|
spongy
...
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
Age: 22
Posts: 7409
Location: Patiently waiting for the seventh wave
|
 Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 2:10 am Post subject: are there double standards in L&D? |
 |
|
[mod note from hyperlexian: another thread ended up getting derailed after spongy made a thought-provoking point. but this discussion is worth having so i created a new thread here.
this is the original thread: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt197397.html ]
This thread provides a fine example of the main problem with the attitude of quite a few male members here.
We have rabitts here stating his personal preferences, which he is more than entitled to do btw, and none of the usual male members have said a thing about it.
If a female member had said anything remotely similar thereŽd be several pages of questioning from quite a few male members.
Double standards arent going to help you in the long run people. |
|
| Back to top |
|
rabbittss
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 30, 2011
Posts: 1348
|
| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 2:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| spongy wrote: | This thread provides a fine example of the main problem with the attitude of quite a few male members here.
We have rabitts here stating his personal preferences, which he is more than entitled to do btw, and none of the usual male members have said a thing about it.
If a female member had said anything remotely similar thereŽd be several pages of questioning from quite a few male members.
Double standards arent going to help you in the long run people. |
I don't have any double standards. I wouldn't except a 10 to want me. What I do expect is to wind up with a 6 or a 7, the range that I feel I fall into, and to not be expected to settle for a 3 or a 4 like I'm constantly being admonished for here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
spongy
...
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
Age: 22
Posts: 7409
Location: Patiently waiting for the seventh wave
|
| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 2:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| rabbittss wrote: | | spongy wrote: | This thread provides a fine example of the main problem with the attitude of quite a few male members here.
We have rabitts here stating his personal preferences, which he is more than entitled to do btw, and none of the usual male members have said a thing about it.
If a female member had said anything remotely similar thereŽd be several pages of questioning from quite a few male members.
Double standards arent going to help you in the long run people. |
I don't have any double standards. I wouldn't except a 10 to want me. What I do expect is to wind up with a 6 or a 7, the range that I feel I fall into, and to not be expected to settle for a 3 or a 4 like I'm constantly being admonished for here. |
I didnt say you have any double standards.
I put that you are more than entitled to state your personal opinion.
I was however refering to the way some members react when females state the same opinion. Those are the ones with double standards.
You are more than free to chose who to date and so is everyone else imo. |
|
| Back to top |
|
MXH
TomCat
Joined: Jul 29, 2010
Age: 22
Posts: 12488
Location: Here i stand and face the rain
|
| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 3:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
| spongy wrote: | This thread provides a fine example of the main problem with the attitude of quite a few male members here.
We have rabitts here stating his personal preferences, which he is more than entitled to do btw, and none of the usual male members have said a thing about it.
If a female member had said anything remotely similar thereŽd be several pages of questioning from quite a few male members.
Double standards arent going to help you in the long run people. |
I fail to see a double standard to be honest. Hes not complaining about not knowing why hes alone, he knows its because he has higher standards than he can get. Theres nothing to say to him. Its been said to enough to guys and girls around here that were clueless about having too strict standards that it is hurting their odds. He is the only one being hurt in this scenario.
Its also been said to people who say they want X and Y in a partner but always end up with guys that have Z. They must have a reason for that to happen. And the most common example is women with "nice guys" and "bad boys". That it is the most common example does not make it a double standard. |
|
| Back to top |
|
spongy
...
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
Age: 22
Posts: 7409
Location: Patiently waiting for the seventh wave
|
| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 4:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| MXH wrote: | | spongy wrote: | This thread provides a fine example of the main problem with the attitude of quite a few male members here.
We have rabitts here stating his personal preferences, which he is more than entitled to do btw, and none of the usual male members have said a thing about it.
If a female member had said anything remotely similar thereŽd be several pages of questioning from quite a few male members.
Double standards arent going to help you in the long run people. |
I fail to see a double standard to be honest. Hes not complaining about not knowing why hes alone, he knows its because he has higher standards than he can get. Theres nothing to say to him. Its been said to enough to guys and girls around here that were clueless about having too strict standards that it is hurting their odds. He is the only one being hurt in this scenario.
