EstherJ
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 05, 2012
Posts: 1036
Location: The long-lost library at Alexandria
|
 Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 3:25 am Post subject: "Crashing" the ADOS. . . |
 |
|
So I took it today.
I thought I had Asperger's, but goodness, I didn't think I was THAT bad...
She gave me the puzzle to do, and I knew they wanted me to ask for the pieces because I read that somewhere...but I ended up asking instead if I had to cover all of the spaces with pieces.
Making up a story from a picture book? No way. The best I could do was describe the VERY detailed pictures. I liked them - pretty architecture and detail in the pictures. I didn't get a story from it at all, and it took me FORVER to describe it.
She asked me to demonstrate how to brush teeth and wash my face....I just told her. Something wouldn't let me pick up the towel; why pick it up when you can just say it?
During the conversation, well, I got to talk. And talk. And talk. I was surprised she let me talk so much. I was also surprised that I picked up so much detail from the room I was in.
The emotions....well....for the life of me, I couldn't describe them. I told her - "honestly, all I see is a blank when you ask me how happiness feels." She wrote that down. Blank - white - nothing.
The random object > story was the weirdest thing for me. I surprised myself. The first thing I did was grab one of the objects that looked interesting to hold it - not to play with it. Then, I....lined the objects up. I mean, I know I like to do that, but..my first instinct? Lining them up? I didn't realize that was such a strong impulse. And that's all I could do without help - just lining the objects up nice in a row.
But it gets worse, guys. I didn't attribute any kind of personhood to the objects until she did it first. Then, I said "Mr. Feather" got ran over by the toy car and the red ribbon was his "blood".
Yep, that's my story.
I crashed it. I mean, you can't do "bad," but still? All the traits that I know I have that haven't surfaced recently came out...ALL of them. My hand flapping, my getting distracted by my keychain and fiddling with it...rocking....lecturing....everything.
Anyone else have any kind of similar experience? Like, your "symptoms" show more during something like that? |
|
| Back to top |
|
Ariel77
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Oct 16, 2011
Posts: 26
Location: Netherlands
|
| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 3:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hey,
yeah that sounds kind of familiar! Of course it's a stressful situation plus one doesn't need to hide anything since those professionals know about autism. I started rocking when I was losing focus, something I rarely did in stressful situations. The testings are both public and intimate.
Especially being diagnosed in adulthood can be a big huge relief because one can start choosing when to act/control oneself and when not.
That does rise the quality of life for me a lot.
I also noticed kind of more autistic behaviors since I know about ASD but it's mainly because I let myself go more often and know myself better. Things that seemed strange or even "bad" can know be tolerated and appreciated as a way to deal with stress and anxiety or to prevent an overload.
Cheers,
Ariel
_________________
Aspie in Europe, m 35 y |
|
| Back to top |
|
OJani
a brat
Joined: Feb 24, 2011
Age: 40
Posts: 2320
Location: Budapest, Hungary, Europe
|
| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 4:30 am Post subject: Re: "Crashing" the ADOS. . . |
|
|
| EstherJ wrote: |
I crashed it. I mean, you can't do "bad," but still? All the traits that I know I have that haven't surfaced recently came out...ALL of them. My hand flapping, my getting distracted by my keychain and fiddling with it...rocking....lecturing....everything.
Anyone else have any kind of similar experience? Like, your "symptoms" show more during something like that? |
Hmm. What you did at ADOS seems quite severe to me, sorry. Do you feel it reflects the difficulties you're facing in life?
In certain situations, especially when I'm among other autistics or similarly weird people I can behave more autistic. Also, there are periods when I'm more prone to it.
However, I could contain myself during the ADOS, but was naturally nervous a little bit due to anxiety resulting from my bad workplace situation back then. I have a fair amount of experience with handling anxiety in similar situations like oral exams and job interviews, so I always have and idea what to expect and how to get a handle on it.
I was able to complete the 'story telling with five objects', I guess because I was lucky to draw a matchbox car and a sponge, so after a few minutes of thinking and panicking I could tell a story of going to a car-wash and pay with a (paper) coin and put points on a (play) card, whereas a little wooden block was the car-wash itself... |
|
| Back to top |
|
cyberscan
Naughty Autie
Joined: Apr 17, 2008
Posts: 1357
Location: Near Panama, City Florida
|
| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 5:07 am Post subject: Hacking The ADOS |
|
|
I took the test for my C.A.R.D. counselor so she could get practice administering it.
I remember the test very well, and it took a lot of research for me to decode it. When I took it, I was trying to score neurotypical, but I was scored many points on the autism scale. However, I think I have finally hacked it. If I take it again, I'm pretty sure that I could score either NT or very high on the spectrum.
