NeantHumain
Phoenix
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Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 5119
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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 Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:37 am Post subject: Are You Man Enough? |
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For males with Asperger's syndrome, I think part of the problem is that some of us are not man enough; I don't mean this as an insult or criticism but as simple fact: Because of sexual selection, women desire a man who is, well, a man. Androgyny, effeminacy, and other qualities detract from a male's essential manliness and are like stink lines drawn from such a person to a woman.
Ask yourself this: When was the last time you had a cheeseburger? Had sex? Played in virile, manly sports like wrestling? Held a riffle and shot a deer? Drank a beer? Farted or belched loudly in the company of others? Left the toilet seat up? If not, what are you waiting for? |
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thewhitrbbit
Phoenix
Joined: May 31, 2012
Age: 27
Posts: 2142
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:39 am Post subject: |
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You do make a good point; but it can be a bit tricky.
Some of those things can back fire. Some women dislike guns and hunting, and farting in public can be viewed as gross. I've found it's usually done by guys in relationships already. Same as the toilet seat.
You do have a good point though; but I would focus more on the other qualities. A man is strong and confident. |
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edgewaters
hibernating
Joined: Aug 17, 2006
Age: 40
Posts: 2426
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:41 am Post subject: |
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Meh. I've got my reasons for having rejected that line of thought, here are a few of them:
- you can't do it better than those for whom it is natural
- maybe you could pass for a short while, but would you want to have to keep this act up for, say, 20 years? On a daily basis? Would you want to lose someone because you fooled them and then failed to be able to keep the mask from slipping?
- lesbians sometimes wish one of them had a penis 
- it makes you stick out sometimes, if you're not ashamed of it
Finally I think, there's a reason other guys try to shame and make fun of being like this. Could it be to benefit you? You'd have to be fairly naieve to think so. What I think it is, is that they want to prevent you from exhibiting these things so you can't steal their women. It's all competition and they have an easy and ready way to knock you out of the running, and that's to make you insecure about yourself and to try (unsuccesfully) to behave like them, which is unnatural to you and which you won't be able to do. They're probably also trying to make sure that when their women get sick of the belching and shooting deer, they won't come running to you.
In the wild, beta males pursue completely different strategies than alphas, and in many species, they are equally succesful (sometimes even more succesful) as the alphas. Example:
In the marine isopod Paracerceis sculpta, there are three discrete male morphologies. These are determined by a single allele change at one locus. The largest of the three males, the alpha males, defend harems of isopod females. The intermediate size male, the beta, mimics female morphology and behavior and the gamma males, the smallest of the three morphs, attempt to hide in large harems and not attract the attention of the alpha male(s). The larger the male, the slower it matures. But larger males, although they reach reproductive age later in life, live longer and therefore have more reproductively active years. In the paper I will summarize here, the authors demonstrate that each male morph enjoys equal mating success.
Male reproductive success in these isopods depends on many factors. Each male morph is able to sire roughly the same amount of offspring when isolated from other males. Differences in male reproductive success occur when males are mixed in the mating area, the spongocoel. For example if the spongocoel contains one alpha and one beta male, the beta males sires 60 percent of the offspring. If there is one alpha and a gamma male, the alpha sires 92 percent of the offspring. If there are 2 alpha males and three gamma males, each gamma males sires 33 1/3 percent of the offspring[i.e. the only ones who reproduce in this scenario are the 3 gammas!]. The authors give mating success for 14 different combinations of males in the paper (all the combinations they found in nature).
