Joined: Feb 26, 2006 Posts: 26031 Location: Lancashire, UK
Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 1:17 pm Post subject: Nigel Farage: break up the euro and restore human dignity
Thought this might be of interest:
Quote:
Nigel Farage - UKIP, EFD, UK: President, we're in the midst of an economic and increasingly humanitarian crisis and yet Commission president Barroso is not here. Indeed, Herman van Rompuy is not here either. Not that it really matters, because they're not prepared to listen to any debate or any argument. They're intent on pursuing their political dream of a United States of Europe. They're prepared to commit economic suicide for an entire continent. And tomorrow night Mr van Rompuy has called yet another summit at which he's going to present a strategy for growth and jobs.
Elected MEPs, representatives of the people of Europe from left and right - we've heard it all before - remember the euro itself was supposed to create growth and jobs and yet it is actively destroying both of those things. The remedy we're being offered is more of the same. I would suggest that the medicine is killing the patient, and to increase the dosage is madness. And don't listen to those who will tell you that the only alternative is for Greece to stay in the euro. Everyone's pushing this. David Cameron, all the other leaders are saying, we must keep Greece in the euro, if she leaves the sky will fall in. It won't! There'll be a few difficult weeks and then things will settle down. There'll be a boom in tourism, investment will start to come back into Greece, innovation will start to come back into Greece as people start making products to beat expensive imports. Indeed Greece outside of the eurozone may well provide to be an inspiration for Spain, for Portugal and many other countries.
We need to recognise that a terrible mistake has been made. We must resolve to put it right. We've got to give people hope because out there now is absolute despair.
We all remember Dimitris Christoulas, the 77-year-old former pharmacist who shot himself dead outside the Greek parliament. But he is just one of a growing humanitarian disaster. Huge increases in suicides in Italy, in Greece, particularly from people running small businesses who cannot see a way out of the problem. Children being left in increasing numbers outside the doors of churches because they can't afford to feed them.
Our leaders are too callous to listen and care. YOU can do something about this. YOU can rise up and say - and I know in my conversations with you that many of you agree with me, that I'm right - we've got to break up the euro; we've got to restore democracy; we've got to restore human dignity; we must ignore Messrs Barroso and Van Rompuy, they have been proved to be wrong. WE must provide people with hope.
Parliament chair: Question has been put to you. By Mr Papanikolaou. Are you prepared to take a question? Mr Papanikolaou, please.
Giorgos Papanikolaou - ND, EPP, Greece: Thank you very much, President. Well, I listened very carefully to what Mr Farage said and he once again reiterated his position that Greece should leave the Eurozone and go back to the drachma as their national currency and then everything goes better, tourism takes off and so on. Well, Mr Farage if that were to happen, if Greece were to re-adopt the drachma would it be undervalued or not? You know, what about the price of fuel for example? Will go up three or four times, won't it? Please tell the truth.
Nigel Farage - UKIP, EFD, UK: Drachma would probably be 50 to 60% lower than its current value in the euro. Something like that. Now, clearly, I'm not advocating that we move to a new fixed peg. I'm advocating floating currency rates, because history shows us that every time we try to fix currency pegs, we get it wrong. The risk, of course, is that the cost of imports would rise. Which is why I said that what it would also lead to is innovation in Greece as people started to make products to undercut the price of foreign imports. But I tell you what it would give. It would give Greece a chance because stuck inside the euro, you are going to be literally destroyed.
Joined: Feb 01, 2012 Posts: 1364 Location: Planet Earth
Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 2:22 pm Post subject:
Farage is right. I remember how they forced that currency onto us without popular support, a common theme for any type of European policy. They said it would benefit the economy. We'd have better economic growth - the exact opposite turned out to be true. We'd have better income - certainly not in purchasing power. Doing business or visiting other countries would be easier - barely, it costs us more, and with electronic payments, it doesn't matter what your coin or paper looks like as long as your bank won't collapse within a month. Few people actively supported the introduction of that currency even in northern Europe, but the people who did were those who got to decide. Today, the two most popular parties in the polls are both eurosceptic, with one of them wanting to leave the European Union altogether.
The European Union truly is an amazing feat of cooperation. In the face of protests, in the face of widespread hate, they continue pushing us around, punishing us for their incompetence. It's not at all an exaggeration that I'd be more competent than the entire European Commission combined. They have the competence and results of a weak, small government like Zimbabwe's, yet they have funds like they're the United States. They're completely incapable of seeing the results of what they're doing - a little child playing with a loaded firearm. I wouldn't say they're trying to commit suicide for the entire continent, but they're certainly a medium-sized mammal staring into the headlights of a train, unaware.
Joined: Feb 26, 2006 Posts: 26031 Location: Lancashire, UK
Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 2:49 pm Post subject:
HisDivineMajesty wrote:
Farage is right. I remember how they forced that currency onto us without popular support, a common theme for any type of European policy.
Luckily, we managed - along with Denmark and Sweden - to stay out of the eurozone. That's probably one of the only good things Gordon Brown ever did.
HisDivineMajesty wrote:
Doing business or visiting other countries would be easier - barely, it costs us more, and with electronic payments, it doesn't matter what your coin or paper looks like as long as your bank won't collapse within a month.
Visiting other countries does not need the EU or anything like it. Arrangements could be made with other countries easily enough or even as a small, non-binding bloc with lots of autonomy if required.