During the test, she will talk to you and observe you for repetitive motions, etc. I tried keeping my hands behind my back or clasped together out of her sight, but she managed to score me for repetitive motion anyways. She will also score you for your tone of voice and whether you use monotone or facial expressions, etc. In order for me to score NT for this part, I would have to devote days of practice.
The puzzle pieces that form an arrow or tree is not graded on how you fill it in or how long it takes. If you notice, she gave you only a few pieces at a time and asked you to let her know if you needed more. You were graded on if you asked for the pieces in a "normal" way. If you simply said, "Can I have the rest of them?" you might have scored in the NT area on this portion.
The picture story I was show comes from a picture book called "Free Fall." An autistic person will tend to describe the scenery and the characters while a NT person would describe the interaction between the characters. An autistic person seeking to hack the test into NT results would do best to read and study a narrative of the "Free Fall" picture book and make sure to talk about the characters (looking at their faces may give a cue as to their emotions).
For the emotions sections it is best to read about how emotions make a body feel such as a knot in the stomach for worry, etc. Being able to describe how emotions "feel," etc. will allow the Aspie to hack this section into a NT score.
When describing the picture of people on the map is is good to not only describe what they are doing or the events but also how they are feeling if you want to appear NT. For example, "That guy looks like he's chilling out on the beach." "The cool guy is catching a wave." etc.
One part of the test, she will give you a "break." She will also give you things to do for the break. One of the things she will hand you is a transistor radio with dead batteries. During the "break," she will appear busy. What she is waiting for is to see if you will ask her for batteries or attempt to engage her in conversation. If you do, she will pleasantly talk for a few seconds and then kind of excuse herself to see if you will break off the conversation appropriately. If you keep talking after she says something like, "I've got to get back to this." or if you do not interrupt her during the "break," she will score you more autistic for this section.
I could go on for another ten paragraphs discussing how to score NT on this test, but I see no need for it unless this type of test is used for job evaluations, etc. However, if this becomes a very popular thread, I will discuss further techniques for crashing the test and hacking out an NT score.
_________________
I am AUTISTIC - Always Unique, Totally Interesting, Straight Talking, Intelligently Conversational.
I am also the author of "Tech Tactics Money Saving Secrets" and "Tech Tactics Publishing and Production Secrets."
Last edited by cyberscan on Wed May 23, 2012 3:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
Atomsk
Bass Fiend
Joined: Apr 10, 2008
Age: 24
Posts: 1539
|
| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 7:23 am Post subject: Re: Hacking The ADOS |
|
|
| cyberscan wrote: | | I could go on for another ten paragraphs discussing how to score NT on this test, but I see no need for it unless this type of test is used for job evaluations, etc. However, if this becomes a very popular thread, I will discuss further techniques for crashing the test and hacking out an NT score. |
I'm interested. I found that a very fascinating read. I was diagnosed in early childhood so I don't remember quite everything that went on when I was being tested.
I remember once there was a room with a two-way mirror (I find it interesting that they are also known as one-way mirrors), where I played while they watched. |
|
| Back to top |
|
EstherJ
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 05, 2012
Posts: 1036
Location: The long-lost library at Alexandria
|
| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 10:06 am Post subject: Re: Hacking The ADOS |
|
|
| cyberscan wrote: | | I could go on for another ten paragraphs discussing how to score NT on this test, but I see no need for it unless this type of test is used for job evaluations, etc. However, if this becomes a very popular thread, I will discuss further techniques for crashing the test and hacking out an NT score. |
Interesting. What module did you get? I got module 4 and there was no break. However, from your description on how to "hack" it, I pretty much didn't. I would love to hear more detail, but if you don't want to share, then that's fine with me.
| OJani wrote: | | Hmm. What you did at ADOS seems quite severe to me, sorry. Do you feel it reflects the difficulties you're facing in life? |
Actually, now that I think about it more, I feel that it does reflect what I go through. I have learned that I have misconceptions about what's normal because my mother taught me from a young age that my behavior was normal. I have been trying to hide it so much from other people because I realize that it isn't, but I don't think I'm succeeding. I just tried here to not suppress it - if I felt like doing it, I did it, or said it. I guess I surprised myself.
