is what Asperger makes you do) won't really set them apart from the rest of women, hence they would go undiagnosed? |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Seems I am one of the few men on WP that never blames women. |
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Boxman108
"Oh...it's just a box."
Joined: Jan 03, 2012
Age: 21
Posts: 1399
Location: NH
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Joker wrote: | | Seems I am one of the few men on WP that never blames women. |
It's ok. You don't have to be a doormat anymore.
_________________
About suffering they were never wrong,
The Old Masters: how well they understood
Its human position; how it takes place
While someone else is eating or opening a window or
just walking dully along... |
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Joker
Sinn Fein
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 7593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Boxman108 wrote: | | Joker wrote: | | Seems I am one of the few men on WP that never blames women. |
It's ok. You don't have to be a doormat anymore. |
I was never a doormat women like me because I never say disrespecful things about them. I get along with women very well in fact so well that I never have problems getting a date. Like the one I am going on this weekend with a girl I went to school with.
Oh yes this is very true. |
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