Its also been said to people who say they want X and Y in a partner but always end up with guys that have Z. They must have a reason for that to happen. And the most common example is women with "nice guys" and "bad boys". That it is the most common example does not make it a double standard. |
Several women have stated similar things/things that some of you assumed to be similar(by reading into them) and you jumped down their throat for several pages.
The fact that they see nothing wrong with a male saying it is by definition a double standard as far as I know |
|
| Back to top |
|
MXH
TomCat
Joined: Jul 29, 2010
Age: 22
Posts: 12488
Location: Here i stand and face the rain
|
| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 4:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
You didnt read my post well then, I said that he knows why hes having issues. Ive not seen a single post by a woman around here who admits she has issues because shes too picky and that people jumped on her. People would have agreed that she might be too picky or may attract a different type of guy than shes looking for.
ohh theres that, on the issue of double standards id say with few exceptions its guys approaching women. Which in itself is a double standard but follow through with me on this. A person that rejects everyone sub par is more likely to come off negative compared to a person that doesnt approach anyone sub par. |
|
| Back to top |
|
edgewaters
hibernating
Joined: Aug 17, 2006
Age: 40
Posts: 2426
Location: Ontario
|
| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 4:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| spongy wrote: | This thread provides a fine example of the main problem with the attitude of quite a few male members here.
We have rabitts here stating his personal preferences, which he is more than entitled to do btw, and none of the usual male members have said a thing about it.
If a female member had said anything remotely similar thereŽd be several pages of questioning from quite a few male members. |
Gee, thanks. Not insulted at all. |
|
| Back to top |
|
spongy
...
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
Age: 22
Posts: 7409
Location: Patiently waiting for the seventh wave
|
| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 4:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| edgewaters wrote: | | spongy wrote: | This thread provides a fine example of the main problem with the attitude of quite a few male members here.
We have rabitts here stating his personal preferences, which he is more than entitled to do btw, and none of the usual male members have said a thing about it.
If a female member had said anything remotely similar thereŽd be several pages of questioning from quite a few male members. |
Gee, thanks. Not insulted at all. |
Ive said it several times but here we go again:
Ive been asked to allow a certain amount of criticism towards the other sex/other members.
With that in mind I can either:
-A: do nothing and hope that members eventually stop with this pointless discussions. Tried that for several months, the result was that nothing changed.
-B: Provide my opinion on the matter the same way this people that are criticizing each other do. It doesnt seem to make much of a change either but this way at least I know I tried.
That being said if you have any issues with what I said I encourage you to approach any of the moderators about my post which is why I was asked to allow a certain amount of criticism between members. |
|
| Back to top |
|
edgewaters
hibernating
Joined: Aug 17, 2006
Age: 40
Posts: 2426
Location: Ontario
|
| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 5:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| spongy wrote: | Ive said it several times but here we go again:
Ive been asked to allow a certain amount of criticism towards the other sex/other members.
With that in mind I can either:
-A: do nothing and hope that members eventually stop with this pointless discussions. Tried that for several months, the result was that nothing changed.
-B: Provide my opinion on the matter the same way this people that are criticizing each other do. It doesnt seem to make much of a change either but this way at least I know I tried. |
I suggest you read my posts in this thread, take a look at my profile, then read what you wrote, noting the part I bolded.
I don't count or something? |
|
| Back to top |
|
DogsWithoutHorses
mockingbyrd
Joined: Apr 06, 2012
Posts: 1145
Location: New York
|
| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 5:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| edgewaters wrote: | | spongy wrote: | Ive said it several times but here we go again:
Ive been asked to allow a certain amount of criticism towards the other sex/other members.
With that in mind I can either:
-A: do nothing and hope that members eventually stop with this pointless discussions. Tried that for several months, the result was that nothing changed.
-B: Provide my opinion on the matter the same way this people that are criticizing each other do. It doesnt seem to make much of a change either but this way at least I know I tried. |
I suggest you read my posts in this thread, take a look at my profile, then read what you wrote, noting the part I bolded.
I don't count or something? |
I can't tell if you're being serious.
You're just unusually together, let's just say that. I don't think he was trying to put you down but since you don't trumpet your maleness with brazen misogyny there was an honest oversight.
