Joined: Apr 14, 2011 Age: 21 Posts: 1104 Location: United States
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:21 pm Post subject: Fake / Scam Martial Arts Academies and Dojos
I observed many martial arts dojos around the state and their classes, and I've noticed that many (not all) martial arts schools out there are gimmicky. They take a legitimate martial art (for example Tae Kwon Do) but they water it down to accomodate it for anyone.
Some signs that a dojo is fake:
* The "master"/instructor is under the age of 50.
* There is very little physical contact , no fighting/grappling (or most of it is gently guided)
* The class is mostly warmups and fillers (like 30 minutes of calisthenics before real moves taught)
* You can earn a blackbelt in them in 2 years or less, whereas it should take at least 3 to 5.
* A lot of little kids go there and 13 year olds are getting blackbelts.
So these places give out blackbelts so liberally without the people knowing how to truly defend themselves in a fight. These places aren't bad for casual fun, but they do not teach practical fighting skills. It's good if you want a decent workout and a night of fun every week without much pain. It's really unfair to pay over a thousand dollars a year for a class that is nothing more than a small amount of tricks from a discipline padded with kickboxing and cardio.
I talked to my father about this (a 5th degree blackbelt), and he agreed with me, adding that over 90% of the dojos out there are watered-down or fake.
It's understandable why they would. Many people want something more gentle (less dangerous), something that is quicker to progress in ranks, something not to strenuous or difficult, and nothing too commiting. And the dojo's not only want, but NEED money to stay afloat.
Last edited by minervx on Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:57 am; edited 1 time in total
Fascinating. Your review of these martial arts classes sounds a lot like my reviews of Mexican, West Indian, East Indian and Chinese restaurants. They're Americanized to the point of being bland and flavourless and lacking in bite - just the way their American clientele prefers. I can just scream when I taste how spiceless some restaurants can be. I guess it pays their rents. _________________ If you think he's eloquent now just wait till he's sober!
His blog: http://seattlewordsmith.wordpress.com/
Fascinating. Your review of these martial arts classes sounds a lot like my reviews of Mexican, West Indian, East Indian and Chinese restaurants. They're Americanized to the point of being bland and flavourless and lacking in bite - just the way their American clientele prefers. I can just scream when I taste how spiceless some restaurants can be. I guess it pays their rents.
When I was living in Washington there was a little diner that served some kind of mexican dish with "hot salsa". When it came, it turned out "hot salsa" meant "warmed-up bottled salsa". It was disgusting, but amusing.
Joined: Nov 12, 2011 Posts: 6783 Location: Living in Faulkner's nightmare
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:40 am Post subject:
Most of the martial arts places in my area are nothing more than after school activities for kids. Some do keep going while in high school and as adults, but for the most part, around here, it's like gymnastics, band, softball, etc. Just a fun distraction.
My kids took Tai Kwan Do at several different places over the years. I noticed that it's more focused on learning self discipline and coordination and that being good takes practice, etc. They seem to use the martial art as a medium to teach certain values, etc.
I'm sure there are "real" ones, for professional or semiprofessional skill level people, but for the most part it's like ice skating or horseback riding lessons. Never intended to be any important part of the students life. _________________ Frances
Joined: Apr 14, 2011 Age: 21 Posts: 1104 Location: United States
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:22 am Post subject:
redrobin62 - good comparison
olive oil mom - yeah, as an E.C. activity and for fun, definitely. as long it is understood that getting a blackbelt at a watered-down academy won't teach you self-defense.
Joined: Nov 12, 2011 Posts: 6783 Location: Living in Faulkner's nightmare
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:58 am Post subject:
minervx wrote:
redrobin62 - good comparison
olive oil mom - yeah, as an E.C. activity and for fun, definitely. as long it is understood that getting a blackbelt at a watered-down academy won't teach you self-defense.
I don't think those schools focus on self defense really. They basically tell you not to use it and not to fight. _________________ Frances
There are lots of legitimate reasons for training. Combatives/self defense. Sports. Growth. Different strokes, different folks.
Doesn't matter how long it takes to get to black belt. Black belt is just the beginning of the journey. It signifies that you've mastered the basic tools (through coloured belts/kyu) and are now ready to start expressing yourself through the medium of the style.
So even if someone finds a genuine dojo and spends half a decade getting to black, it might as well have been a MacDojo if they quit once they reach the first dan milestone.
If a person is only interested in the self defense angle, they might choose to dispense with the traditional styles and belts, and choose to join a reality based self defense club instead. It doesn't take years to learn to beat the bad guy. Many black belts get floored by street punks who have no training. Geoff Thompson advocated drilling only one or two strikes over and over again. That works well for most scrappers. _________________ assumption makes an 'ass' out of 'u' and 'mption'.
Google Krav or hang out on forums that explore the topic of effective styles in more depth, and you'll see that Krav has its own MacDojos. Seems that a lot of styles get Krav certification, then teach it the same way they teach their other stuff. MacDojos teaching MacKrav, and full-on dojos teaching full-on krav. _________________ assumption makes an 'ass' out of 'u' and 'mption'.
I gave up Martial Arts for this very reason. "McDojos" as you guys call them seem to be very common.