They sampled isopods from a natural population for a period of two years. They found that each male morph had, on average, equal mating success and the alleles that determined male morphology were in Hardy-Weinberg equilibrium (HW equilibrium is a measure of how alleles are distributed in a population.) In the paper they present a table showing how many spongocoels were sampled with respect to each different combination of males. The table also lists how many females were in each harem. To make a long story short: the numbers of males, combinations of males and numbers of females added up such that each male morph was equally reproductively successful. Below is a summary of some of the data:
male type mean (+/- se) # of matesnumber of males
--------- ------------------------ ---------------
alpha1.51 (+/- 0.08)452
beta1.35 (+/- 0.44)20
gamma1.37 (+/- 0.23)83
variance within types = 3.075
variance among types = 0.003
Although it appears alpha males have a higher mean # of mates, the difference is not significant (look at the standard errors in the beta and gamma males). Notice also that equal repro success does not mean equal frequency in the population; it only means that each male type is able to keep replacing itself in the population. In other words, if conditions stay the same, the ratio of alpha to beta to gamma males will stay 452:20:83.
http://www.holysmoke.org/cretins/evolutio.htm |
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PTSmorrow
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 14, 2011
Age: 54
Posts: 719
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:04 am Post subject: Re: Are You Man Enough? |
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| NeantHumain wrote: |
Ask yourself this: When was the last time you had a cheeseburger? Had sex? Played in virile, manly sports like wrestling? Held a riffle and shot a deer? Drank a beer? Farted or belched loudly in the company of others? Left the toilet seat up? If not, what are you waiting for? |
Throughout my life i had lots of sex/affairs, but that doesn't mean i would wrestle or shoot a deer, nor do i like beer or feel a need to fart or belch in public. But since this is my house, the toilet seats remain up! 
Your list includes some cliches, and women don't select a mate only by their sexual instincts, as the plurality of different individuals clearly shows. The preferences of women vary greatly, and also the other way around.
Currently it seems to be fashionable (and lucrative, at least for some authors,) to reduce people and their sex lives to the instincts of our distant ancestors by stating it would be still the same, but it isn't. Truth is, living beings are not a result of their genes but always interact with their environment, and this applies for plants and animals as well as for humans.
It's not survival of the fittest, but the "fittingest". We cannot reduce ourselves and our environment to the conditions of a hunter and gatherer society.
Honestly, i doubt that a woman who can be excited by the view of a wrestler would necessarily want to share her life with him. If she should need help with her computer, wrestling simply won't work. Furthermore, the farting, hunting, beer swallowing redneck is not every lady's type. |
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nostromo
Honk-honk Hippo
Joined: Mar 13, 2010
Age: 45
Posts: 3198
Location: At Festively Plump
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| I had a cheeseburger last night, a really good gourmet one with pickles, dijonaise etc. |
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Kurgan
I'm always right
Joined: Apr 07, 2012
Age: 24
Posts: 1681
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:43 am Post subject: Re: Are You Man Enough? |
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| NeantHumain wrote: |
Ask yourself this: When was the last time you had a cheeseburger? |
i don't like burgers.
September 2011. Sadly in our century, this is a more determining factor of manliness than muscles, testosterone levels or voice.
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Played in virile, manly sports like wrestling? |
Not since I was a kid. I do heavy compound exercises, though, which is quite masculine.
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Held a riffle and shot a deer? Drank a beer? Farted or belched loudly in the company of others? Left the toilet seat up? If not, what are you waiting for? |
I don't drink, I don't have a license to own a gun and farting in the present of others is extremely rude.