_________________
If your success is defined as being well adjusted to injustice and well adapted to indifference, then we dont want successful leaders. We want great leaders- who are unbought, unbound, unafraid, and unintimidated to tell the truth. |
|
| Back to top |
|
spongy
...
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
Age: 22
Posts: 7409
Location: Patiently waiting for the seventh wave
|
| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 5:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| edgewaters wrote: | | spongy wrote: | Ive said it several times but here we go again:
Ive been asked to allow a certain amount of criticism towards the other sex/other members.
With that in mind I can either:
-A: do nothing and hope that members eventually stop with this pointless discussions. Tried that for several months, the result was that nothing changed.
-B: Provide my opinion on the matter the same way this people that are criticizing each other do. It doesnt seem to make much of a change either but this way at least I know I tried. |
I suggest you read my posts in this thread, take a look at my profile, then read what you wrote, noting the part I bolded.
I don't count or something? |
The usual male members was referring to the ones that have a tendency to attack female members the minute they provide a similar attitude and complain about double standards against males on society.
Im glad to see that some of the members dont have any double standards, I was just pointing out some of this martyrs bs.
For the record: I havent seen you doing any of the questioning on females and thats why I didnt take your post into account.
Sorry for any misunderstanding that may have happened. |
|
| Back to top |
|
MXH
TomCat
Joined: Jul 29, 2010
Age: 22
Posts: 12488
Location: Here i stand and face the rain
|
| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 5:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| spongy wrote: | | edgewaters wrote: | | spongy wrote: | Ive said it several times but here we go again:
Ive been asked to allow a certain amount of criticism towards the other sex/other members.
With that in mind I can either:
-A: do nothing and hope that members eventually stop with this pointless discussions. Tried that for several months, the result was that nothing changed.
-B: Provide my opinion on the matter the same way this people that are criticizing each other do. It doesnt seem to make much of a change either but this way at least I know I tried. |
I suggest you read my posts in this thread, take a look at my profile, then read what you wrote, noting the part I bolded.
I don't count or something? |
The usual male members was referring to the ones that have a tendency to attack female members the minute they provide a similar attitude and complain about double standards against males on society.
Im glad to see that some of the members dont have any double standards, I was just pointing out some of this martyrs bs. |
lets pretend for a second we dont have a thread telling guys that they should get "qualifications" before bothering with women. If anything its not just a double standard to guys but its also hurtful to women as it provides itself to be taken into a negative light of dating him for what he has wether its money or status.
Like i said, weve had threads about women whove admitted to being too picky. I dont recall it turning into anything more than trying to understand her situation and see how to help her. |
|
| Back to top |
|
edgewaters
hibernating
Joined: Aug 17, 2006
Age: 40
Posts: 2426
Location: Ontario
|
| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 5:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| DogsWithoutHorses wrote: | I can't tell if you're being serious.
You're just unusually together, let's just say that. I don't think he was trying to put you down but since you don't trumpet your maleness with brazen misogyny there was an honest oversight. |
Oh, now I'm "unusual" that's better. Look, you're not over on this side of the fence ... some of you don't seem to get this, but you're actually marginilizing people like me by perpetuating these stereotypes (which is what you're doing), and in the course of it, doing us both a disservice. You're not helping to normalize better behaviour when you discount it, declare it aberrant, etc. Quite the opposite. You're making it very difficult. |
|
| Back to top |
|
DogsWithoutHorses
mockingbyrd
Joined: Apr 06, 2012
Posts: 1145
Location: New York
|
| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 6:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| edgewaters wrote: |
Oh, now I'm "unusual" that's better. Look, you're not over on this side of the fence ... some of you don't seem to get this, but you're actually marginilizing people like me by perpetuating these stereotypes (which is what you're doing), and in the course of it, doing us both a disservice. You're not helping to normalize better behaviour when you discount it, declare it aberrant, etc. Quite the opposite. You're making it very difficult. |
Those aren't stereotypes, they are an assessment of the attitudes displayed by some members on these types of threads who happen to fit your demographic in one way (gender). The posters demonstrating the bad behavior are the ones perpetuating stereotypes, not the people calling them out. I think the post we're referring to, especially as it has been clarified, was not meant to address the behavior of all male posters. It seems more of a phrasing issue than a philosophical one.