The flapping and stuff wasn't too bad - there wasn't a lot of it, but it was there...I'm definitely capable of more than what happened.
| OJani wrote: | | I was able to complete the 'story telling with five objects', I guess because I was lucky to draw a matchbox car and a sponge, so after a few minutes of thinking and panicking I could tell a story of going to a car-wash and pay with a (paper) coin and put points on a (play) card, whereas a little wooden block was the car-wash itself... |
I realized that our play styles are different from an NT's in that we are so much more literal. Your story sounds rather literal - you didn't imagine anything that involved attributing emotional or social aspects to those objects. The only emotional or social aspect I attributed to anything was what my tester did first - calling the feather "Mr. Feather." I think feathers will always have a gender in my mind from now on...
| Ariel77 wrote: | | I also noticed kind of more autistic behaviors since I know about ASD but it's mainly because I let myself go more often and know myself better. Things that seemed strange or even "bad" can know be tolerated and appreciated as a way to deal with stress and anxiety or to prevent an overload. |
I know, right? Since I learned that I'm not weird or crazy, I have let my inhibitions down. I didn't realize how miserable I was making myself by trying to be normal, and it wasn't working. |
|
| Back to top |
|
cyberscan
Naughty Autie
Joined: Apr 17, 2008
Posts: 1357
Location: Near Panama, City Florida
|
| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Hacking The ADOS |
|
|
| EstherJ wrote: | | cyberscan wrote: | | I could go on for another ten paragraphs discussing how to score NT on this test, but I see no need for it unless this type of test is used for job evaluations, etc. However, if this becomes a very popular thread, I will discuss further techniques for crashing the test and hacking out an NT score. |
Interesting. What module did you get? I got module 4 and there was no break. However, from your description on how to "hack" it, I pretty much didn't. I would love to hear more detail, but if you don't want to share, then that's fine with me.
|
Yes, I got module 4. The entire session was video taped as well. I wonder if the test can be administered differently, or if the person administering the test is allowed to skip parts. What other detail do you want to hear? I am planning an entire article on how to hack this test, however, I'm stuck on how to publish it so that it does not incorrectly skew the results for those who are actually looking for an accurate diagnosis.
I want the test to be able to be used to help people understand why they are the way they are, but I don't want the test to be used to deny someone a job, the ability to serve in the military, or otherwise brand a person so that he or she is denied an opportunity. If you have questions, you can ask in a private message.
_________________
I am AUTISTIC - Always Unique, Totally Interesting, Straight Talking, Intelligently Conversational.
I am also the author of "Tech Tactics Money Saving Secrets" and "Tech Tactics Publishing and Production Secrets." |
|
| Back to top |
|
Dots
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 23, 2010
Age: 29
Posts: 938
Location: Ontario
|
| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 5:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I remember doing two block tests while I was participating in a study. One of them was the one with the half red half white blocks and I had to arrange them many different times, to form a picture I was shown. I didn't have to ask for the blocks. I think I was being timed on how fast I completed the pattern.
The other one had an outline of a shape and I had to arrange blue and green blocks to fit the outline, any way I wanted to. I tried to make a pretty pattern, and I think I was instructed to ask for more blocks when I needed them. I can't remember what I said, probably "I need more blocks." And then, I needed one more blue one to complete the pattern the way I wanted it, and I asked for a block and he gave me a block and it was green and I said "I need a blue one." And he said there were no more blue ones. I felt upset, but I don't like showing other people when I'm upset, so I just took a deep breath and rearranged the blocks into a different colour pattern.
I had to make up a story from a picture book too, and I could tell it was about a boy and the dream he was having, but I don't think I described emotional states or feelings at all. I just talked about "There's a wall with bricks and there are two knights standing guard. Now there's a forest and the forest is turning into a pile of books." (It was a weird picture book.)
I also had to put some cards in order that showed a story of a man fishing, and he catches a fish, and then a cat steals the fish. I'm pretty sure I ordered them right, and then he asked me if I thought it was funny and I said "Yes." but I'm pretty sure I said it without emotion.
And I was asked to describe how emotions feel, which was hard.
I have the Asperger's diagnosis, but I'm newly diagnosed. These tests were for a study at a university, I was participating as a person diagnosed on the spectrum, and I was worried that they'd be like "No your diagnosis is wrong" but instead they asked me back to participate in further autism studies.
Now that I've read all of this thread I'm nervous, because I'm sure some of my reactions would match what has been described as NT reactions.
_________________
Transgender. Call me 'he' please. I'm a guy.
Diagnosed Bipolar and Aspergers.
Free speech means the right to shout 'theatre' in a crowded fire.
--Abbie Hoffman |
|
| Back to top |
|
hanyo
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 01, 2011
Posts: 3422
|
| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 5:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Dots wrote: | | I remember doing two block tests while I was participating in a study. One of them was the one with the half red half white blocks and I had to arrange them many different times, to form a picture I was shown. I didn't have to ask for the blocks. I think I was being timed on how fast I completed the pattern. |
I remember having to do that when I was younger. I think I kind of remember pictures I had to put in order to make a story too.
