WilliamWDelaney
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 27, 2011
Posts: 1201
|
 Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:15 am Post subject: Double-standards on racist imagery |
 |
|
It may be hard to believe, but we are actually a lot more racist against Indians than we have ever been against black people. And consider this: what white man did to the American Indians makes the Holocaust look like a beer hangover.
However, when Native Americans complain about this sort of thing, it seems like their words fall on deaf ears. Consider the image below. Can you honestly say that it's more offensive and racist than the one above?
Also, for a more direct comparison, let's take "Red Man" chewing tobacco:
On one hand, I'm not one of those people who think that we ought to outlaw anything that offends anybody. However, here is what gets to me: a lot of people who would pitch a royal fit over "Nigger Hair" brand smoking tobacco would laugh at you if you were to point out how thoroughly racist "Red Man" chewing tobacco is. It's not the racist content I find offensive so much as the hypocrisy that I so often see in our culture. If you want to talk about historical crimes, we enslaved the black people, but we gleefully murdered the Indians. And we still paint the murderers in a heroic light...for that very crime!
Just saying. |
|
| Back to top |
|
puddingmouse
cheesecake demolisher
Joined: Apr 25, 2010
Age: 26
Posts: 7028
Location: Mega City 3
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
We don't get the 'injun' imagery stuff over here. I think if Native Americans are offended by it, we should take their complaints as seriously as those of black people.
_________________
The mess has ended. Go home in pieces. |
|
| Back to top |
|
ArrantPariah
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 31, 2012
Posts: 4818
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| A lot of us live on land that was knicked from the Indians, without giving it any thought. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Declension
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 21, 2012
Posts: 1652
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
This bothers me too. It is this sort of phenomenon that fuels my thesis that justice is only ever really obtained through violent resistance and force of numbers.
Why are Americans so sensitive about offending black people? It's because there are a lot of black people, and they have a loud voice. Why do Americans not care so much about offending Native Americans? It's because there are so few Native Americans left.
There is an interesting "natural experiment" down where I live. New Zealand and Australia were colonised by the same sort of people around the same sort of time. It has often been noted that modern New Zealand accepts and respects its indigenous people to a much greater extent than modern Australia accepts and respects its indigenous people. The reason? It's a numbers game. It's because 15% of New Zealanders are Maori, but only 2% of Australians are Aborigines. And why is that? It's because the Maori fought back more effectively. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Venger
Seal
Joined: Apr 16, 2008
Posts: 2502
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:31 am Post subject: Re: Double-standards on racist imagery |
|
|
| WilliamWDelaney wrote: |
|
That packaging is hilarious. 
Exactly how old is this stuff? |
|
| Back to top |
|
ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29296
Location: New Jersey
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
What about Prince Albert pipe tobacco. There is a picture of a white man on the can.
ruveyn |
|
| Back to top |
|
WilliamWDelaney
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 27, 2011
Posts: 1201
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ruveyn wrote: | | What about Prince Albert pipe tobacco. There is a picture of a white man on the can. |
Well, the discussion is on double-standards. Therefore, you would really have to point out where a white lobby claimed that it promoted negative stereotypes about white people and weren't taken seriously. Neo-nazi groups who are, as an ulterior motive, "trying to make a point," don't really count.
And the thing is, I actually kind of respect black people who only see racist imagery as crass but don't really get a persecution complex because of it. They are in the right to find it offensive, but I think it's honorable for someone to practice a degree of tolerance also. It makes everyone's lives a little easier if we stick to a sort of gentle pressure to marginalize this kind of imagery. |
|
| Back to top |
|
ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29296
Location: New Jersey
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| WilliamWDelaney wrote: | | ruveyn wrote: | | What about Prince Albert pipe tobacco. There is a picture of a white man on the can. |
Well, the discussion is on double-standards. Therefore, you would really have to point out where a white lobby claimed that it promoted negative stereotypes about white people and weren't taken seriously. Neo-nazi groups who are, as an ulterior motive, "trying to make a point," don't really count.
|
There is a single standard. One puts on the can or box or bag and image that will sell the product. So what is your problem?
ruveyn |
|
| Back to top |
|
ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29296
Location: New Jersey
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:23 am Post subject: Re: Double-standards on racist imagery |
|
|
| WilliamWDelaney wrote: |
It may be hard to believe, but we are actually a lot more racist against Indians than we have ever been against black people. And consider this: what white man did to the American Indians makes the Holocaust look like a beer hangover.