I wasn't meaning to denigrate all maleness in any way, just the kind that feel the need to express it as being anti-woman. If I came across as anti-male instead of anti-misogynist I'm sorry and I'll make an effort to adjust my phrasing in future.
I appreciate your criticism, because of your posting history, I know you're approaching this in good faith.
| MXH wrote: |
lets pretend for a second we dont have a thread telling guys that they should get "qualifications" before bothering with women. If anything its not just a double standard to guys but its also hurtful to women as it provides itself to be taken into a negative light of dating him for what he has wether its money or status.
Like i said, weve had threads about women whove admitted to being too picky. I dont recall it turning into anything more than trying to understand her situation and see how to help her. |
No need to pretend since that topic was started by a male poster, phrased in an encouraging way (pointing out that autistics often excel in academia and that a study showed that could be a dating advantage) and his assertion has been contested.
Putting down any gender in general is bad for everyone.
But that's not what happened. What happened what a criticism of specific posting behavior overgeneralized to avoid attacking specific people.
And then my admittedly clunky attempt to spin a kind of goofy positive thing out of it that clearly misfired.
If you need help finding examples of women being accused of being overly picky check out the LGBF thread or the gaston thread. Any "women don't like ____ guys" stuff is criticizing women's standards (and generalizing, which I'm glad we agree isn't good). I'm not saying it's wrong, just that it happens.
Let's remember too that in real life there is a double standard for sexual agency and some times when things are so prevalent in our general culture they don't stick out and we don't notice when they happen.
_________________
If your success is defined as being well adjusted to injustice and well adapted to indifference, then we dont want successful leaders. We want great leaders- who are unbought, unbound, unafraid, and unintimidated to tell the truth. |
|
| Back to top |
|
MXH
TomCat
Joined: Jul 29, 2010
Age: 22
Posts: 12488
Location: Here i stand and face the rain
|
| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 7:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| DogsWithoutHorses wrote: | | MXH wrote: |
lets pretend for a second we dont have a thread telling guys that they should get "qualifications" before bothering with women. If anything its not just a double standard to guys but its also hurtful to women as it provides itself to be taken into a negative light of dating him for what he has wether its money or status.
Like i said, weve had threads about women whove admitted to being too picky. I dont recall it turning into anything more than trying to understand her situation and see how to help her. |
No need to pretend since that topic was started by a male poster, phrased in an encouraging way (pointing out that autistics often excel in academia and that a study showed that could be a dating advantage) and his assertion has been contested.
Putting down any gender in general is bad for everyone.
But that's not what happened. What happened what a criticism of specific posting behavior overgeneralized to avoid attacking specific people.
And then my admittedly clunky attempt to spin a kind of goofy positive thing out of it that clearly misfired.
If you need help finding examples of women being accused of being overly picky check out the LGBF thread or the gaston thread. Any "women don't like ____ guys" stuff is criticizing women's standards (and generalizing, which I'm glad we agree isn't good). I'm not saying it's wrong, just that it happens.
Let's remember too that in real life there is a double standard for sexual agency and some times when things are so prevalent in our general culture they don't stick out and we don't notice when they happen. |
That was a figure of speech, i know that topic exists.
Yes, even in those two threads you just mentioned as being overly hurtful to women did you even bother to think what it makes men sound like? the LJBF makes men sound as if we all have secret agendas and only plan on having sex then moving to the next woman. I only read the OP as i have no need to read 20 pages of BS and quote hell but i tell you this though. If people would stop promoting that men be friends with a girl they like before trying to form a relationship it creates situations like the one in the OP and friendzoning and such.
The gaston one, also i havent read it all but from what i got out of it started as comparing this character who all the girls in the movie except the main character fall for. Which to be fair is a valid question to ask, its not degrading women or saying anything about them. Its just asking do people actually like this. Its like asking if people actually like justin beiber songs.
thats another touchy thing, since this site is relatively spread out over many cultures what is ok in one might cause a shitstorm in another. I can think burkas as a fine example. Does it make the person saying that a woman hater? Not necessarily, I hear so many callouts of misogyny around here but always fail to see actual hate. I do see plenty of stereotyping, but that goes both ways. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