At the very first Karate place I tried, you got a "special gold badge" for sitting still for a minute. Apparently it showed mental focus. Hmmmm... _________________ Always accepting of PMs.
I'm kinda just wondering if everything in life is a scam. I've been learning this with personal trainers/fitness instructors. People sign up for "sport specific" training and they all get the same crap, usually throwing medicine balls, and a bunch of weird ab exercises.
I don't know, it was hard for me to fall for it, as the trainer asked what I wanted to do, expecting me to say tone up or burn fat, and I was like "Defeat my enemies." And he told me to stop playing so much Xbox. And so with my own research I'm now well on that path thanks to compound lifts.
I think finding the "real thing" is quite hard nowadays, with everything in life. Never just take what people say without question. It's hard to find a balance, as it's easy on one hand to think you're the smartest person in the world and know everything, then on the other hand it's easy to unquestionably follow a teacher or guru, literally or figuratively straight to hell.
But, as far as McDojo's specifically, my YMCA judo class wasn't bad, I still fall as taught in that class today. Not a perfect class, but compared to what else was around, especially the cool seeming "karate" classes in McDojo's I wanted to go to as a kid, in hindsight, the judo was a much better choice on my parents part.
Judo, I think it's a bit harder to McDojo, as tournaments are full contact and you'll know you suck if you suck at a tournament. My problem with tournaments was making weight, my diet changed for the worst coincidentally, and I basically am/was a late bloomer, so in my weight class I got put up against monsters. But regular competitions show you how you and your school compare, and I guess that's a benefit of it being a "sport" martial art. _________________ Too kawaii to live...
Too sugoi to die!
I'm kinda just wondering if everything in life is a scam. I've been learning this with personal trainers/fitness instructors. People sign up for "sport specific" training and they all get the same crap, usually throwing medicine balls, and a bunch of weird ab exercises.
I don't know, it was hard for me to fall for it, as the trainer asked what I wanted to do, expecting me to say tone up or burn fat, and I was like "Defeat my enemies." And he told me to stop playing so much Xbox. And so with my own research I'm now well on that path thanks to compound lifts.
I think finding the "real thing" is quite hard nowadays, with everything in life. Never just take what people say without question. It's hard to find a balance, as it's easy on one hand to think you're the smartest person in the world and know everything, then on the other hand it's easy to unquestionably follow a teacher or guru, literally or figuratively straight to hell.
But, as far as McDojo's specifically, my YMCA judo class wasn't bad, I still fall as taught in that class today. Not a perfect class, but compared to what else was around, especially the cool seeming "karate" classes in McDojo's I wanted to go to as a kid, in hindsight, the judo was a much better choice on my parents part.
Judo, I think it's a bit harder to McDojo, as tournaments are full contact and you'll know you suck if you suck at a tournament. My problem with tournaments was making weight, my diet changed for the worst coincidentally, and I basically am/was a late bloomer, so in my weight class I got put up against monsters. But regular competitions show you how you and your school compare, and I guess that's a benefit of it being a "sport" martial art.
I agree with every point you've made apart from the "Drug Test Your Trainer" article being quite good. Hmm. He firstly assumed everything everyone takes is cocaine without properly inspecting the substance, with a judgemental as hell "Drugs are bad mmkay?" (judgemental can also be seen when he talks about exotic dancers...) undertone, without knowing how much these people use to identify if it's healthy and occasional, or even if it has anything at all to do with their fitness training, or if it's a habit and destructive (although the encounters he's had does sound like destructive drug use, there's still no evidence that it is and the cases are purely anecdotal). He's just associating drugs = always bad yep (and even moreso that drugs = cocaine).
He then addresses this with "And others will quickly judge me for being judgmental and not even recognize the hypocrisy. Being judgmental IS wrong. So quit judging me on the judgement baloney. This isn’t about judgement. This is about discernment and discernment is necessary. " You can't say I'm judgemental because that's judging me and is hypocrisy, so I'm okay to be judgemental. ...Okay. He also tries to say he's not being judgemental, when it's in the entire undertone of the article given he has no evidence that these people are using drugs destructively, are advising their clients incorrectly due to drugs or even that their drug use has anything to do with their level of fitness and fitness career.
Drug abuse, by it's very nature, would be destructive to a personal trainer and harmful to their career, which I agree with. However, he isn't simply addressing drug abuse, but also use, which he opens admits ("The majority of professional fitness trainers are very decent people living drug-free lives. I’m talking about a very small minority who use and abuse drugs."), and talks about it in a very judgemental and anecdotal manner, which I don't like. (Don't even get me started on his Degree = Good Trainer implication ) _________________ Always accepting of PMs.
Joined: Apr 14, 2011 Age: 21 Posts: 1104 Location: United States
Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:04 am Post subject:
kittie wrote:
I gave up Martial Arts for this very reason. "McDojos" as you guys call them seem to be very common.
At the very first Karate place I tried, you got a "special gold badge" for sitting still for a minute. Apparently it showed mental focus. Hmmmm...
I think it is because of a change of mentality.
Before, you had to work hard like a dog. You were physically disciplined.
Now that it's children friendly, parents don't want to see their kids get poked with a bamboo stick if their foot is in the wrong direction or yelled at if they can't do 50 pushups. And they don't want to see their kids fail their test for their belts, even though they deserve to.
)