HisDivineMajesty wrote:
Few people actively supported the introduction of that currency even in northern Europe, but the people who did were those who got to decide.
I've heard that the Dutch and Danish especially weren't keen on it. The Danes very much want to keep their krone, and still do.
HisDivineMajesty wrote:
Today, the two most popular parties in the polls are both eurosceptic, with one of them wanting to leave the European Union altogether.
Unfortunately, this really isn't the case in Britain. The largest properly eurosceptic party is UKIP, who, it is true, have never won a seat in the House of Commons but this is only because of our electoral system - if we had PR as an electoral system, their voice in the Commons would be considerable. The Conservatives aren't eurosceptic either in or out of office, or if it is it's a very superficial, false, soft euroscepticism which has been shown time and again to be complete bunkum.
Across Europe though, there are freedom and independence parties. In Finland, the withdrawalist The Finns Party are the third largest party. In Denmark, the also-withdrawalist Dansk Folkeparti has a considerable presence in parliament. In Hungary, the really rather unpleasant Jobbik is the third-largest party there.
This is what they have done. The EU has created a wave of disenfranchised, disaffected people whose voice is essentially powerless as their politicians nakedly refuse to listen and act on their views. So people vote for any party that promises to return democracy to their countries.
HisDivineMajesty wrote:
The European Union truly is an amazing feat of cooperation. In the face of protests, in the face of widespread hate, they continue pushing us around, punishing us for their incompetence. It's not at all an exaggeration that I'd be more competent than the entire European Commission combined. They have the competence and results of a weak, small government like Zimbabwe's, yet they have funds like they're the United States. They're completely incapable of seeing the results of what they're doing - a little child playing with a loaded firearm. I wouldn't say they're trying to commit suicide for the entire continent, but they're certainly a medium-sized mammal staring into the headlights of a train, unaware.
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 Age: 34 Posts: 477 Location: The Georgian Quarter of The Pool of Life, The Centre of The Creative Universe
Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 3:28 pm Post subject:
I have to agree with him on this, his economic assessment of Greece is spot on.
The country will have short term issues after leaving the Euro, tho in the long term it will do Greece alot of good.
Clearly the EU need to understand that the Euro is a waste of time, It's worse that the ERM! _________________ Censorship reflects a society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime. --Potter Stewart
Corruption is authority plus monopoly minus transparency. --Unknown
Joined: Oct 17, 2009 Age: 45 Posts: 5754 Location: Vancouver, BC
Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 3:53 pm Post subject:
One does not need to be a Eurosceptic to have seen this coming a long way off.
The rules were not merely bent, but ignored to permit Greece's accession to the Euro. There was clearly some short-term political gain to be made, but for the life of me I can't see what it was.
In the meantime, any undergraduate with a basic exposure to macroeconomics can tell you that a government has three levers to apply to the economy: fiscal policy (how much the government taxes and spends), monetary policy (how big the money supply is) and interest rates (how easy it is to borrow). With the Euro, European governments have forgone two of those levers leaving them discretion only in the area of fiscal policy.
And it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you have only one monetary policy and only one interest rate mechanism, then your fiscal policy discretion is going to be effectively limited. If you continue to tax and spend as if you had control of your monetary policy, then disaster is inevitable. As we have seen.
I'm not going to wade into the question of whether or not the EU is a valuable institution for Europe. But the only way for the Euro to survive seems to be to cut off those countries that are not willing to align their fiscal policy with the larger Eurozone economies. _________________ --James
Joined: Feb 26, 2006 Posts: 26031 Location: Lancashire, UK
Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:26 pm Post subject:
visagrunt wrote:
But the only way for the Euro to survive seems to be to cut off those countries that are not willing to align their fiscal policy with the larger Eurozone economies.
That's going to be quite a few countries then, isn't it?
Giving up the right to print currency and control the interest rate could only have worked if fiscal policy was also controlled by Brussels. Without it, you got a lot of countries with different needs and cultures acting in their own way, but having an effect on the whole. If we flip Visagrunt's argument, the EU is like trying to run a country where you are not allowed to control fiscal policy.
Personally, I'm against a common currency due to the fact that it does in quite a significant way impact sovereignty and a governments ability to safeguard the well-being of its citizens.
Joined: Feb 26, 2006 Posts: 26031 Location: Lancashire, UK
Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 5:48 pm Post subject:
TM wrote:
Personally, I'm against a common currency due to the fact that it does in quite a significant way impact sovereignty and a governments ability to safeguard the well-being of its citizens.
Which is why you're quite pleased that you're not in the EU or the eurozone, correct?
Personally, I'm against a common currency due to the fact that it does in quite a significant way impact sovereignty and a governments ability to safeguard the well-being of its citizens.
Which is why you're quite pleased that you're not in the EU or the eurozone, correct?
That, plus the fact that the EU as a concept is idiotic for everyone who isn't a politician who benefits from the EU. Even for "national" politicians the EU isn't ideal since laws conceived in Brussels have to be put into law in the countries as well, so it removes both the ability of politicians to accurately represent the interest of their voters, and the right to sovereignty for citizens of a country. The EU as a form of pure trade/labor agreement makes sense to a degree, the EU itself is a social-democratic project, and like most social-democratic projects ends up being well intentioned but about as practical as a thong bikini on mount everest.
I voted against it in the referendums and I will keep doing so until the EU stops being what is essentially a government that isn't democratically elected, or as the dictionary defines it, totalitarian.