|
The outrages against aboriginal tribes was standard non-industrial pre-WMD massacre. No gas chambers. No places to burn bodies. No barbed wire enclosed camps. And the number killed was nowhere near what the Germans did either in absolute numbers or even percentages. The real wrong was killing off the aboriginal culture. More people were killed in absolute numbers (and percentages) during the hundred years war in Europe, which really lasted 116 years. And Pochahontas and Tonto were never sterilized either. Compared to the massacres at Bergen, Belsen and Auschwitz, Wounded Knee was a minor skirmish.
ruveyn |
|
| Back to top |
|
Oldout
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 10, 2012
Posts: 1539
Location: Reading, PA
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| What about those beer ads with the Swedish ski team (beautiful, voluptuous blonds). Advertising people will use any if it will sell the product and guess what we all join in to buy on that propaganda. |
|
| Back to top |
|
naturalplastic
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 27, 2010
Posts: 4588
Location: mid atlantic coast usa
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
"Nigger Hair Tobacco"?
Gimmie a break!
No way is that the same as the Indian maiden on "Land O Lakes".
The latter is a tiny bit quaint and im sure its bit anthropologically inaccurate. Im sure her attire owes more to Hollywood than to the traditions of any real Minnesota Indian tribe. But so what?
Shes projecting an image of pristine natural goodness.
The african american gentleman on the tobacco can has rings in his nose- hes purposely drawn to look savage.
Even if you took away the ear and nose rings you still have the name of the product. Its a racial epithet combined with a stereotype of that races physical traits.
Its like naming a bag of large triangular shaped snacks "Kike noses".
There is no way that that is the same as the land O lakes maiden.
Redman Chew is bit more racial because it refers to actual skin color in the product name so its kind of intermediate in offensiveness between the two. That I will admit. |
|
| Back to top |
|
ArrantPariah
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 31, 2012
Posts: 4818
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Land-O-Lakes is also using sex appeal, which always sells. Although, at times, it might backfire.
The old cigar store Indians started disappearing when I was a kid. |
|
| Back to top |
|
WilliamWDelaney
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 27, 2011
Posts: 1201
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ruveyn wrote: | | WilliamWDelaney wrote: | | ruveyn wrote: | | What about Prince Albert pipe tobacco. There is a picture of a white man on the can. |
Well, the discussion is on double-standards. Therefore, you would really have to point out where a white lobby claimed that it promoted negative stereotypes about white people and weren't taken seriously. Neo-nazi groups who are, as an ulterior motive, "trying to make a point," don't really count.
|
There is a single standard. One puts on the can or box or bag and image that will sell the product. So what is your problem?
ruveyn |
Do you have to make every discussion about your libertarian nonsense? It is in no way related. I even said in the OP that I am not really cool with the idea of outlawing everything that someone finds offensive. It's RIGHT THERE IN THE OP, dude. |
|
| Back to top |
|
snapcap
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 13, 2011
Age: 31
Posts: 2328
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Not all negative racial depictions were meant to be negative. Hip-Hop artist Nas wanted to call his 2008 album 'Nigger' but it wound up being either untitled or self titled, depending on where you look. His aim was to make the word less offensive than cracker. Here's a bit more about it.
Nas Explains Controversial Album Title
_________________
*some atheist walks outside and picks up stick*
some atheist to stick: "You're like me!" |
|
| Back to top |
|
Zinia
Deinonychus
Joined: Sep 23, 2011
Age: 30
Posts: 344
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm not going to assume that racism against Native Americans is worse than that against any other ethnicity.
BUT one of the most apparent manifestations of racism against American indigenous is the Mexican hate.
We get so much Mexican hate here--in political choices, job stats, and in the social interactions I've experienced.
And the thing is, we seem to be oblivious to how the anti-Mexican/Latino sentiment is actually anti-Native American.
We drew a line through North America--between the US and Mexico--so somehow now Mexicans, who have a high amount of Native American blood are no longer considered Native American in the US.
I've seen blue eyed, blond haired people claim they are 1/16th Cherokee, and in the next breath complain about those "brown skinned Beaners." DUH--the reason why Mexican/Latino even seems like a separate race/ethnicity is because of the high amount of Indigenous blood in the Mexican population....but somehow--they're just "dirty Mexicans."
And almost no one publicly makes the connection between anti-Latino racism and Native American racism. |
|
| Back to top |
|