One thing I remember that may or may not have been part of the same test was looking at pictures and telling them what was missing. I remember there being at least a couple where I couldn't find anything missing. To this day I sometimes wonder what I missed because they never told me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Dots
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 23, 2010
Age: 29
Posts: 938
Location: Ontario
|
| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 5:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| hanyo wrote: |
One thing I remember that may or may not have been part of the same test was looking at pictures and telling them what was missing. I remember there being at least a couple where I couldn't find anything missing. To this day I sometimes wonder what I missed because they never told me. |
Yes, I remember that too. There were a lot of pictures, and they started out easy but got hard. I think I missed two or three - one near the end, and the very last one. I think that was part of an IQ test.
_________________
Transgender. Call me 'he' please. I'm a guy.
Diagnosed Bipolar and Aspergers.
Free speech means the right to shout 'theatre' in a crowded fire.
--Abbie Hoffman |
|
| Back to top |
|
EstherJ
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 05, 2012
Posts: 1036
Location: The long-lost library at Alexandria
|
| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 5:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Dots wrote: | I remember doing two block tests while I was participating in a study. One of them was the one with the half red half white blocks and I had to arrange them many different times, to form a picture I was shown. I didn't have to ask for the blocks. I think I was being timed on how fast I completed the pattern.
The other one had an outline of a shape and I had to arrange blue and green blocks to fit the outline, any way I wanted to. I tried to make a pretty pattern, and I think I was instructed to ask for more blocks when I needed them. I can't remember what I said, probably "I need more blocks." And then, I needed one more blue one to complete the pattern the way I wanted it, and I asked for a block and he gave me a block and it was green and I said "I need a blue one." And he said there were no more blue ones. I felt upset, but I don't like showing other people when I'm upset, so I just took a deep breath and rearranged the blocks into a different colour pattern.
I had to make up a story from a picture book too, and I could tell it was about a boy and the dream he was having, but I don't think I described emotional states or feelings at all. I just talked about "There's a wall with bricks and there are two knights standing guard. Now there's a forest and the forest is turning into a pile of books." (It was a weird picture book.)
I also had to put some cards in order that showed a story of a man fishing, and he catches a fish, and then a cat steals the fish. I'm pretty sure I ordered them right, and then he asked me if I thought it was funny and I said "Yes." but I'm pretty sure I said it without emotion.
And I was asked to describe how emotions feel, which was hard.
I have the Asperger's diagnosis, but I'm newly diagnosed. These tests were for a study at a university, I was participating as a person diagnosed on the spectrum, and I was worried that they'd be like "No your diagnosis is wrong" but instead they asked me back to participate in further autism studies.
Now that I've read all of this thread I'm nervous, because I'm sure some of my reactions would match what has been described as NT reactions. |
No, it seems like you responded fundamentally like we all did ... but then again, how do we know? I would assume if they asked you back and if you have the diagnosis, then you have it.
By the way, I had that same picture book...it was bizarre....and I did the same thing you did - just described it. The most of a "story" I got out of it was that the boy had a dream and then the dream ended. Everything else was description.
From everyone's response, I think it's safe to say that the activities can be administered differently, but still grade the same thing. This probably makes the test harder to think through,
I also think an article is a good idea, but you would have to have some way to keep people who are going to be tested from reading it. I don't know how you would do that...
I avoided reading anything beyond some of the activities I would be doing. I knew only that a lot of it was about social information. I want an accurate diagnosis so I didn't inform myself of too much. |
|
| Back to top |
|
cyberscan
Naughty Autie
Joined: Apr 17, 2008
Posts: 1357
Location: Near Panama, City Florida
|
| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 8:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| EstherJ wrote: |
No, it seems like you responded fundamentally like we all did ... but then again, how do we know? I would assume if they asked you back and if you have the diagnosis, then you have it.
By the way, I had that same picture book...it was bizarre....and I did the same thing you did - just described it. The most of a "story" I got out of it was that the boy had a dream and then the dream ended. Everything else was description.
From everyone's response, I think it's safe to say that the activities can be administered differently, but still grade the same thing. This probably makes the test harder to think through,
I also think an article is a good idea, but you would have to have some way to keep people who are going to be tested from reading it. I don't know how you would do that...