Given that most single Norwegian girls are head over heels in love with upper-class pretty boys who have daddy paying their bills and can't bench press an iPhone, I don't think my problem is lack of manliness. |
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bnky
Velociraptor
Joined: Nov 20, 2011
Posts: 479
Location: Kent, England
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:19 am Post subject: Re: Are You Man Enough? |
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| NeantHumain wrote: | | For males with Asperger's syndrome, I think part of the problem is ... |
Problem? What problem? I don't have a problem with not being able to attract women who're attracted to smelly, burping, animal killing, junkfood eating males. I see the fact (that those women keep away from me) as a bonus  |
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NeantHumain
Phoenix
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Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 5119
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| nostromo wrote: | | I had a cheeseburger last night, a really good gourmet one with pickles, dijonaise etc. |
WTF is dijonaise? Fufu cheeseburgers don't count!  |
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NeantHumain
Phoenix
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Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 5119
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Are You Man Enough? |
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| PTSmorrow wrote: | | Honestly, i doubt that a woman who can be excited by the view of a wrestler would necessarily want to share her life with him. If she should need help with her computer, wrestling simply won't work. |
Getting oiled down and wrasslin', man on man, is about as heterosexual as you can get. What woman wouldn't get turned on by that? Have you ever seen Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) fights? So straight you could confuse it for the foreplay of a gay porn. |
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echinopsis
Snowy Owl
Joined: Oct 04, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 129
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| i do like manly men, but in my opinion the things you mentioned do not make a man manly let alone attractive. anyone can eat a cheeseburger or drink a beer (in fact most 14yearold girls do) and farting is probably one of the most unsexy things there are. i couldnt care less about whether a guy does sports or not, i wouldnt be particularily attracted to someone by knowing who else he slept with and i definately wouldnt even slightly like someone who kills animals for fun. id rather define attractive manlyness as calm, independent, confident about his beliefs and decisions, not too chatty, rational, sensible and maybe a bit grumpy sometimes. in addition to that, being emotional when there is a reason for it isnt unmanly at all, it just means someones a normal, non-superficial person. |
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The_Face_of_Boo
A savage
Joined: Jun 17, 2010
Age: 31
Posts: 9282
Location: Beirut ,Lebanon
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| Want me to take off my pants? |
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HisDivineMajesty
Carolingian Emperor Extraordinaire
Joined: Feb 01, 2012
Posts: 1364
Location: Planet Earth
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| The_Face_of_Boo wrote: | | Want me to take off my pants? |
She might - the rest of us, not so much. 
This could very well be part of why I'm very unpopular with the ladies. I think women see me as a competitor rather than the prize. They ask me if I'm gay, they insult me, or they ignore me altogether. Indeed, my voice is rather unmanly, and I'm only now gaining some weight and building some muscles. What's most frustrating is that gay men have been interested in me much more than women. Then again, one or two is more than none. |
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mv
Protector of the Realm
Joined: Jun 18, 2010
Posts: 3131
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| NeantHumain wrote: | | nostromo wrote: | | I had a cheeseburger last night, a really good gourmet one with pickles, dijonaise etc. |
WTF is dijonaise? Fufu cheeseburgers don't count! |
Dijonaise is a spread that's a mix of dijon mustard and mayonnaise. Other than that, I got nuthin'. {'Cause I'm a woman.} |
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IlovemyAspie
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 08, 2012
Posts: 874
Location: On the brink....
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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The Aspie guy I like told me he was reading a book on quantum physics. Now I find that sexier than if he had told me he was reading the latest issue of fish and game. He doesn't watch sports, doesn't play sports and isn't interested in sports. Loves plants and is a nerd by standards but he's 100% man and he turns me on. And that's all I've got to say about that!  |
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brawnybalboa
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: May 11, 2012
Posts: 74
Location: Caerdydd, Cymru
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| IlovemyAspie wrote: | | The Aspie guy I like told me he was reading a book on quantum physics. Now I find that sexier than if he had told me he was reading the latest issue of fish and game. He doesn't watch sports, doesn't play sports and isn't interested in sports. He's a nerd by standards but he's 100% man and he turns me on. And that's all I've got to say about that! |
This goes to show that being the quintessential stereotypical alpha male does not mean attractiveness to the opposite gender, in the same manner than not all of us shall be attracted to the same type of woman.
Needless to say on the above list, sex, eating cheese burgers, shooting a rifle, playing manly sports etc. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. I play rugby often, I go out drinking and partying often, I have been in the right place at the right time to have some female company in the early hours. However even when ticking all those boxes, it does not make me gods gift (if not far from it!).
At the end of the day my aspie quirks and interests trump all of these. Along with all those "manly traits", things like being a Trekkie, a bit nerdy comes hand in hand |
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