I avoided reading anything beyond some of the activities I would be doing. I knew only that a lot of it was about social information. I want an accurate diagnosis so I didn't inform myself of too much. |
This is the reason why I have not yet written an article. I want to protect the integrity of the test but only when it is used in a legitimate way and not used to deny people job opportunities, health insurance or any other right or privilege. I can see the test being used by the military, employers, or insurance companies in order to weed out applicants. In this case, I would want the applicant to be able to skew the test in his or her favor. However, when the test is used to help someone find out what is "wrong" or why they are different, I would rather the person being tested not read the article. I will probably not write an article until such a need becomes known.
_________________
I am AUTISTIC - Always Unique, Totally Interesting, Straight Talking, Intelligently Conversational.
I am also the author of "Tech Tactics Money Saving Secrets" and "Tech Tactics Publishing and Production Secrets."
Last edited by cyberscan on Wed May 23, 2012 3:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
EstherJ
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 05, 2012
Posts: 1036
Location: The long-lost library at Alexandria
|
| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 8:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| cyberscan wrote: | | EstherJ wrote: |
No, it seems like you responded fundamentally like we all did ... but then again, how do we know? I would assume if they asked you back and if you have the diagnosis, then you have it.
By the way, I had that same picture book...it was bizarre....and I did the same thing you did - just described it. The most of a "story" I got out of it was that the boy had a dream and then the dream ended. Everything else was description.
From everyone's response, I think it's safe to say that the activities can be administered differently, but still grade the same thing. This probably makes the test harder to think through,
I also think an article is a good idea, but you would have to have some way to keep people who are going to be tested from reading it. I don't know how you would do that...
I avoided reading anything beyond some of the activities I would be doing. I knew only that a lot of it was about social information. I want an accurate diagnosis so I didn't inform myself of too much. |
This is the reason why I have not yet wrote an article. I want to protect the integrity of the test but only when it is used in a legitimate way and not used to deny people job opportunities, health insurance or any other right or privilege. I can see the test being used by the military, employers, or insurance companies in order to weed out applicants. In this case, I would want the applicant to be able to skew the test in his or her favor. However, when the test is used to help someone find out what is "wrong" or why they are different, I would rather the person being tested not read the article. I will probably not write an article until such a need becomes known. |
Amazing use of foresight. Though, I would consider writing it and keeping it written out first, just so you don't just have it in your head. Just don't publish it until it's needed. That way, you don't forget anything.
Right now, such tests are only the property of psychologists and psychiatrists, and I hope it will be a long time before someone else gets their hands on it to use it that way. But, I don't trust people, or that the world is a good place, like I used to.
Although, after taking it, I don't know how easy it would be to skew it... I don't know how to act that convincingly different. |
|
| Back to top |
|
cyberscan
Naughty Autie
Joined: Apr 17, 2008
Posts: 1357
Location: Near Panama, City Florida
|
| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 10:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I might go ahead and finish the article. While an Autie or Aspie might still score on the autism spectrum when trying to skew the test, he or she might be able to fool an untrained examiner such as a staffer in a personnel department. This is my primary concern - keeping the test from being used for discrimination. I know that it would take a tremendous amount of practice for me to fool an examiner who deals with autistic people on a daily basis. When I say practice, I'm talking about at least a month of daily one hour practice sessions. However, I almost positive that I can shave many points off of my autism score by simply knowing how the test works.
I have been able to successfully skew other psychological tests that were used to screen out applicants who personality were deemed unfit for a specific job. I worked for the company which used this test for five years, and the company was satisfied with my work. However, I most likely would not have been hired if I did not understand how the test was scored. Unfortunately, autism renders so many of us as outcasts, and yet we need to work and have money to support ourselves. Many companies disregard much talent due to their selectivity using such narrow means. Being able to fly under the radar is a matter of survival for many of us, and knowing how to manipulate the system in order to do so is a necessary skill.
_________________
I am AUTISTIC - Always Unique, Totally Interesting, Straight Talking, Intelligently Conversational.
I am also the author of "Tech Tactics Money Saving Secrets" and "Tech Tactics Publishing and Production Secrets." |
|
| Back to top |
|
EstherJ
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 05, 2012
Posts: 1036
Location: The long-lost library at Alexandria
|
| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 2:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
Ok guys...now I'm a little freaked out.
I made it a priority not to learn too much about the test in order to ensure that my results would be accurate.
All I knew was that I would take module 4, and I knew the names of the activities. Just a loose structure of how the test would be run. I knew it tested my social imagination.
I'm paranoid now that they might think I faked it to look worse than I am. I don't know why I'm worried, but I am. I made sure that I wouldn't even be able to fake it. I WANT accurate results. But I'm scared they will read into it and say I was faking it.
The thing is, I tried my best just to be me. The difficulties I felt were real. I hope they see that. Oh gosh.
Is this just another outgrowth of my issues? Did anyone else wonder about this? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
